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Falklands tensions

This is a discussion on Falklands tensions within the Geo-strategic Issues forum, part of the Global Defense & Military category; Originally Posted by jaffo4011 apparently the uk is being reported to the un by those nice,peace loving Argentinians for'militarising'the falklands......... ...


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Old February 9th, 2012   #76
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Originally Posted by jaffo4011 View Post
apparently the uk is being reported to the un by those nice,peace loving Argentinians for'militarising'the falklands.........

now,why would they be doing that?....... nothing to do with them invading the islands without warning in 1982,closing their ports to falklands shipping and shortly to cut off the islands to routine air traffic from their own continent...all without any provocation whatsoever....;

thse brits really are over sensitive arent they?

perhaps closing off all of Argentina's ports airbases and airports to vessels and aircraft flying the national flag with the t45 and typhoons would be an appropriate response and give an indication of how isolating and humiliating it is to be picked on by a more powerful neighbour......
We are not closing their ports and airbases but ours to a certain flag which is our right to do but you are talking to close ours ports using military actions, we are no doing anything like that, again we are not deciding who goes to their ports but ours, is that ilegal in any way?.
our main trade partner is brazil, are you going to shoot asters to a brazilian planes trying to reach one of our airports? please...
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Old February 9th, 2012   #77
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He wasn't actually suggesting doing that. He was just making the comparison that for the UK to do that would be similar to what Argentina could to to the Falklands people. It is how they feel they are being picked on by the Argentinians who are a regional power when compared to the Falklands. If the UK did what he suggests it would be similar. A bigger more powerful group asserting the unwanted influence over another.

Can you see the similarities?

I suspect he was making a point rather than suggesting a course of action.
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Old February 10th, 2012   #78
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I suspect he was making a point rather than suggesting a course of action.
Then he shouldn't have used the term 'would be an appropriate response' in his post, IMO its an extremely poor comparison as neither actions are comparable.

As to the isolation issue, its nothing new. The trade bloc affects a handful of fishing vessels (Which are mostly Spanish owned) and the 'law' itself can be avoided anyway by simply hoising the Red Ensign before making port.
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Old February 10th, 2012   #79
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We are not closing their ports and airbases but ours to a certain flag which is our right to do but you are talking to close ours ports using military actions, we are no doing anything like that, again we are not deciding who goes to their ports but ours, is that ilegal in any way?.
our main trade partner is brazil, are you going to shoot asters to a brazilian planes trying to reach one of our airports? please...
No UK poster is suggesting any such thing, and I don't think anyone of us wants a repeat of the 1982 conflict. What we're all baffled about in the UK is why Argentina is repeating the pattern of deliberate challenges and provocations that preceded the 1982 invasion, and then goes running to the UN to protest that we have replaced a standing patrol on schedule as if this were an act of aggression.

Argentina's best approach remains diplomacy - sit around the table, talk about getting involved in the oil extraction, refining the results - establishing warmer ties with the Islands and the Islanders.

We can't cede them to Argentina - not after fighting a war - it'd be politically totally unacceptable to any UK leader.

Trade, peaceful interaction, a softer approach, and patience...

Ian
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Old February 10th, 2012   #80
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We can't cede them to Argentina - not after fighting a war - it'd be politically totally unacceptable to any UK leader.

It would also be completely unacceptable to the people of the Falkland Islands themselves. Who overwhelmingly consider them selves to be British
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Old February 10th, 2012   #81
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It would also be completely unacceptable to the people of the Falkland Islands themselves. Who overwhelmingly consider them selves to be British
Trade, peaceful interaction, a softer approach, and patience...
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Old February 10th, 2012   #82
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the fact the 3000 people who live in the falklands are British going back many generations and over 170+ years its there home, this doesnt mean any thing to Argentina its all about money, .
It's not all about money, & it never has been. Oil is now an issue, but for many years Argentina pushed its claim despite the expectation that the Falklands would cost it money if ceded. Before 1982, Argentina provided some indirect subsidies to the islanders, e.g. by providing them with subsidised flights to Argentina - their only air link to the rest of the world at the time.
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Old February 10th, 2012   #83
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It's not all about money, & it never has been. Oil is now an issue, but for many years Argentina pushed its claim despite the expectation that the Falklands would cost it money if ceded. Before 1982, Argentina provided some indirect subsidies to the islanders, e.g. by providing them with subsidised flights to Argentina - their only air link to the rest of the world at the time.
Hi swerve , i did not mean its always been about the money but the recent up scale in Argentinas effort to bully the islanders , must have some thing to do with the possible rich oil feilds and the possiblity of other countries having a stake in them example the US, this would make the argument more complicated from there point of view, and they also want to show there strength to the rest of South America,
Yes they could of provided subsidies to the islanders , flights etc before 82, but not long later they invaded. if the island was populated by Argentinian citizens for the last 170+ years there would not be a case for the British goverment to argue but its not the islanders are British and British by choice the falklands is there home , and lets face it theres easier places to live but there they are, they want to live in peace but conflict has been forced on them in the past, and i for one can understand why they dont want to live under the control of the Argentinian goverment which as had a colourful history of military repression, coups etc but this is just my opinon,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
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Old February 10th, 2012   #84
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Gentlemen,
I have always sided with the Brits in this dispute, still I think that the arguments and are strikingly similar on both sides. When Brits are talking about Argie aggression, they are considering 1982 but when Argies talk about Brits` agression they have in mind not only the Falkland situation but also the events in Rio de La Plata in 1806-1807. Then we have the common accusations of colonialism, and later the accusations that the other side is distracting the attention from the severe economic problems in the country, etc.
The really strong point of Britain is the right of self determination. And the military superiority, of course. The last one is usually abouth 90% of the judicial, historic and other argument.
hi exprivate , i have got to say if every country still wanted to fight the old wars of hundreds of years ago the world would be at war constantly,
I think theres abit of difference between a conflict 30 years ago and 205-6 years ago, and remember we didnt even want the 82 falklands conflict , it was forced on to us by Argentina, i think if thats what Argentina is thinking then they need to let it go, as old enemies can become friends look at the UK we fought wars with france for 100s of years but we are at peace and are close friends and allies same with Germany these are just an example, the world has moved on,,,,,,,
Argentina as approached this totaly the wrong way ,Its tried to show its teeth when talking about it could of worked out better, But the UK will never back down to a bully not now not ever......

Last edited by Astute; February 10th, 2012 at 02:06 PM.
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Old February 10th, 2012   #85
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Astute,
I totally agree with you on that. War is the worst solution, still sometimes it is inevitable. I`m sure this time it won`t be a solution to this problem at all.
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Old February 10th, 2012   #86
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And today, very strangely, the Argentinian foreign minister waved a photograph of a submarine and claimed the Vanguard was in the South Atlantic.

I despair.
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Old February 10th, 2012   #87
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hi exprivate , i have got to say if every country still wanted to fight the old wars of hundreds of years ago the world would be at war constantly,
I think theres abit of difference between a conflict 30 years ago and 205-6 years ago, and remember we didnt even want the 82 falklands conflict , it was forced on to us by Argentina, i think if thats what Argentina is thinking then they need to let it go, as old enemies can become friends look at the UK we fought wars with france for 100s of years but we are at peace and are close friends and allies same with Germany these are just an example, the world has moved on,,,,,,,
Argentina as approached this totaly the wrong way ,Its tried to show its teeth when talking about it could of worked out better, But the UK will never back down to a bully not now not ever......
The sad but glaring truth is through every one on this thread has acted responsibly and used reasonable and logical arguments about this situation in the South Atlantic, this rational approach does not apply for this situation and will not work. The single issue that cannot ever be approached rationally and cannot be negotiated away reasonably is something deeper and completely irrational. And now I will tell you what it is.

Every nation, without exception, is composed of ideas which are in turn are composed partly of historical facts and partly of myths. There is no exception to this rule for any people or for any country at any time though many will do everything they can to deny that their national ideality is partly composed of nothing but myths. Some of the myths might even be positive in effect and represent something, that they as a people, wish to aspire to but just as likely it can be soothing negative such as an injustice that needs to be resolved differently next time.

In Argentina they have been telling their beautiful sweet innocent little children for generations that the islands are part of their country and that they have as a nation suffered a great injustice which will someday be corrected and then made right. They have not only adopted this myth into their national identity but into their personal identity’s as well. The things you first learn as a child are the things you build your own personal world view upon. The earlier you are taught that an idea is “an absolute undeniable truth” the more tightly you will hang on to that idea, thus becoming central to whom you are. For not to do so, threatens all that which you think you know and all what that you think you are. This is a place nobody wants to go.

The common reaction to anything that threatens your world view also threatens your ideality. People will go to extreme lengths to preserve the integrity of their ideality, and to keep their self-image whole and secure. Violence is not to be unexpected. No amount of reason or logic can persuade them to reexamine their core beliefs and why they have them, be they based upon facts or on myths if they are central enough. This is the most common of all human traits which have caused more unnecessary death and pain in the world than any other factor in all of human history.

It is very rare for anyone to ever gain sufficient insight or even to think that they need to, to cause them to reexamine their own ideality and then to reconstruct their ideality based on more rational precepts than those that are tolled to us as children. But even if you go through the effort there is no guarantee that you can successfully complete the process and become truly rational at all times and on all subjects.

The only solutions to the Falkland problem is for the Argentineans to stop passing on this myth to their children but I do not see that happing because Argentina has never suffered a disaster great enough to make them reexamine this core belief.

My God help us all.
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Old February 10th, 2012   #88
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And today, very strangely, the Argentinian foreign minister waved a photograph of a submarine and claimed the Vanguard was in the South Atlantic.

I despair.
Of course, the UK has been called the 'aggressor' in this instance when AFAIK the sub which will be going to the Falklands is a Trafalgar class sub and NOT a Vanguard class.

I don't feel I need to point out the critical difference between those 2 submarines, but if the UK is the aggressor, why are the Argentinians throwing around wild claims about the UK deploying nuclear weapons in the area when they aren't?

It is truely bizarre, if there is one thing the UK would not do, it would be to deploy a Vanguard SSBN around the Falklands and allow the media to find out (i add the media point because nobody hear can truely say there isn't one nearby)
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Old February 10th, 2012   #89
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And today, very strangely, the Argentinian foreign minister waved a photograph of a submarine and claimed the Vanguard was in the South Atlantic.

I despair.
And of course Britain really would take a highly valuable strategic asset holding a high percentage of our nuclear deterrent and send it away from the well defended bastion areas it usually patrols in, into an area with little friendly support.

There's "Jumping the Shark" and then there's this.
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Old February 10th, 2012   #90
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OMG! The Brits are invading continental Argentina!
'UK wants to see if we are tempted to take arms,' Puricelli - BuenosAiresHerald.com
He obviously stopped the rose pills.
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