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CANADA / NATO and 2% of GDP Budget

This is a discussion on CANADA / NATO and 2% of GDP Budget within the Geo-strategic Issues forum, part of the Global Defense & Military category; At this rate the Canadian army will be outclassed by there WWI predecessors in a few years. All well and ...


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Old March 23rd, 2017   #46
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At this rate the Canadian army will be outclassed by there WWI predecessors in a few years.

All well and good (well, not really) to send loads of men and women over seas on missions to make Canada look like it's doing the heavy lifting, Not so good when they arent equipped with the proper offensive and defensive equipment to make them a credible force that can actually fit into a battle force rather then get in the way.
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Old March 23rd, 2017   #47
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Originally Posted by chrislee View Post
James Bezan, Canadian politician and official Opposition Critic for National Defence says 2017 Federal Budget is ‘bad news’ for the Canadian Armed Forces. The budget doesn`t contain any references to increased defence spending to meet targets set by NATO.
Well that'd be the pot calling the kettle black. One side is as equally bad as the other. Both as useful as nipples on a bull or an electric coat hanger.
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Old March 23rd, 2017   #48
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Its a fair point that the Conversatives have screwed DND from time to time but they managed a few decent acquisitions during their last time in office (C-17s, C-130Js, CH-147s and Leo 2s. Contrast that with the Liberals E101 cancellation and CH-148 Cyclone, their initial troop commitments to Afghanistan with our troops mostly devoid of important and necessary kit, and now the interim SH purchase. The recent budget will now postpone $8.5 billion in defence spending until 2035! They might be as useful as nipple on a bull but they produce less bullshit than Liberals.
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Old March 23rd, 2017   #49
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The current budget for the defence is just a disgrace. Already the term leaner and more agile is a tell tale sign. How much leaner can we get our infantry battalions are each under strength by a coy, they have no weapons details now, no mortars or anti-tank. Our navy lacks crews for a third of its ships. While the air force lacks air crews and maintenance personal by 20 to 40 percent depending on the occupation. Our troops don't even have adequate boots after 10 odd years of bs. There is no ammo to train, no nvg, no explosives, and outside trade qualification courses hardly anything.

They still have not brought back life time pension for those who already suffered so much. Even though they said they would . Instead of increasing the naval building budget they differed 8 billion in capital to 2035.

I know the liberal party of Canada had always seen defence spending politely said "optional" but this is ridiculous. It just sad really.
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Old March 26th, 2017   #50
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The French chief of defense has called on the country to inject from next year an extra €10 billion (U.S. $10.8 billion) in military spending, a funding boost that would reach NATO's budget target of 2 percent of gross domestic product by 2022.

Army Gen. Pierre de Villiers insisted France hit that budgetary target by 2022 rather than 2025, as the security threat is complex and rising, and because the services are quickly wearing out equipment due to intense operations, which will last for “a very long time.”
France would reach NATO budget target under top military officer's plan
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Old March 31st, 2017   #51
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The liberals have deferred more than $8 billion in defence spending out as far as 2035. Where does that signal to our allies in NATO, and specifically the USA, that we are committed to the Alliance?

Tillerson to Push NATO Allies on Military Spending, Press Russia on Ukraine

Something tells me that Mr. Tillerson will mention Canada and its poor performance as of late in helping to carry our fair share today at the NATO meeting in Brussels.
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Old March 31st, 2017   #52
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Originally Posted by Novascotiaboy View Post
The liberals have deferred more than $8 billion in defence spending out as far as 2035. Where does that signal to our allies in NATO, and specifically the USA, that we are committed to the Alliance?

Tillerson to Push NATO Allies on Military Spending, Press Russia on Ukraine

Something tells me that Mr. Tillerson will mention Canada and its poor performance as of late in helping to carry our fair share today at the NATO meeting in Brussels.
More likely this important issue will get by-passed due to all the drama going on with Trump and the Russian business!
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Old March 31st, 2017   #53
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In my teens I watched as the clapped out rusted remnants of 1960' and 50's purchases were replaced with new modern kit for all three services. Today 30 plus years on we are back in the same situation across the board.

Having spent this same time in a position to manage an organization that was equipment dependent I am very familiar with how fast an infrastructure deficit can be created from underfunding. With adequate financial resources and a plan that gets stuck with a functioning serviceable force can be fielded. But when the plan and the funding both go sideways then this is what happens.

IMHO we are headed to a point that if we had a direct cross border threat Canada would be virtually free for the taking. Thankfully our dollar is lower than the US dollar so we are a benefit to the Americans right now.

Not that I am a war monger but this country, its people and its elected tards need a wake up call of a significant proportion. We have lived for far too long without realizing why a strong defence is necessary. By this statement I am in no way lessoning the loss of those who have served this country and given the ultimate sacrifice in places around the world, most recently our sons and daughters killed and wounded in Afghanistan, but without a real and present threat this is what happens. The beating of the drum is loud in Europe and is beginning to be well and truly heard but here our so called leader has decided to pull a play from his dads playbook. We are a rich country we can afford to defend ourselves. We can afford to equip those who serve with good equipment.

I hope some nut bar in a far away piece of dirt doesn't do something really stupid but maybe we need it to happen.

So endeth the rant for the day. Its been one of those.
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Old March 31st, 2017   #54
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I hear you loud and clear but I am one of the few. As I have said before our current electorate put the POS junior in as PM. Compare the electorate today with that of 30 years ago. Today we have a collection of multicultural whining lefturds who will likely keep the wuss in office for a decade at least. I was hoping Trump might pressure him to make some improvements but the shitstorm he has created has deverted him to survival mode.

As for the Europeans, they weren't much different from us until Putin started his adventures. They got woken up rather abruptly. Only the US can push Canada into action by threatening economic consequences for ignoring defence obligations.
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Old March 31st, 2017   #55
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It never ceases to amaze me how Canadian politicians can select senior career CAF officers and transform them into total upchucking baphoons which is what the current chief of defence staff appears to be if he actually believes our current defence obligations are properly funded and junior's promises of better days ahead are to be believed. How this guy can go to a NATO meeting with a straight face is amazing after his comments. Yes the procurement system sucks so fix it and get the necessary kit which of course won't happen.

https://www.sudbury.com/national/top...g-delay-576118

Junior continues to spout off on how Canada punches above its weight and that the US's NATO criticisms are for European members. Hopefully there is a forceful US response to junior's comment. If not, junior will have a ticket to bug out on any increases to our defence commitments.
PM sticks to his guns amid fresh calls from U.S. for NATO allies to spend more | National Newswatch

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Old April 14th, 2017   #56
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The Canadian senate (unelected and pretty much useless) was just released their report on the Canadian military. Two unsurprising observations, the forces are underfunded, and our Parliament ( elected and pretty much useless as well) will not act on the report any time soon.

IN THE NEWS | FrontLine Defence
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Old May 3rd, 2017   #57
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Sajan is to give a speech today about new funding for the CAF. Likely all smoke and mirrors to divert attention from his current difficulties.
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Old May 3rd, 2017   #58
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Sajan is to give a speech today about new funding for the CAF. Likely all smoke and mirrors to divert attention from his current difficulties.
I am not sure how much hearsay is in this article but seems more like an intentional leak to a reporter. Overall the article sounds about right, "Honestly we had every intention of supplying more kit by than those dastardly x,y,z corned us in this position." Baseline defence spending is not enough for the Canadian Forces as is let alone for the procurement we have now, to allow even a most basic defence of the Canadian proper. I think the white paper will admit to this more or less, but then be promptly forgotten about soon after.

Sajjan to lower expectations for future military purchases - The Globe and Mail
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Old May 3rd, 2017   #59
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Sadly true I think. I will wait until I get a report on what he actually says before commenting further.
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Old May 3rd, 2017   #60
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Sadly true I think. I will wait until I get a report on what he actually says before commenting further.
https://www.canada.ca/en/department-.../news/2017/05/

It appears the government is at least willing to recognize the chronic under funding of the forces, and he actually labeled specific things like air defence and helo mlu. Time will tell really if the defence review shows any real changes. For once I'm some what hopeful funding issues will final get the attention they deserve.
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