Containers on 5 Ton trucks

Quick questions guys. Are ISO containers ever seen on US military 5ton trucks? Example, like the M923 5 ton trucks. if not is it possible to put one on it? I know there are many sizes. Links to pics would be very appreciative. Thanks.
 

.pt

New Member
I don´t think Us tonnes are the same as metric tonnes (100 kg), but if you are talking about standard maritime containers, ie, 20 ft containers and 40 ft containers, each weighing (loaded) respectively up to 20/21 ton and 35/45 ton, i think if not in size, at least in weight Us military 5 ton trucks couldn´t carry these..but perhaps there other types of containers i dont know about.
.pt
 

.pt

New Member
First one correction on my earlier post; 1 metric ton is 1000 kg, not 100 kg.
After seeing the picture, that container did not seem a standard container, but rather some kind of military container, i doubt it´s standard in commercial terms, but again, i´m not a specialist on the matter. in that case ISO standards would not apply. also, when you say 5 Ton, you mean payload or GWT of the vehicle, and are your tons (US) the same as metric tons?
the tractor you mentioned, i don ´t know it´s specifications, but since its a diferent code, perhaps it´s rated at more tonnage???
Also, relatively, even if the vehicle is not rated to pull or transport a given weight, it´s not impossible to tow or transport an excessive weight, if the engine can cope. Now if it´s safe or legal, it´s a different issue.
I don´t know much about US military trucks and weight regulations, but regarding European commercial trucks and permited weights i can help you.
Generally in EU countries, and EFTA countries, heavy commercial trucks, rigid or tractor+trailer units have a maximum Gross weight of 40 tons. for the most common type, tractor+trailer units this mean usually a payload of about 24 25 tons, leaving a tare weight of about 16-15 tons for the tractor+trailor. this aplies to all types of trailer, be it general cargo, refrigerated trailers, tankers, ADR vehicles, etc. Don´t know if this also aplies to military vehicles, or not, in all countries mentioned.
Hope i helped.
.pt
 
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  • #5
Thanks for your reply. I think I´small ISO containers would not be a problem. There are many variants. I'm just trying to get info as I am trying to model one with together with a container pully a CLT dolly.
 

FutureTank

Banned Member
Thanks for the reply. Well it seems wierd that the M923 would not make it as I have seen a m931 tractor pull a heavy trailer behind it, and an empty trailer weighs more than 5ton.:confused:

BTW I managed to find this on the net:

http://data3.primeportal.net/trucks/don_busack/m923a2/images/m923a2_04_of_21.jpg

Not axactly the type of container I was looking for but something of this size but ribbed shaped.
The photo shows a prefab used by support units. Its dismountable.

The US Army does have trailers that handle standard shipping 20'x40' containers only because the US Navy insists on them.
Here http://www.ferret.com.au/articles/z1/view.asp?id=2476 is an interesting article for LCS.
 

PirateJohn

New Member
Interesting thread. I was doing a little research on ISO containers on trucks myself and ran across this one.

I think that the question of "can a truck carry an ISO container" has to be qualified. I'm not sure off hand what the tare (empty) weight of a standard 20 ft. container is but that's a starting point. What they call a 5 ton truck in US service could easily handle an EMPTY container, or tow a trailer with an EMPTY container.

Of course, an empty container isn't much use to anyone. :)

If you run over to the Oshkosh Truck site at http://www.oshkoshtruckcorporation.com/ and poke around a little bit I think that you will find that their HEMTT trucks (fairly exotic 8x8 vehicles) in the Load Handling configuration (that's with a Tiphook lift for loading and unloading ISO containers) has an empty weight of 36,000 lbs. and a loaded weight of 66,000 lbs., so roughly it can handle a 30,000 lb. (15 US tons) cargo.

That's not a whole lot.

In order to get up to a 20 ton plus cargo weight you need to go to the Oshkosh PLS, which has 5 axles, all of which drive.

Moral of the story: I think that a 5 ton truck in US service is a 3 axle truck. *IF* you could safely overload it a bit you still would have some problems with having too much weight on the front axle to do much in the way of meaningful transportation.

In the States, for commercial trucks, the Feds look at three things: overall weight (usually limited to 40 tons), axle weights (which can vary from state to state as a practical matter), and the Bridge Formula, which is a mathematical formula that basically encourages you to spread the weight out or add axles. This is why you often see multi-axle trucks and trailers with sliding axles - so that you can adjust your Bridge Formula numbers.

And 20 ft. ISO containers are notoriously tricky to get the weights correct on. I noticed on a recent trip to New Orleans that most of the new trailer chassis for 20 ft. containers are actually longer than they used to be. That's so they can spread the weight out and satisfy some law somewhere (Federal, State, local roads - who knows).

In the States trucks with two front axles are very rare. That also makes it tough to legally carry anything that heavy without overloading something on a "straight truck" (non-articulating lorry for you Brits).

All of which being a bit of a moot point if we are talking about strictly military applications. While the US military tries to comply with this stuff in order to humor our various state governements, as a practical matter they haul things like tanks under conditions that would be illegal for a civilian contractor.

So I think that the issue of "can you" haul an ISO container is more along the lines of how heavy is it, do you want to install a couple of tons of unloading equipment on the truck, how tall will it be (a standard container is 8 ft. tall if I remember correctly and on a tall truck you may have trouble staying under the US legal height of 13'6" (a lot fo Europeans can go taller, btw), and so forth.

Comments? Like I said, it's an interesting thread.
 
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  • #8
Interesting thread. I was doing a little research on ISO containers on trucks myself and ran across this one.

I think that the question of "can a truck carry an ISO container" has to be qualified. I'm not sure off hand what the tare (empty) weight of a standard 20 ft. container is but that's a starting point. What they call a 5 ton truck in US service could easily handle an EMPTY container, or tow a trailer with an EMPTY container.

Of course, an empty container isn't much use to anyone. :)

If you run over to the Oshkosh Truck site at http://www.oshkoshtruckcorporation.com/ and poke around a little bit I think that you will find that their HEMTT trucks (fairly exotic 8x8 vehicles) in the Load Handling configuration (that's with a Tiphook lift for loading and unloading ISO containers) has an empty weight of 36,000 lbs. and a loaded weight of 66,000 lbs., so roughly it can handle a 30,000 lb. (15 US tons) cargo.

That's not a whole lot.

In order to get up to a 20 ton plus cargo weight you need to go to the Oshkosh PLS, which has 5 axles, all of which drive.

Moral of the story: I think that a 5 ton truck in US service is a 3 axle truck. *IF* you could safely overload it a bit you still would have some problems with having too much weight on the front axle to do much in the way of meaningful transportation.

In the States, for commercial trucks, the Feds look at three things: overall weight (usually limited to 40 tons), axle weights (which can vary from state to state as a practical matter), and the Bridge Formula, which is a mathematical formula that basically encourages you to spread the weight out or add axles. This is why you often see multi-axle trucks and trailers with sliding axles - so that you can adjust your Bridge Formula numbers.

And 20 ft. ISO containers are notoriously tricky to get the weights correct on. I noticed on a recent trip to New Orleans that most of the new trailer chassis for 20 ft. containers are actually longer than they used to be. That's so they can spread the weight out and satisfy some law somewhere (Federal, State, local roads - who knows).

In the States trucks with two front axles are very rare. That also makes it tough to legally carry anything that heavy without overloading something on a "straight truck" (non-articulating lorry for you Brits).

All of which being a bit of a moot point if we are talking about strictly military applications. While the US military tries to comply with this stuff in order to humor our various state governements, as a practical matter they haul things like tanks under conditions that would be illegal for a civilian contractor.

So I think that the issue of "can you" haul an ISO container is more along the lines of how heavy is it, do you want to install a couple of tons of unloading equipment on the truck, how tall will it be (a standard container is 8 ft. tall if I remember correctly and on a tall truck you may have trouble staying under the US legal height of 13'6" (a lot fo Europeans can go taller, btw), and so forth.

Comments? Like I said, it's an interesting thread.
Thank you so much for that info. This helped immensely. The reason why I asked this was because I cam a modeller, who builds military vehicles and was trying to model something of this nature. So I needed the info so as to not over do the realism of the real life situations. I am grateful you and the others. :)
 

FutureTank

Banned Member
amateurs study tactics, professionals study logistics

I actually looked into this a couple of years ago.
There were various programms to put DoD logistic standards in sync with ISO in the 80s which were supposed to be in effect in the 90s. What happened however is that due to budget cuts after end of CW much 'standard load' equipment was retained. Sometimes this was placed into 'cradles' to enable standard lading into aircraft and naval vessels, including contractor vessels.

The US DoD is very difficult to get around because it is so large and the issue of logistics is a Joint undertaking. Suggest you start at the top and go to Joint Logistics Command.
 

PirateJohn

New Member
Just take a look at the Stewart and Stevenson FMTV site, one of the FMTV models is specifically designed for carrying containers.

http://www.ssss.com/Services/Products/TacticalVehicles/FMTV/?pm=301

http://www.ssss.com/NR/rdonlyres/99CE7C5A-9C4F-41B4-B83B-0295A089AB40/0/FMTVLHSbrochure.pdf
The S&S truck has a payload of less than 8 tons.

Also notice that the Oshkosh offerings at

http://www.oshkoshtruck.com/defense/products~pls~home.cfm#

are offering the Tiphook method of attachment to ISO containers as well as to a variety of other containers and work platforms. That involves welding a bar across the face of the ISO container and the truck hooks to that bar. The Stewart and Stevenson offering, on the other hand, is using something similar to the Stellar Spider ( http://www.stellar-industries.com/pages/specialappshook.htm ) to lift unmodified ISO containers. Neither method being an overwhelming big deal (I suspect that you could change them in the field if you had to) but which illustrates the lack of uniformity even within something like the US Army.

FWIW I have been looking at these systems for a possible contruction project in a remote area rather than a military application.
 

FutureTank

Banned Member
The SS are what they are, light tactical trucks. There is no need to take a cargo container into the tactical areas. When I used to have to bring in 20foot containers years ago, the trucks werer 8ton at least (flatbad). For a 40footer you need a proper truck :)
For perspective, in trucking terms a 5t vehicle is a bit like a sedan for a bus driver :)
 

Wooki

Defense Professional
Verified Defense Pro
Interesting thread. I was doing a little research on ISO containers on trucks myself and ran across this one.

I think that the question of "can a truck carry an ISO container" has to be qualified. I'm not sure off hand what the tare (empty) weight of a standard 20 ft. container is but that's a starting point. What they call a 5 ton truck in US service could easily handle an EMPTY container, or tow a trailer with an EMPTY container.

Of course, an empty container isn't much use to anyone. :)
MT weight for a TEU is 2 tonnes, 4 tonnes for an FEU. The US military use 14 foot containers on the OTC PLS.

Rem; most containers never reach their full capacity e.g. you can move a loaded TEU with a ten tonne forklift using a dolly system.

cheers

w
 
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  • #15
MT weight for a TEU is 2 tonnes, 4 tonnes for an FEU. The US military use 14 foot containers on the OTC PLS.

Rem; most containers never reach their full capacity e.g. you can move a loaded TEU with a ten tonne forklift using a dolly system.

cheers

w
...a dolly system you say??? Something like what I've built??

 

Wooki

Defense Professional
Verified Defense Pro
...a dolly system you say??? Something like what I've built??

Yes, But there are easier ways to do it then that depicted. Your model would have huge stress loads, is heavy and is way too complicated (no offense).

The existing dolly systems use two wheels that fit directly into the twist lock. essentially it is just a wheel with a 5 inch axle. You use the fork lift to lift one end of the container and then fix the wheels onto the twistlocks, lock them in place and then lower that end. Move the fork lift around to the other end, lift 3 inches and take the box away.

The corner of the container can carry 400tons, so the dolly system described above uses the frame work of the container for strength.

I guess you could do the same sort of thing with a tow truck and a spreader with two twist lock attachments. But you still need a jacking system ( fork lift tynes) to get the lip of the box up off the ground and attach the wheels.

cheers

W
 
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