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Ambitious modernization plan of the Bangladeshi Military

This is a discussion on Ambitious modernization plan of the Bangladeshi Military within the Geo-strategic Issues forum, part of the Global Defense & Military category; They will replace the older types, or serve along side them?...


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Old February 6th, 2011   #16
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They will replace the older types, or serve along side them?
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Old February 10th, 2011   #17
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What could help the BAF become one of the most potent airforces?

Hi guys as a Bangladeshi i must say i'm definitely proud of what most the BAF is doing right now, but seriously, why do most of the airforces always think along the same established rules of defence/attack.

Frankly, if we were to ever face a military offensive it would be India and Mynamar only and next if at all the Chinese(i.e. if they go completely mad and invade eastern India in a week).

Now lets look at our bigger neighbour - India, its going in fast and hard for the most robust weapons available and i'm no military expert but i have been tracking and reading most of the notable military advanced weapons and weapon systems in the world and also the most recent military conflicts. If we were to go into a faceoff with a country like India then i think these few things will help:

1. Get the most advanced Early Warning Systems and Electronic counter measuer capabilities - the current air defence systems are a move in the right direction.

2. How to thwart an advanced fast moving attack - i think none at the moment is present or even being considered coz i seriously doubt the capability of the mig29's we got. I would suggest a mix of multi-role fighter jets,interceptors and fast attack helicopters like the cobras and thats because we barely have much air space or the monetary capability.

3. Do we have enough ground assets to stop or defend against the giant range of Indian missiles, fast moving tanks and attack helicopters - go read what the Syrians did to Israelis during the wars fought over Lebanon.

Like what you are reading? then now lets move onto Myanmar, what they got maybe a few Russian and Chinese weapons. So lets see what we can do to counter any threat from them:

1. Our Navy dosen't pose any kind of credible threat to Mynmar's which explains their bold move to carry out exploration work just within visible range of our shores. Here the key is not to actually attack but to have the capability which is more than enough to scare your opponent. I guess a combination of Iranian tiny sub-marines and corvettes could easily scare the shit out of their navy, mainly coz they always pack a good punch of anti-ship missiles and they move fast(due to their small size/wt.).

2. Again the airforce and in this case i can't help it but mention that we have to have something beside the aging old mig29's and i mean J-10 and not FC-1 and that is primarily because we don't want even these planes to be repaired with spares from another neighbouring country. Given we get the right negotiations on the table, Bangladesh could become launch customers and push the Chinese to give more techinical assistance/know-how to atleast repair the jets ourselves. This way both Myanmar and India would get a clear message that incase things get crazy here we can fix our planes ourselves and fight 24/7 and thats going to be nightmare for any army or airforce.

3. If it were to me , i feel no use of large and heavy tanks at all. Look around you in Bangladesh and even the border areas, we have large swathes of forestland and rivers or canals and lakes, we definitely need a smart engineering corps and fast moving armoured cavalry divisions and that means fast moving tiny attack choppers, smaller fast moving armoured vehicles be it IFV's or Tanks. I have to stress again that it should not be mandatory to always have heavy armour many times in Aviation history speed has played a large role and even if you have something with heavy armour it will only be sitting ducks for things like mig-35 or suk-30MKI and lastly the scarier PAK-FA or F22 & F35.

Even the navies of today have learn't that mad Iranian fast attack tiny boats with missiles can easily scare large destroyers and that is because of their speed to come fast, hit and run. Iraqis did a major mess with their inventory during the last war in Iraq. The most amount of threat nowadays is an enemy out of sight that attacks from a very far off and in a funny way mostly from the air.

4. Ok guys i'm going to finish this but don't laugh now!!, just bare with me, do we have anything next to a UAV or atleast a flying toy. Mind you this will be the tech of the future, how about flying a UAV in the air for 30days running on solar power and armed with powerful radars that scan upto 500km or even a 1000km you think any funny supersonic cruise missile or low flying aircraft could easily get passed it. This tech is enough to keep your enemy always thinking of more ways to penetrate it but you on the other hand would be less worried thanks to low costs of operating such a sauve radar system. Oh and before i forget i surely support finding trainers that can also be used as ground attack aircraft or atleast some form of interceptor role.

Lastly and this is not targetted against any country, but please why on earth don't we have any submarines. We need to give other navies or pirates a clear message not to mess with our commercial vessels, i haven't been able to track wht exactly happend to the vessel hijacked recently by the somali pirates. But given south korean's freed their vessel there is no reason why our navy should not be able to do the same. Plus side of having a strong navy is that you defend your commercial interests in the high seas and that in turn pays with more countries willing to do business with you. Again i have a funny new tech scenario for this too.......how about neuclear powered subs....they stay afloat for years.....i would love to get some only to simply start up a shipping line company someday .

Adios my brothers and Salams to All!
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Old February 10th, 2011   #18
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2. How to thwart an advanced fast moving attack - i think none at the moment is present or even being considered coz i seriously doubt the capability of the mig29's we got. I would suggest a mix of multi-role fighter jets,interceptors and fast attack helicopters like the cobras and thats because we barely have much air space or the monetary capability.
What's wrong with Fulcrums? What's India got that's so far ahead? Sure they have the MKIs, but other then those high end fighters, their next best thing will be the MiG-29UPG being upgraded right now, and the MMRCA when it comes through (which may itself be more Fulcrums).

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3. Do we have enough ground assets to stop or defend against the giant range of Indian missiles, fast moving tanks and attack helicopters - go read what the Syrians did to Israelis during the wars fought over Lebanon.
How do you expect a nation of ~150 million to have military parity with a nation of over a billion?

Quote:
2. Again the airforce and in this case i can't help it but mention that we have to have something beside the aging old mig29's and i mean J-10 and not FC-1 and that is primarily because we don't want even these planes to be repaired with spares from another neighbouring country. Given we get the right negotiations on the table, Bangladesh could become launch customers and push the Chinese to give more techinical assistance/know-how to atleast repair the jets ourselves. This way both Myanmar and India would get a clear message that incase things get crazy here we can fix our planes ourselves and fight 24/7 and thats going to be nightmare for any army or airforce.
The best thing Myanmar has is... MiG-29SMT? So what's the concern? Within the regional context a fleet of upgraded Fulcrums seems to be quite on par.

Quote:
3. If it were to me , i feel no use of large and heavy tanks at all. Look around you in Bangladesh and even the border areas, we have large swathes of forestland and rivers or canals and lakes, we definitely need a smart engineering corps and fast moving armoured cavalry divisions and that means fast moving tiny attack choppers, smaller fast moving armoured vehicles be it IFV's or Tanks. I have to stress again that it should not be mandatory to always have heavy armour many times in Aviation history speed has played a large role and even if you have something with heavy armour it will only be sitting ducks for things like mig-35 or suk-30MKI and lastly the scarier PAK-FA or F22 & F35.
It will really be sitting ducks for attack helos and CAS. I don't know where or when you expect to see 5th gen fighter threats. But the defense against those isn't to have smaller and faster tanks, it's to have better control of your airspace. Possibly investing in tac-SAMs or SAM-SPAAG hybrids to protect the armored units on the move. At the end of the day no matter how small or fast, a tank isn't going to out-run a Hind.

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4. Ok guys i'm going to finish this but don't laugh now!!, just bare with me, do we have anything next to a UAV or atleast a flying toy. Mind you this will be the tech of the future, how about flying a UAV in the air for 30days running on solar power and armed with powerful radars that scan upto 500km or even a 1000km you think any funny supersonic cruise missile or low flying aircraft could easily get passed it. This tech is enough to keep your enemy always thinking of more ways to penetrate it but you on the other hand would be less worried thanks to low costs of operating such a sauve radar system. Oh and before i forget i surely support finding trainers that can also be used as ground attack aircraft or atleast some form of interceptor role.
The trainers is a good idea, note I'm not expert on Bangladesh, but in that regard it's once again not gold plated assets you want, but something closer to second hand refurb L-39s... On the issue of UAVs, I'd consider that you need to have a military capable of using those UAVs effectively. This means modern comms, and control systems.

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Lastly and this is not targetted against any country, but please why on earth don't we have any submarines. We need to give other navies or pirates a clear message not to mess with our commercial vessels, i haven't been able to track wht exactly happend to the vessel hijacked recently by the somali pirates. But given south korean's freed their vessel there is no reason why our navy should not be able to do the same. Plus side of having a strong navy is that you defend your commercial interests in the high seas and that in turn pays with more countries willing to do business with you. Again i have a funny new tech scenario for this too.......how about neuclear powered subs....they stay afloat for years.....i would love to get some only to simply start up a shipping line company someday .
Anti-piracy isn't done by submarines, it's done by fairly large surface combatants, typically with helos and marines or special forces aboard. Typically it's the helicopter that responds first to many of the distress calls. Second off consider that the RoK has a much larger Navy and military budget. They've been a major player for a long time. Hence why they're able to do much more in terms of projecting force. These are costly investments, that take time. I'm not sure Bangladesh needs them. At the end of the day a large EU/NATO taskforce + Russian, Indian, and Chinese ships can't effectively put an end to the pirates, the presence of a Bangladeshi corvette is hardly going to matter.
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Old February 11th, 2011   #19
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They will replace the older types, or serve along side them?
They will replace the F-6 and will supplement the L-39s.
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Old February 11th, 2011   #20
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Hi guys as a Bangladeshi i must say i'm definitely proud of what most the BAF is doing right now, but seriously, why do most of the airforces always think along the same established rules of defence/attack.

Frankly, if we were to ever face a military offensive it would be India and Mynamar only and next if at all the Chinese(i.e. if they go completely mad and invade eastern India in a week).

Now lets look at our bigger neighbour - India, its going in fast and hard for the most robust weapons available and i'm no military expert but i have been tracking and reading most of the notable military advanced weapons and weapon systems in the world and also the most recent military conflicts. If we were to go into a faceoff with a country like India then i think these few things will help:

1. Get the most advanced Early Warning Systems and Electronic counter measuer capabilities - the current air defence systems are a move in the right direction.

2. How to thwart an advanced fast moving attack - i think none at the moment is present or even being considered coz i seriously doubt the capability of the mig29's we got. I would suggest a mix of multi-role fighter jets,interceptors and fast attack helicopters like the cobras and thats because we barely have much air space or the monetary capability.

3. Do we have enough ground assets to stop or defend against the giant range of Indian missiles, fast moving tanks and attack helicopters - go read what the Syrians did to Israelis during the wars fought over Lebanon.

Like what you are reading? then now lets move onto Myanmar, what they got maybe a few Russian and Chinese weapons. So lets see what we can do to counter any threat from them:

1. Our Navy dosen't pose any kind of credible threat to Mynmar's which explains their bold move to carry out exploration work just within visible range of our shores. Here the key is not to actually attack but to have the capability which is more than enough to scare your opponent. I guess a combination of Iranian tiny sub-marines and corvettes could easily scare the shit out of their navy, mainly coz they always pack a good punch of anti-ship missiles and they move fast(due to their small size/wt.).

2. Again the airforce and in this case i can't help it but mention that we have to have something beside the aging old mig29's and i mean J-10 and not FC-1 and that is primarily because we don't want even these planes to be repaired with spares from another neighbouring country. Given we get the right negotiations on the table, Bangladesh could become launch customers and push the Chinese to give more techinical assistance/know-how to atleast repair the jets ourselves. This way both Myanmar and India would get a clear message that incase things get crazy here we can fix our planes ourselves and fight 24/7 and thats going to be nightmare for any army or airforce.

3. If it were to me , i feel no use of large and heavy tanks at all. Look around you in Bangladesh and even the border areas, we have large swathes of forestland and rivers or canals and lakes, we definitely need a smart engineering corps and fast moving armoured cavalry divisions and that means fast moving tiny attack choppers, smaller fast moving armoured vehicles be it IFV's or Tanks. I have to stress again that it should not be mandatory to always have heavy armour many times in Aviation history speed has played a large role and even if you have something with heavy armour it will only be sitting ducks for things like mig-35 or suk-30MKI and lastly the scarier PAK-FA or F22 & F35.

Even the navies of today have learn't that mad Iranian fast attack tiny boats with missiles can easily scare large destroyers and that is because of their speed to come fast, hit and run. Iraqis did a major mess with their inventory during the last war in Iraq. The most amount of threat nowadays is an enemy out of sight that attacks from a very far off and in a funny way mostly from the air.

4. Ok guys i'm going to finish this but don't laugh now!!, just bare with me, do we have anything next to a UAV or atleast a flying toy. Mind you this will be the tech of the future, how about flying a UAV in the air for 30days running on solar power and armed with powerful radars that scan upto 500km or even a 1000km you think any funny supersonic cruise missile or low flying aircraft could easily get passed it. This tech is enough to keep your enemy always thinking of more ways to penetrate it but you on the other hand would be less worried thanks to low costs of operating such a sauve radar system. Oh and before i forget i surely support finding trainers that can also be used as ground attack aircraft or atleast some form of interceptor role.

Lastly and this is not targetted against any country, but please why on earth don't we have any submarines. We need to give other navies or pirates a clear message not to mess with our commercial vessels, i haven't been able to track wht exactly happend to the vessel hijacked recently by the somali pirates. But given south korean's freed their vessel there is no reason why our navy should not be able to do the same. Plus side of having a strong navy is that you defend your commercial interests in the high seas and that in turn pays with more countries willing to do business with you. Again i have a funny new tech scenario for this too.......how about neuclear powered subs....they stay afloat for years.....i would love to get some only to simply start up a shipping line company someday .

Adios my brothers and Salams to All!
Firstly its good to see another Bengali poster. Feanor has already made a great reply to your post. First the Mig-29s, there is nothing wrong with them, they are great, our pilots love them and they go great with our ground defence systems, they are the best air craft available for Bangladesh now. I suggest you read my previous posts which contain a lot of detail on Bangladesh's possible defence acquisitions.

Also lets address the Myanmar issue, most Bengalis freak out over Myanmer for nothing, what they do not understand is how militarily inferior they are to us. The Myanmar army does not have the capability to fight beyond its borders, we do. Their navy does not have the means to match ours, the only reason there was an incident on our maritime border, was because Myanmar was just checking how we would react facing competition. We operate far more guided missile warships then they do and by 2015, with all the new procurements being made for the BN, the difference between the two navy's will be huge. Not only that the Bangladesh army has started procuring huge numbers of medium and heavy SPH and MBRLs for bombardment and counter bombardment, they are also procuring artillery detecting radar.

We operate more modern APCs than any other country in the region, some 1200 upgraded BTR-80s, and at least another 600 APCs of different variants(Fahd 240s BTR 70s etc). In 2010 alone we ordered 125 new APCs.

I already posted earlier that the BAF has directed a lot of its funds to create a new multi layered AD system with brand new short and medium range SAMs supported by new radars both land and air borne. With the introduction of these new radars we will have 100% coverage of BD air space, something neither India or Myanmar is capable of(its more due the tiny size of our country though). The procurement of such expensive sysytems have made procurement of 4.5 gen air craft take a back seat.

Also not to go back to XvsY topic why do you think that the FC-1 can do a better job than the Mig-29. Any ways the BAF does intend to procure Fc-1s but to replace the F-7s not the Mig-29. As for the J-10 the BAF is hungry for the J-10B but will have to wait for 2018 for it to properly mature and be available.

Now for the UAVs we domestically produce target drones for artillery practice. As for surveillance drones, its an area where we have failed to catch up even Sri Lanka is ahead of us in this area, although this is about to change.

Now you must understand that Iran goes for tiny missile boats because they have no other option, they are trying to build larger ships but that really is tough. Swarming tactics are old and most large modern warships are designed to combat them. Not to mention that the range of your tiny FACMs is extremely small and they cannot operate in high waters, they are only good for shore defence.

As for submarines, Insha Allah we will be procuring a substantial no. of subs soon. You see we do not have the infrastructure to operte a sub, South Korea and turkey will help us build Sub bases and then we will be likely procure second hand albeit heavily upgraded ex TN type-209s. Also I heard about the possibilty of procuring Chinese song class subs.
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Old February 11th, 2011   #21
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Hey do you have any news regarding the f-22 frigates that were supposed to be commissioned this year? As far as I know workshops for the c802 missiles(for f-22) are being built. So any chance of jf-17 as they also support this missiles. Also pls explain the new multi layered AD system.
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Old February 12th, 2011   #22
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Hi guys......was a bit busy with other stuff but surely kept reading your posts and each one of them are more interesting than the other........i'm definitely hoping anyone of you can give some more info on our nuclear power deal with Russia is it coming through or simply lots of talk and our possibilities of sending a satellite into orbit.

I'm also very interested to know more about the air defence systems to be procured though(lol) i still feel we should have a hot air balloon or a solar powered plane like the ones recently tested to hover around high in the air for surveillance. Lastly, offcourse i got to mention this here....it would be super duper for Bangladesh to have large radar site like the ones i know of being operated by Russia and China that scan upto ranges as far as 3000 or 5000km and can detect anything flying be it a jet or missiles. Though this can't happen at the moment and primarily because of the geography coz they are mostly built into giant mountains...it would be dumb to simply scan the bay of bengal but someday we may need to better protect ourselves given we finish our Millenium Development Goals and reach another sphere of developing nations maybe.

Its great to know BAF also wants the J10B coz that is the way to go for us instead of the high cost junk from Russia and the even higher costly crap from the west. The very reason i feel Bangladesh forging good deals with China will help shape its own future coz lets face it China is now starting to show in its own modest way what its made of and we stand to benefit if we tag along with them for sometime until we have our own capability and maybe turn into another little Big Britain or Japan.

Okay thats it for now but its also great to hear that FC-1 are most probably going to replace the F-7 but i'm not totally for it coz already the ***** have it and the Indian's already figured out ways to out do that tin can. ok...thats it from me adios and Salams to all!
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Old February 12th, 2011   #23
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Its great to know BAF also wants the J10B coz that is the way to go for us instead of the high cost junk from Russia and the even higher costly crap from the west.
There are certain advantages of operating ''costly crap from the west''. I make no pretense at being an expert on Made in China defence products. Whether it's camo uniforms, small arms, lorries, jets, submarines, etc, Chinese companies can meet all the needs of any military, but there are still certain items [if the decision was mine] I would rather source from the West. Similiarly, if the cash was available I'm sure Bangladeshi decision makers and defence planners would like to acquire certain items made in the E.U. or the U.S.

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Lastly and this is not targetted against any country, but please why on earth don't we have any submarines. We need to give other navies or pirates a clear message not to mess with our commercial vessels, i haven't been able to track wht exactly happend to the vessel hijacked recently by the somali pirates. But given south korean's freed their vessel there is no reason why our navy should not be able to do the same.
It's a matter of threat perceptions and economics. Not only are submarines expensive to buy they are also expensive to operate. A shore support and training intrastructure will also have to be established.

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But given south korean's freed their vessel there is no reason why our navy should not be able to do the same.
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Plus side of having a strong navy is that you defend your commercial interests in the high seas and that in turn pays with more countries willing to do business with you.
If a Bangladeshi naval ship with special forces embarked was in the area I don't see why it would not be able to do the same. No offence but South Korea has a biggger economy and is better able to fund out of area deployments. Due to having a larger navy it can deploy assets in the Gulf of Aden without reducing it's ability to meet it's comittments at home.

There has been a lot of talk about what Bangladesh operates and what it should buy, etc, nothing wrong with that. For the benefit of those who are not very familiar with Bangladesh, perhaps the Bangladeshi's here could provide more insight into the threat perceptions of Bangladesh, it's disputes with it's neighbours, etc,?

Last edited by STURM; February 12th, 2011 at 12:42 PM.
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Old February 12th, 2011   #24
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Apologies for the double post.
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Old February 13th, 2011   #25
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Hi guys......was a bit busy with other stuff but surely kept reading your posts and each one of them are more interesting than the other........i'm definitely hoping anyone of you can give some more info on our nuclear power deal with Russia is it coming through or simply lots of talk and our possibilities of sending a satellite into orbit.

I'm also very interested to know more about the air defence systems to be procured though(lol) i still feel we should have a hot air balloon or a solar powered plane like the ones recently tested to hover around high in the air for surveillance. Lastly, offcourse i got to mention this here....it would be super duper for Bangladesh to have large radar site like the ones i know of being operated by Russia and China that scan upto ranges as far as 3000 or 5000km and can detect anything flying be it a jet or missiles. Though this can't happen at the moment and primarily because of the geography coz they are mostly built into giant mountains...it would be dumb to simply scan the bay of bengal but someday we may need to better protect ourselves given we finish our Millenium Development Goals and reach another sphere of developing nations maybe.

Its great to know BAF also wants the J10B coz that is the way to go for us instead of the high cost junk from Russia and the even higher costly crap from the west. The very reason i feel Bangladesh forging good deals with China will help shape its own future coz lets face it China is now starting to show in its own modest way what its made of and we stand to benefit if we tag along with them for sometime until we have our own capability and maybe turn into another little Big Britain or Japan.

Okay thats it for now but its also great to hear that FC-1 are most probably going to replace the F-7 but i'm not totally for it coz already the ***** have it and the Indian's already figured out ways to out do that tin can. ok...thats it from me adios and Salams to all!
First of all Western air craft aren't in any way crap. They just dont suit our needs(If they do they are too darn expensive)
I am not too excited about the Fc-1s euther, but with funding being directed to the multi layered AD system, we can't afford any 4.5 gen air craft at the moment.
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Old February 13th, 2011   #26
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Hey do you have any news regarding the f-22 frigates that were supposed to be commissioned this year? As far as I know workshops for the c802 missiles(for f-22) are being built. So any chance of jf-17 as they also support this missiles. Also pls explain the new multi layered AD system.
The frigates were ordered in 2010, they are not second hand so it will be sometime till they are built and handed over. The Fc-1 is Chinese and I don't see why they can't operate the C-802.

FYI the C-704 has beeen successfully tested in the recent excercise and will replace all the missile systems on our FACMs.
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Old February 13th, 2011   #27
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There are certain advantages of operating ''costly crap from the west''. I make no pretense at being an expert on Made in China defence products. Whether it's camo uniforms, small arms, lorries, jets, submarines, etc, Chinese companies can meet all the needs of any military, but there are still certain items [if the decision was mine] I would rather source from the West. Similiarly, if the cash was available I'm sure Bangladeshi decision makers and defence planners would like to acquire certain items made in the E.U. or the U.S.



It's a matter of threat perceptions and economics. Not only are submarines expensive to buy they are also expensive to operate. A shore support and training intrastructure will also have to be established.





If a Bangladeshi naval ship with special forces embarked was in the area I don't see why it would not be able to do the same. No offence but South Korea has a biggger economy and is better able to fund out of area deployments. Due to having a larger navy it can deploy assets in the Gulf of Aden without reducing it's ability to meet it's comittments at home.

There has been a lot of talk about what Bangladesh operates and what it should buy, etc, nothing wrong with that. For the benefit of those who are not very familiar with Bangladesh, perhaps the Bangladeshi's here could provide more insight into the threat perceptions of Bangladesh, it's disputes with it's neighbours, etc,?
You have made an excellent reply.

Now about our threats, the armed Forces of Bangladesh are extremely India Phoebic, even though chances of war with India are less than zero, ever sice 1972, our entire defence structure had been designed to protect BD from an Indian onslaught( although war against Inida was more realistic in the 70s and early 80s due to political reasons) In modern day the Bangladeshi armed forces have changed their structure, they are more worried about Myanmar than India, but the India fear still remains very strong. The Navy has received a boost after the maritime boundary incident with Myanmar in 2008, it was a wake up call for Dhaka, Being situated in one of he most hostile and volatile regions on the planet and sharing a border with a failed state run by Psychotic military rulers doesn't exactly help our situation.
To top it all of, we have Maritime boundary issues and land border issues with India and myanmar.
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Old February 13th, 2011   #28
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I posted that the L-159 was the BAF's favourite, but the fact that so few are operated has been giving the BAF cold feet, they are worried about not receiving spare parts and other services properly.
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Old February 14th, 2011   #29
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Hi all......i'm still wondering if anyone could add a little info here about Bangladesh's nuclear power deal with Russia did it come through and also about the steps the current govt. made to sending that satellite.....thanks all..bye
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Old February 14th, 2011   #30
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Hi all......i'm still wondering if anyone could add a little info here about Bangladesh's nuclear power deal with Russia did it come through and also about the steps the current govt. made to sending that satellite.....thanks all..bye
My friend you are a Bangladeshi and you should know better, the govt will talk about this deal for another 20 years trying to steal as much cash as possible before delivering anything. As for the satellite, unless the military takes part in that project or some private organization does something like this on its own, it will never be a reality.
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