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I want to talk about recent conflict on Pinnacle Islands in the far east

This is a discussion on I want to talk about recent conflict on Pinnacle Islands in the far east within the Geo-strategic Issues forum, part of the Global Defense & Military category; hi, I live in Hong Kong and recent issue between China and Japan has shaken the stability of the far ...


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Old September 20th, 2012   #1
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Smile I want to talk about recent conflict on Pinnacle Islands in the far east

hi, I live in Hong Kong and recent issue between China and Japan has shaken the stability of the far east region, and meanwhile China is expending their naval influence on every near by area, I think the deepest they get is Philippines for now, and is making people like me feeling uneasy, is like you can smell the gunpowder you know what i mean. recent info also suggested that the Chinese is mass producing their latest stealth jet (don't really know how good or bad though), I am talking in the number like a hundred may be 2, 4 aircraft carriers have been constructed, though they are really real real kind of a carriers, they are more Soviet/Russian kind, you know what I mean.

Ok, your head still has that bug, right, let me pull this one out for ya: I am not with them.

Carry on... so it almost seems like China is gonna do something to Japan, and you do know China has a lot of subs, the only question is, of course, America, so I would be staying tune to the situation.

the alarming thing is that China been doing a lot of reverse engineering, of course I know most of you realize that, but knowing they are really doing it, is another thing, the result is always wreaky and even laughable, but they are doing in a alarming pace.

so opinion, everyone?? would love to corrected since I am just a geek, am sensing some of you know the stuffs real well!! and another thing on this reverse engineering issue, it may seem small now, but imagine if they secretly selling them to terrorist groups in the middle east and North Korea a like, which they are doing it anyway, it can cause some serious problem, is like imagine you are a terrorist and you go shopping to get some rocket launcher and some jets (you never know) and you are looking them on a shelf, the post soviet or even leak American stuff would cost you $100,000 and the made in China one is $10,000, never mind it might blow in your face, which one would you the terrorist choose?? and if they have such ease in acquiring cheap hardware, that might in turns destabilized the Mid East, just saying
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Old September 20th, 2012   #2
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China doesnt do anything that isnt in China's interest. What could they possibly gain by selling military hardware to terrorist groups?

Besides there is so much hardware floating around in unstable 3rd world countries I'd say your concerns are groundless.
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Old September 20th, 2012   #3
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China doesnt do anything that isnt in China's interest. What could they possibly gain by selling military hardware to terrorist groups?

Besides there is so much hardware floating around in unstable 3rd world countries I'd say your concerns are groundless.
destabilizing middle east is China's interest, cause middle eastern countries luv to terrorize American and Great Britain, and the other allied nation. Chinese can't do it in the open, so they need somebody to do the dirty work.
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Old September 20th, 2012   #4
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I just hope the rest of population in HK have a better understanding of what is going on in the real world. Otherwise, it is just a big waste of resources.
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Old September 21st, 2012   #5
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destabilizing middle east is China's interest, cause middle eastern countries luv to terrorize American and Great Britain, and the other allied nation. Chinese can't do it in the open, so they need somebody to do the dirty work.
China imports oil and gas. LOTS of oil, & quite a lot of gas. The majority of its oil imports come from the Middle East. Ever heard the expression "cutting off one's nose to spite one's face"? That's what China would be doing by destabilising the Middle East.

China wants the Middle East to be stable & peaceful, so as not to endanger China's energy supplies. China also has problems with restive Muslim minorities within its own borders, & the mainly Muslim states of Central Asia on its western border. It even has a short border with Afghanistan. China is very, very interested in making sure this region is as stable as possible, & that Islamic terrorists are deprived of support of any kind.
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Old September 21st, 2012   #6
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China imports oil and gas. LOTS of oil, & quite a lot of gas. The majority of its oil imports come from the Middle East. Ever heard the expression "cutting off one's nose to spite one's face"? That's what China would be doing by destabilising the Middle East.

China wants the Middle East to be stable & peaceful, so as not to endanger China's energy supplies. China also has problems with restive Muslim minorities within its own borders, & the mainly Muslim states of Central Asia on its western border. It even has a short border with Afghanistan. China is very, very interested in making sure this region is as stable as possible, & that Islamic terrorists are deprived of support of any kind.
actually this is what I meant! i might have been wrong in the use of the word: Destabilize... let me restructure the confusion I caused; ok, Middle East hate the west, America one the number one hit list, getting good reliable American/European hardware are difficult and expansive, China one, easily available, cheap, probably give you discount, China need Middle East's oil supply, China knows the west oppose Islam, so China would do the opposite, accept them, be buddy with them, so they give China oil willing, again probably with a discount, while US need to grab that by force that in turn thermal the Islamic countries. When i said destabilizing I meant, giving the Middle East more strength and opportunities to get cranky with US, so I should say by "giving cheaper chinese made hardware to the Middle East DESTABILIZING the US Middle Eastern political climate, and US inland as well" than would in turn alter the balance of the world powers, and thats exactly what China wants, guys, the thing that spook me is that, if that do happening along that path, the most extreme result would be US would lose grip on the east and China would start eating Japan, North South Korea, Taiwan, worst the rest of Asia! do we want that??

apologize for the confusion, I sometimes give bad English, need to be more careful in the future
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Old September 22nd, 2012   #7
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destabilizing middle east is China's interest, cause middle eastern countries luv to terrorize American and Great Britain, and the other allied nation. Chinese can't do it in the open, so they need somebody to do the dirty work.
Why would they "destabilize" their own oil supply? They want "influence" not "destabilization". Also Western nations are huge economic partners with China. So again. Why?

Make no mistake. China's economic health is largely dependent on an uninterrupted flow of oil and mineral resources. They are the 2nd largest oil consumer in the world, and growing. Their recent economic slowdown was caused by rising oil prices. China's Leadership is not driven by any kind of ideology anymore. They are realists whom have a long term goal of being the dominant power in Asia and they know this is only going to happen by following the examples of western economies. Also they are not without their own domestic Fundamentalists troubles.

Why risk Billions to make thousands and why take such risks that would have such nasty repercussions?
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Old September 22nd, 2012   #8
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...China knows the west oppose Islam, so China would do the opposite, accept them, be buddy with them, so they give China oil willing, again probably with a discount, while US need to grab that by force that in turn thermal the Islamic countries. ...
None of this is true. The West in general doesn't give a damn about Islam, as long as Muslims don't cause trouble for the West. China, unlike most Western countries (but like Russia), has important regions within its borders where Muslims are indigenous, a majority of the population, resent Chinese rule, & where Islam is being used to rally that discontent. Being Islam-friendly is therefore not an option for China. Nobody sells oil at a discount unless they have to, or if they are strong & rich & wish to help a poor, weak, ally: China isn't poor & weak, & most oil sellers aren't strong & rich enough to give away money. The few that can afford to throw money away (e.g. Qatar & Saudi Arabia) certainly aren't going to help China.

The only country selling oil to China at a discount that I know of is Iran, & that's not to help China, but because it's finding it hard to sell oil because of sanctions, & has to sell cheap to get customers.

The Chinese economy currently depends on selling manufactured goods to Western countries, especially the USA. It knows that damaging the economies of its biggest customers is bad for China.
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Old September 22nd, 2012
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Old September 22nd, 2012   #9
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getting good reliable American/European hardware are difficult and expansive, China one, easily available, cheap, probably give you discoun, so I should say by "giving cheaper chinese made hardware to the Middle East DESTABILIZING the US Middle Eastern political climate,
What's "chinese hardware" got to do with anything ? The whole world is full of chinese made products regardless political climate.

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The Chinese economy currently depends on selling manufactured goods to Western countries, especially the USA. It knows that damaging the economies of its biggest customers is bad for China.
I don't know about that, but I do know that china is the most important export destinations for many countries including western countries(include serivce export, like tourism etc.) . And china's top export destinations except the US are all asian countries. So you might over estimated the importance of western market to china, and under estimated the importance of chinese market to west.

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Old September 23rd, 2012
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Old September 24th, 2012   #10
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I don't know about that, but I do know that china is the most important export destinations for many countries including western countries(include serivce export, like tourism etc.) . And china's top export destinations except the US are all asian countries. So you might over estimated the importance of western market to china, and under estimated the importance of chinese market to west.
China's exports to the USA in 2010 were worth $283 bn. The bilateral trade surplus was $181 bn. This trade is mostly for end use, i.e. most of what China exports to the US is consumed there, & vice-versa.

Exports to Hong Kong (treated separately in China's trade statistics) in 2010 were $218 bn, i.e. very similar to HK's total GDP. 95% of those were re-exported. The USA was the biggest destination for HK exports after China, & HK has a very large trade surplus with the USA. HK (like Singapore) is an entrepot: goods flow through it You need to analyse the flows, not stop with a crude bilateral trade figure. According to the US Dept. of Commerce, which IIRC takes account of exports passing through HK & other entrepots, China-US exports & surplus have been estimated at $365 bn & $273 bn, respectively.

Imports from Japan, Taiwan, S. Korea, Malaysia & Thaliand totalled $514 bn. Exports to those countries were half that. Oh dear! In fact, a very large proportion of the imports from these countries (except, perhaps, Malaysia & Thailand, despite the latter supplying many of the HDDs in PCs exported from China), are high-tech components which are incorporated into Chinese-assembled goods & re-exported - & mostly not back to the same countries, obviously. Looking at HK imports & re-exports the pattern is the same. Surplus with western countries (Germany being a rare exception), deficit with East & SE Asia & raw material suppliers such as Brazil, with most of the trade being to & from China.

China has a massive trade deficit with its neighbours, financed by exports to the west, & particularly the USA.

Now, about your claim that I've over-estimated the importance of the western market to China . . . .


All figures from Chinese, US & Hong Kong official data available online.
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Old September 24th, 2012   #11
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ok, you all got good point. but my first and original intention was to hear what your opinion on that Pinnacle Island, does any of you thing this thing is gonna blow wide open??

that get me thinking... you know stuff like Lenovo PC, I am concerned that would the Chinese put some dogie chipset there as their spy effort to all exported countries?? though of course I am fully aware CIA and NSA alike make their own chips and computers.

Last edited by OPSSG; October 21st, 2012 at 01:33 AM. Reason: Combined into 1 post
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