Where are the Russian weapons in Syria?

Quiller

New Member
In June 2013 Russian President Vladimir Putin talked of sending significant numbers of advanced weapon systems to Syria. These were to include an unspecified number of TOS-1A MLRS thermobaric rocket launchers into the theater. These MLRS systems proved pretty effective in the Balkans, and their use against massed troops with light mechanized weapons (machine-gun equipped trucks) in the desert should prove pretty devastating. While not the be all, end all of artillery, it would seem likely to dramatically blunt any IS offensive in any given area -- such as the protection of an air base.

Since that announcement I haven't spotted any clear indication that the TOS-1A system was in fact mobilized in Syria, or that it has been used. It would seem that use of such a system could be very damaging to any Islamic State military advance and certainly if Assad had these one would think he would use them. Assad has never been squeamish about such things.

Anybody have better intel on whether they are in place in Syria or have been used? With IS pressing in on their the next Syrian airbase, the TOS system could stop the assault in its tracks.
 
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pkcasimir

Member
There is no information to indicate that Putin ever provided the TOS-1 to Syria or that the Syrian Army possesses any. It may be just another example of Putin's bluster or, more likely, the Syrians couldn't put up the money to buy them. Russia has, however, sold the TOS-1 to the Iraqi Army and some have been delivered. There is no information to indicate that ISIS has captured any but, as with most of the modern US weapons they captured, ISIS can't use them because of lack of technical expertise, spare parts, etc.
The Brown Moses blog follows the use of weapons in Syria and you may wish to check there periodically.
I don't recall the TOS-1 ever being used in the Balkans, but it was used to devastating effect in Chechnya, where the Russians just obliterated villages with them. I don't want to get into an argument but I hardly think that the TOS-1 would be a game changer in Syria. It is used against massed troops and armor, not the way the war is being fought in Syria.
 

Feanor

Super Moderator
Staff member
OP is confusing Syria and Iraq. The TOS-1 went to Iraq, 4 of them. I strongly suspect that a large chunk of Russian supplies to Syria are munitions, and spare parts for vehicles and equipment.
 

Quiller

New Member
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There is no information to indicate that Putin ever provided the TOS-1 to Syria or that the Syrian Army possesses any. It may be just another example of Putin's bluster or, more likely, the Syrians couldn't put up the money to buy them. Russia has, however, sold the TOS-1 to the Iraqi Army and some have been delivered. There is no information to indicate that ISIS has captured any but, as with most of the modern US weapons they captured, ISIS can't use them because of lack of technical expertise, spare parts, etc.
The Brown Moses blog follows the use of weapons in Syria and you may wish to check there periodically.
I don't recall the TOS-1 ever being used in the Balkans, but it was used to devastating effect in Chechnya, where the Russians just obliterated villages with them. I don't want to get into an argument but I hardly think that the TOS-1 would be a game changer in Syria. It is used against massed troops and armor, not the way the war is being fought in Syria.
Of course I didn't say weapons were delivered to Syria... that was my question. Putin, as you put it, blustered about doing so. I was just wondering if there was any intel to suggest same.

No argument about the applicability of the TOS-1 or -1A system. But ISIS does mass troops and seems to use armed trucks/jeeps whatever to begin their attacks. Terrorist group or not, they know how to use orthodox military tactics as well. It just seems to me that if air surveillance spotted such a collection of troops, a TOS barrage would be pretty damaging to it and could blunt such an offensive.

I guess my direction is --- are precision bomb attacks on individual trucks, and small units that meaningful in the context of this sort of fighting? It seems that significant obliteration of large numbers of ISIS combatants is preferable to these precision attacks. According to various reports, at least some areas occupied by ISIS troops in Iraq may be largely free of civilians, who have fled and found themselves bottled up in one enclave or another, seeking rescue. That would suggest ISIS and mostly ISIS may occupy certain areas, which might be susceptible to FAE or anti-personnel submunition saturation. Just saying.
 

Quiller

New Member
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #5
There is no information to indicate that Putin ever provided the TOS-1 to Syria or that the Syrian Army possesses any. It may be just another example of Putin's bluster or, more likely, the Syrians couldn't put up the money to buy them. Russia has, however, sold the TOS-1 to the Iraqi Army and some have been delivered. There is no information to indicate that ISIS has captured any but, as with most of the modern US weapons they captured, ISIS can't use them because of lack of technical expertise, spare parts, etc.
The Brown Moses blog follows the use of weapons in Syria and you may wish to check there periodically.
I don't recall the TOS-1 ever being used in the Balkans, but it was used to devastating effect in Chechnya, where the Russians just obliterated villages with them. I don't want to get into an argument but I hardly think that the TOS-1 would be a game changer in Syria. It is used against massed troops and armor, not the way the war is being fought in Syria.
Also you are correct, I misspoke when I said "Balkans." I meant Chechnya, particularly the destruction of Grozny. Sorry about the error.
 

My2Cents

Active Member
I guess my direction is --- are precision bomb attacks on individual trucks, and small units that meaningful in the context of this sort of fighting? It seems that significant obliteration of large numbers of ISIS combatants is preferable to these precision attacks. According to various reports, at least some areas occupied by ISIS troops in Iraq may be largely free of civilians, who have fled and found themselves bottled up in one enclave or another, seeking rescue. That would suggest ISIS and mostly ISIS may occupy certain areas, which might be susceptible to FAE or anti-personnel submunition saturation. Just saying.
Largely free of civilians is not the same as free of civilians. It also doesn’t mean that the ISIS is lined up wheel hub to wheel hub like in a Mad Max movie.

In fact, since the air attacks at the Mosul dam, the ISIS is assiduously practicing dispersion to limit their vulnerability to massive attacks and the use of human shields to prevent more attacks. Only with a large number of civilians immediately around will they obviously congregate. They understand the rules and are NOT stupid.
 

Blackshoe

Defense Professional
Verified Defense Pro
OP is confusing Syria and Iraq. The TOS-1 went to Iraq, 4 of them. I strongly suspect that a large chunk of Russian supplies to Syria are munitions, and spare parts for vehicles and equipment.
Brown Moses has found some BM-30 Smerch rockets being used in Syria. Which is slightly more than nothing, but pretty low-grade support overall.

I'd suspect there's a lot of technical/maintenance support that we don't know about, but that's why Rumsfeld called them "unknown unknowns."
 

Feanor

Super Moderator
Staff member
Brown Moses has found some BM-30 Smerch rockets being used in Syria. Which is slightly more than nothing, but pretty low-grade support overall.

I'd suspect there's a lot of technical/maintenance support that we don't know about, but that's why Rumsfeld called them "unknown unknowns."
But the Smerch itself has not been seen. Not surprising, given that it's an expensive and complex system. It's possible that they're using improvised launchers, and old munitions that Russia is getting rid of by shipping them to Assad.
 

wsb05

Member
But the Smerch itself has not been seen. Not surprising, given that it's an expensive and complex system. It's possible that they're using improvised launchers, and old munitions that Russia is getting rid of by shipping them to Assad.
Smerch has been spotted and a photo was published a while back. Cannot seem to locate it now.
Having a second look, it was Uragan.
http://bmpd.livejournal.com/?skip=105
 
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