This is a discussion on Russia, China Join Forces in War Games within the Geo-Strategic Defense forum, part of the Global Defense & Military category; Russia, China Join Forces in War Games Russia and China have kicked off their first large-scale joint war games, involving ...
Russia and China have kicked off their first large-scale joint war games, involving 10,000 troops, in the port city of Vladivostok in Russia's Far East. Officials say the exercises, dubbed Peace Mission 2005, are aimed at countering new threats and challenges, such as terrorism and separatism.
The week-long drills, simulating intervention in a country wracked by ethnic violence, began with political and military consultations between Russian and Chinese military delegations.
In comments broadcast on Russian television from Vladivostok, the chief-of-staff of Russia's armed forces, General Yuri Baluyevsky, said the primary aim of the land, air and sea drills is peaceful.
Mr. Baluyevsky echoed his Chinese counterpart in saying the two sides are not striving to build a strategic military alliance, in order to confront or threaten a rival third party, as some may fear or suggest. He says the drills seek to fine-tune command and control preparations in the event of a large-scale terrorist attack or emergency.
A Russian professor of military sciences, German Petrenko, also discounts the threat level of the games. In an interview with Russia's Echo Moscow radio, Mr. Petrenko says the maneuvers mainly aim to protect Russia's national interests.
Mr. Petrenko, a military reservist, says the nod east, to China, reflects what he calls the current strategic and geographical reality after the break-up of the Soviet-led Warsaw Pact military alliance.
Others say the joint exercises are an opportunity for Moscow to demonstrate its weaponry to China, one of the biggest consumers of Russian military hardware.
The exercises also highlight growing ties between Moscow and Beijing. Their relations have warmed following decades of Cold War-era rivalry, reflecting their mutual concerns over perceived U.S. dominance in global affairs, as well as shared interest in combating extremism and separatism in Central Asia.
Despite the attempts to downplay controversy, western news reports note the unusual involvement of warplanes that can carry conventional or nuclear-tipped missiles during the drill. Such planes are not normally seen during peacekeeping exercises.
The United States was informed of the maneuvers in advance, but reportedly chose not to send observers. State Department Spokesman Sean McCormack earlier said that the United States expects that, whatever activities take place during the drills, they will only be ones that further regional stability and peace in Asia and the Pacific.
I dont realy want to creat any fuss but it seems like Russia accepting China as a regional power after its collapse as Soviat Union also indicating to certain some one that Russia will be selling advance weapons to China since that some one is looking into US markets.
This will boost China's strength into the region. But can the guidance of Russia & mistakes learned from the late of Soviat Union help avoid China making its own mistakes & become a super power taking the world again to Multi-Polar cold war like era?
________________ "It is better to accept an end with a horror then face horror with no end." - Karl Von Clausewitz
Last edited by SABRE; August 18th, 2005 at 06:11 PM.
I'd say, seeing India cosy up with the US, Russia is in no mood of taking any chances and is therefore sending a message to the US of its intentions to cosy up with China as a counter-measure to gain geo-political as well as strategic advantage. Hmm, not to get too optimistic here but China and Russia becoming strategic partners (though it may sound a little far-fetched), would be just too much for US to handle IMHO. Not bad for Pakistan indirectly in any way.
Lets see where this leads this game of chess. Who gates mated and who takes home the glory.
________________
With passion and sacrifice, comes freedom!
I'd say, seeing India cosy up with the US, Russia is in no mood of taking any chances and is therefore sending a message to the US of its intentions to cosy up with China as a counter-measure to gain geo-political as well as strategic advantage. Hmm, not to get too optimistic here but China and Russia becoming strategic partners (though it may sound a little far-fetched), would be just too much for US to handle IMHO. Not bad for Pakistan indirectly in any way.
Lets see where this leads this game of chess. Who gates mated and who takes home the glory.
exactly. russia is sending some top noch weaponary to showcase to the chinese as well.
I'd say, seeing India cosy up with the US, Russia is in no mood of taking any chances and is therefore sending a message to the US of its intentions to cosy up with China as a counter-measure to gain geo-political as well as strategic advantage. Hmm, not to get too optimistic here but China and Russia becoming strategic partners (though it may sound a little far-fetched), would be just too much for US to handle IMHO. Not bad for Pakistan indirectly in any way.
Lets see where this leads this game of chess. Who gates mated and who takes home the glory.
I don't understand why the hell in the world would people bring up India
at every single subject we talk about?
Well if you can give us another more convincing reason why Russia and China have started cosying up other than India's recent actions and gestures of cosying up with the US, we'd be happy to look in to that and explore the possibilities.
________________
With passion and sacrifice, comes freedom!
India was never cosyed with US. US was the one who needed India
as their ''Allie'' in the Central Asia as well as in the South east Asia.
I think the Indians are smart enough to avoid that situation and
cooperate with the Chinese in the regional affairs. So they could
actually be one of the superpower in the region rather than some
watch dog for the americans like the Japanese.
I don't understand why the hell in the world would people bring up India
at every single subject we talk about?
Well your right. We have narrowed our minds to Pak-India. What this is excersice is , is between two countries China & Russia. But it still performs a show off one way or another. According to BBC & CNN it is show off to US & the west that is because they are the west & see things from their side. We are Asians (South Asians) & see things from our side. I would say at this moment that all sides are correct. It is show off to US & India. China is showing of against US, Russia has nothing to show off to US instead that if they take away their biggest market they have another which they can never take away.
________________ "It is better to accept an end with a horror then face horror with no end." - Karl Von Clausewitz
Well your right. We have narrowed our minds to Pak-India. What this is excersice is , is between two countries China & Russia.....
Just my two cents :
Contries buying russian goods are either countries that can't afford western technology or just can't (banned).
Russian stuff are very far from US\Eurpoean level, whatever OKBs will tell you.
I have a good indicator of a countries tech level, it is called ISO (i.e. 9001/9002/14001). And Russia is not very well represented here.
Why do you think India is trying to buy elsewhere?
If you have 10 Rafale/EF2K or F-16s, you will put for flight hours then 30 Sukhois/MiGs. Same for Kilos, and anything.
You should not be so excited about russian things.
Just my two cents :
Contries buying russian goods are either countries that can't afford western technology or just can't (banned).
Russian stuff are very far from US\Eurpoean level, whatever OKBs will tell you.
I have a good indicator of a countries tech level, it is called ISO (i.e. 9001/9002/14001). And Russia is not very well represented here.
Why do you think India is trying to buy elsewhere?
If you have 10 Rafale/EF2K or F-16s, you will put for flight hours then 30 Sukhois/MiGs. Same for Kilos, and anything.
You should not be so excited about russian things.
I wont realy disagree here. From the looks, avionics, & specifications Russian machines are quite good but have failed in past when it has come to performance. But keeping performance aside Sukhoi-27/30 Series is quite good specialy compared to USAF's F-15s. Thats why Chinese are opting for them so thay can gain Air Superiority in the region. How they would perform if China was to invade Tiwan? Well, only time can tell.
Anyways here is the latest regarding the War Game:
Quote:
China, Russia War Games Prepare for Live-Fire Drills
Russian and Chinese forces are wrapping up the second phase of joint military exercises as they prepare for live-fire drills to begin Tuesday in eastern China's Shandong Peninsula.
Nearly 10,000 troops from land, sea, and air forces of both nations are participating in the first-ever large-scale war games between the two countries.
The China Daily newspaper says the third phase of the eight-day exercise, dubbed "Peace Mission 2005," will involve firing with live ammunition by warplanes and military vessels as part of an amphibious landing on the Shandong peninsula.
The joint maneuvers began in the Russian port city of Vladivostok Thursday.
The United States is not attending as an observer, but says it is closely monitoring the drills.
But keeping performance aside Sukhoi-27/30 Series is quite good specialy compared to USAF's F-15s.
If you read in details the AAR of the indo-US exercices you would understand that the F-15s has no problem dealing with the Su-30s, in any condition.
This exercices was biaised and oriented toward Congres acceptance of the F-22 bill. I don't consider the Sukhoi family on par to any F-teens.
If you read in details the AAR of the indo-US exercices you would understand that the F-15s has no problem dealing with the Su-30s, in any condition.
This exercices was biaised and oriented toward Congres acceptance of the F-22 bill. I don't consider the Sukhoi family on par to any F-teens.
What said was in context to this topic. What I ment was that Su-27/30 are the only good AirCrafts China can get hold of in order to defend against F-15s. They are the only air crafts in F-15 league that Chinese have excess to even though they can be inferior. Most Su-30 fans (who's countries main fighters are Su-30) will disagree with me & bring up reports on Sukhois proved to be better than F-Teens in Indo-US excerise but I (Like you) am firm believer in F-Teens. I am from Pakistan so u can guess I am big F-16 fan.
________________ "It is better to accept an end with a horror then face horror with no end." - Karl Von Clausewitz
I will always prefer to seat in a F-16 or F-15 then in a Su- series.
I have seen parts of russian planes (i.e. the few that fell off in Le Bourget), and I am not impressed. Now, russiams are trying to learn (i.e. RRJ) but, at the light of last meetings with Sukhoi my boss attended a while ago, the are just discovering the real life.
And that is why I am not impressed by chinese stuff either. They have a very deep russian phylosophy in designing things.
Plus I once talked to a chinese engineer from CATIC, and he didn't understand when I asked him about MIL STDs or RTCAs. He said they are debugging the materials when in the serial prod. And all the US specs are not good and all, just american and westerner view of things, etc etc...
I didn't dare saying that the world standards are not only usefull...
You can't make a good design without them today.
And that is why I am not impressed by chinese stuff either. They have a very deep russian phylosophy in designing things.
Plus I once talked to a chinese engineer from CATIC, and he didn't understand when I asked him about MIL STDs or RTCAs. He said they are debugging the materials when in the serial prod. And all the US specs are not good and all, just american and westerner view of things, etc etc...
I didn't dare saying that the world standards are not only usefull...
You can't make a good design without them today.
Many Chinese dont have knowledge of Western AirCrafts thats true but they are trying to get there. Since Pakistan has its own trouble they decided to go to Israel. Israel can & may have provided them informations, they also gave away Levi plans which developed into J-10. There are roumers of Chinese being interested in French Fighter jets. They'll ask when EU lifts arms ban but I doubt they'll get it.
But they still have to do alot to come up with some thing similar to Western AirCrafts.
Quote:
I will always prefer to seat in a F-16 or F-15 then in a Su- series.
I have seen parts of russian planes (i.e. the few that fell off in Le Bourget), and I am not impressed. Now, russiams are trying to learn (i.e. RRJ) but, at the light of last meetings with Sukhoi my boss attended a while ago, the are just discovering the real life.
I once met an Iranian Pilot in Saudi Arabia. He is the 1st Iranian I have seen who can speek good english. He told me he was in AirForce & flew F-14 few times (at the back seat only) & was later transfered to MiG-29. He said that Russian Fighters are very lousy when it comes to maintainance. Some time maintainance officers make mistakes (because of technical issues) & the aircraft is at the risk of crashing. He said parts do fell of Mig-29 if maintainance not attended properly.
________________ "It is better to accept an end with a horror then face horror with no end." - Karl Von Clausewitz
It's funny how most people are convinced their country operates/produces the best jets. At most they'll accept an allies product but everything the other side uses is bad, outdated and will be shot down anyway
Whilst Russian products may not have the same quality as western ones, they shouldn't be underestimated. Also, they make up with a substantially lower price tag.
The SU-27/30 series is capable of very impressive maneuvers and utilizes a range of advanced weaponry. IMHO you cannot compare this air superiority fighter to a mainstay jet like the F16
.jpg)
