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ADF General discussion thread

This is a discussion on ADF General discussion thread within the Geo-strategic Issues forum, part of the Global Defense & Military category; Its probably time for us to seriously consider the possible military options to stabilize the political situation in PNG. I ...


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Old May 24th, 2012   #31
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Papua New Guinea

Its probably time for us to seriously consider the possible military options to stabilize the political situation in PNG.
I declare a self interest here in that I grew up in the islands north of Buka and my family still holds freehold land albeit of little value due to the passage of time post the colonial era.
The developments of today with the arrest of the Chief Justice and the politicising of both the Police and the Defence must see a shaking off of dust in the plans in Foriegn Affairs and Defence.

The "one talk" (won tok) ties are far stronger in PNG than any political alliances, a fact often short changed by political commentators when discussing PNG

Do we have well developed plans and do we currently have the planned capacity to execute? I'm assuming we do.
Hell, we may even find a use for the Defmins latest "Skandi" acquisition.
Look forward to a response from a pro who knows.
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Old September 18th, 2012   #32
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So the Defence Minister has rocked the apple cart again...this time with the result of a VERY experienced former member of Defence stepping aside as Defence Secretary, this may have worked out for Stephen Smith however the incoming Secretary sounds just as critical of the defence budget??
Has anyone else got any insight into this move? Abe?, Old Faithful? etc
I am a 'long time listener, first time caller' sort of thing and would like to see the General discussion thread really kick off since the ADF is going through some massive changes (slap in face from Government) I am against the budget cuts however I beleive there is ample reasons for them, GFC, poor history of acqusitions, M113 upgrade, FFG upgrade, Tiger, Seasprite, Sirius, F35 ( admittedly alot is out of our hands) thats just a short list of big ticket items with out including everybody's favourite failure the terra combat boot! admittedly the latest are pretty good haha
its a substantial list with alot of wasted money. Anyway would like to hear other peoples thoughts on the subject
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Old September 18th, 2012   #33
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So the Defence Minister has rocked the apple cart again...this time with the result of a VERY experienced former member of Defence stepping aside as Defence Secretary, this may have worked out for Stephen Smith however the incoming Secretary sounds just as critical of the defence budget??
Has anyone else got any insight into this move? Abe?, Old Faithful? etc
I am a 'long time listener, first time caller' sort of thing and would like to see the General discussion thread really kick off since the ADF is going through some massive changes (slap in face from Government) I am against the budget cuts however I beleive there is ample reasons for them, GFC, poor history of acqusitions, M113 upgrade, FFG upgrade, Tiger, Seasprite, Sirius, F35 ( admittedly alot is out of our hands) thats just a short list of big ticket items with out including everybody's favourite failure the terra combat boot! admittedly the latest are pretty good haha
its a substantial list with alot of wasted money. Anyway would like to hear other peoples thoughts on the subject
Abe,A us dig,or GF would have far more insight than me,I hear furphys from serving members or ex,but politicly I know no one with any contacts in defence.
(Although Stuart Roberts is an ex pl come of mine)Shadow minister.
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Old January 29th, 2013   #34
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God help save us from this incompetent government

It appears Gillard’s drive for saving will be felt by defence once again in the form of more defence land sold off, not sure what more can be sold off, has Gan Gan been sold off that would be a developers dream right next to the beach from memory. I remember doing beach work and practicing our recovery there.

Bases to close under new White Paper?

This government penny pinching ways are starting to get beyond the joke hurry up with the next election.
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Old January 29th, 2013   #35
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It appears Gillard’s drive for saving will be felt by defence once again in the form of more defence land sold off, not sure what more can be sold off, has Gan Gan been sold off that would be a developers dream right next to the beach from memory. I remember doing beach work and practicing our recovery there.

Bases to close under new White Paper?

This government penny pinching ways are starting to get beyond the joke hurry up with the next election.
We just need to hope Tony Abbott doesn't take a leaf out of David Camerons book or John Howards for that matter. Defence cuts under new conservative governments can and have been beyond savage in many cases, especially when they have an incompetent predecessor to cast blame on to.
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Old January 30th, 2013   #36
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It appears Gillard’s drive for saving will be felt by defence once again in the form of more defence land sold off, not sure what more can be sold off, has Gan Gan been sold off that would be a developers dream right next to the beach from memory. I remember doing beach work and practicing our recovery there.

Bases to close under new White Paper?

This government penny pinching ways are starting to get beyond the joke hurry up with the next election.
Hurry up with the next election? Well you got your wish! (Did you know something that we all didn't?)

Interesting move by Gillard to announce the date, Sept 14th, still 7 1/2 months away. (Almost sound like someone announcing they are 6 weeks pregnant, wonder what sort of baby will be delivered to us on the day??).

Will the Government use this "phony" election period to defer the announcement of the White Paper and any of the expected major equipment announcements until after the election?

Or more likely, go full steam ahead with the White Paper and announcements, make it look like they are being "serious" about defence.

When the White Paper is released, it will also be interesting to see if the Opposition tears into it and announce a new White Paper themselves.

Well I better start marking the days off on my calender......
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Old January 30th, 2013   #37
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Seems to me that people put to much faith in one party over the other.
Governments will do what has to be done to balance the books and bottom line.
We are seeing Financial issues all around the world,the Australian Government is receiving less tax revenue/income and this is effecting all parts of Government.

Defence will not be the only body that see's cuts,health,education ect will all suffer.
I think Defence in general will suffer in a big way.less Subs,ships,planes and soldiers running around in the bush yelling bang bang!

Its time to tighten the belt, i just hope defence promises are kept that have been mentioned. I see this new White Paper being the start of cuts to defence.
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Old January 30th, 2013   #38
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Seems to me that people put to much faith in one party over the other.
Governments will do what has to be done to balance the books and bottom line.
We are seeing Financial issues all around the world,the Australian Government is receiving less tax revenue/income and this is effecting all parts of Government.

Defence will not be the only body that see's cuts,health,education ect will all suffer.
I think Defence in general will suffer in a big way.less Subs,ships,planes and soldiers running around in the bush yelling bang bang!

Its time to tighten the belt, i just hope defence promises are kept that have been mentioned. I see this new White Paper being the start of cuts to defence.
What you say is true, we will continue to see the belt tightened, no doubt about that.

I'm sure in the lead up to the next budget, an election budget too, that each and every department of Government will be fighting tooth and nail to save their own portfolio from the chop, helps to get re-elected!

Which, in my opinion, makes the upcoming White Paper very interesting, it will be delivered right in the middle of the "phony" election campaign, I think it will have more of a spotlight on it, as opposed to having been released at the beginning of a Government's term in office.

If the White Paper cuts are too severe, no doubt the Opposition will, certainly from a political point of view, jump all over it and claim the Goverment is being negligent with defence, and make promises about bringing out its own White Paper if elected (which I think the Opposition has said it will do anyway).

Be interesting to know what the Government "spin soctors" are advising in the background about what will or won't be politically acceptable to cut.

Yes defence should be just about defence, but in an election year, I'm sure politics will play a part in the end result.
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Old January 30th, 2013   #39
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The difference is that the defence budget has to be spent over a number of years as projects take a long time to deliver. To vary the education budget is easier, just employ less teachers and tell the rest to cope (I'm a teacher btw). If you do the same in defence you create headaches for many years to come.
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Old January 30th, 2013   #40
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Hurry up with the next election? Well you got your wish! (Did you know something that we all didn't?)

Interesting move by Gillard to announce the date, Sept 14th, still 7 1/2 months away. (Almost sound like someone announcing they are 6 weeks pregnant, wonder what sort of baby will be delivered to us on the day??).

Will the Government use this "phony" election period to defer the announcement of the White Paper and any of the expected major equipment announcements until after the election?

Or more likely, go full steam ahead with the White Paper and announcements, make it look like they are being "serious" about defence.

When the White Paper is released, it will also be interesting to see if the Opposition tears into it and announce a new White Paper themselves.

Well I better start marking the days off on my calender......
I wish we could treat it like a tender and just say neither proposal meets our needs, go away and try again and just keep sending them away until they present us with leaders and ministers they we want who will do what we need doing.
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Old January 30th, 2013   #41
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I wish we could treat it like a tender and just say neither proposal meets our needs, go away and try again and just keep sending them away until they present us with leaders and ministers they we want who will do what we need doing.
Good one, very funny! Wonder if it would take as long as the Caribou replacement to find the right ones?

Actually I've got a solution to the problem, many years ago a mate said to me:

"What we need is a benevolent dictator, put him in power for 10 years, get everything done that needs to be done, and just before the 10 years are up, take him out and 'dispose' of him before he gets too comfortable in the job and then install the next one, repeat as necessary!"
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Old January 30th, 2013   #42
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Good one, very funny! Wonder if it would take as long as the Caribou replacement to find the right ones?

Actually I've got a solution to the problem, many years ago a mate said to me:

"What we need is a benevolent dictator, put him in power for 10 years, get everything done that needs to be done, and just before the 10 years are up, take him out and 'dispose' of him before he gets too comfortable in the job and then install the next one, repeat as necessary!"
The other one I read in a fantasy novel of all places, was appoint (against their wishes) the most competent and capable business people to run the country for a fixed term with all of their assets being liquefied and placed in general revenue for the duration of their tenure. The catch being the amount returned would be adjusted up or down in direct proportion to the growth or contraction of the economy on their watch.
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Old January 30th, 2013   #43
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The other one I read in a fantasy novel of all places, was appoint (against their wishes) the most competent and capable business people to run the country for a fixed term with all of their assets being liquefied and placed in general revenue for the duration of their tenure. The catch being the amount returned would be adjusted up or down in direct proportion to the growth or contraction of the economy on their watch.
Good one too, I'd certainly vote for either your solution or my solution, either way I think we would probably get a better result for the Country, especially considering the quality of the donkeys that currently populate both sides of politics at the moment.

But I still like my suggestion, to 'dispose' of them near the end of their term, sort of solves the problems of the 'golden handshake' payouts, no more retired pollies with their noses in the feed bag for the rest of their lives!!
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Old January 31st, 2013   #44
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Good one too, I'd certainly vote for either your solution or my solution, either way I think we would probably get a better result for the Country, especially considering the quality of the donkeys that currently populate both sides of politics at the moment.

But I still like my suggestion, to 'dispose' of them near the end of their term, sort of solves the problems of the 'golden handshake' payouts, no more retired pollies with their noses in the feed bag for the rest of their lives!!
One I favoured here in NZ was give them three years (NZ election cycle) to do their job. If they stuffed up take them to Waiouru and let NZ Army use them as target practice. Keep doing this to encourage the following lots to do their job properly. The only problem with it is that somebody would have to write out an environmental impact statement. Paperwork always paperwork.
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Old February 1st, 2013   #45
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New defmin - a good start

Just announced - Mike Kelly.
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