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-   -   What Assault Rifle - British Army Should Replace SA-80 A2 With? (http://www.defencetalk.com/forums/army-security-forces/what-assault-rifle-british-army-should-replace-sa-80-a2-10193/)

Cutaway February 22nd, 2008 06:36 PM

Replace the SA80 with?
 
This thread is for the Brit's on this forum who are fed up with the shoddy made SA80 assault rifle, Decide which rifle should replace it and post a poll.

V4.SKUNK February 22nd, 2008 07:23 PM

Have you even used a L85A2?
It doesn't need replacing and there is nothing wrong with it except it's weight.
It's also a little harder to maintain because it's more complex internaly.
Other than that it's more accurate and hit's harder than an M-16 and it's more reliable...
L85A1 was supposed to have been rubbish though, forever jamming...

jaffo4011 February 23rd, 2008 07:18 AM

quite a good site on the weapon here with some of its recent upgrades and pictures....www.world.guns.ru/assault/as22-e.htm

lobbie111 February 23rd, 2008 08:56 AM

If, the government was foolish enough to replace something they have spent so much time and money but rather little effort as they brought H&K in on it. I recommend the Steyr AUG A3 (not the Australian version the Steyr Version), it has the best mult-role ability, eg sniper, grenade laucher etc.

I wish Australia should upgrade to this form of the A3 but it has somthing to do with the license it has to produce the Steyr and the fact that the government wants to do it in Aus because they want to make themselves and the public feel better.

lonelytoad February 24th, 2008 01:32 AM

1 Attachment(s)
L85A2 is not reliable enough. HK G11, the caseless one, may be a good choice. accuracy, light weight, high shooting speed, you name it. the only weakness is expenditure, around $2000 each rifle. but it could reduce for mass production.

buglerbilly February 24th, 2008 06:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lonelytoad (Post 132986)
L85A2 is not reliable enough. HK G11, the caseless one, may be a good choice. accuracy, light weight, high shooting speed, you name it. the only weakness is expenditure, around $2000 each rifle. but it could reduce for mass production.

Are you kidding? The G11 is a dead duck for anyone and that includes the German Army..............its been dead as a weapon system for about 8 or so years now! :rolleyes:

The L85A2 is good enough, certainly better than M4 and its tendency to jam BUT I'm NOT a User, go ask them what needs to be replaced when.........the rest of us are just REM-F's...........:D

lonelytoad February 24th, 2008 07:11 AM

G11 is not dead. G11 was and is a trend. It is still in service in German special troops. It was not put into mass production only because of the reunion of Germany. German government thought that there was no demand for such powerful infrantry soldier system, which now seems a stupid decision. They also hoped that they could have used the low cost AK tech from East Germany to find a cheper rifle for German soldiers. Unfortunately, this idea was vetoed because both West and East German dislike AK, the symbol of cold war and iron curtain.

:smokie But I agree with you that MOD should let the army man make the decision.:smokie

kato February 24th, 2008 07:48 AM

Good joke.

There are about 500 to 1,000 G11 rusting away in some depot or another (err, or whatever plastic does) if they aren't scrapped, and that's it.

The G11 has never been in German service beyond the initial trials with some 600 rifles in 1989 (roughly).

The contract for the G11 (initial contract: 350,000 rifles) was cancelled in 1990, and the system has been dead since then. No development, no production, neither weapon system nor ammunition.

The AK74 however was in Bundeswehr service for about 2-3 years initially, in units in Eastern Germany, before the big 1993 drawdown. Was designated "MP74" in service, i.e. a SMG, not a rifle.

DavidDCM February 24th, 2008 08:03 AM

@lonelytoad:
I'm sorry, but I've never read such a mistake-laden post in the entirity of this Forum. No offence, but not a single of your statements is true, except for the fact that the G11-project was cancelled due to the end of the cold war.

- No G11 in German service (not a single one! Neither in Special nor regular forces)
- If that was a "stupid decision" is of course a matter of everyones own opinion, but the G11 was not without flaws and far from being a perfect rifle.
- The Bundeswehr never wanted the AK as standard issue rifle, and if they wanted, there would be no problem with it. I think several units of the Ex-NVA used the AK for a couple of month or longer after the reunion.

€dit/ Dang, too late...

lonelytoad February 24th, 2008 09:41 AM

:) Thank you Kato and David to correct my wrong information about G11, anyway.

I didnot intend to use the stupid "stupid" word in an offensive way. Only because I like G11 very much. After all, caseless tech is a breakthrough like small cal. bullet. It could have changed the complexion of single soldier sytem if it was not ceased. Even though it had flaws and weakness at that time.

Chino February 24th, 2008 11:52 AM

Watching a video of the G11 in action, the recoil in single shot seemed brutal.

lonelytoad February 24th, 2008 12:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chino (Post 133062)
Watching a video of the G11 in action, the recoil in single shot seemed brutal.

There was a test. If you want to reduce influence from recoile to minimum level 3-round bursting, the rate of firing should exceed 2000 rpm. That was what G11 reach at that time.

jaffo4011 February 27th, 2008 03:17 PM

my only experience with these weapons is on call of duty 4!.........however,using this simulation as a guide im a big fan of the g36 and g3!....unfortunately the sa80 series is about the only infantry weapon not used on there.....:mad:

Izzy1 February 27th, 2008 04:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cutaway (Post 132794)
This thread is for the Brit's on this forum who are fed up with the shoddy made SA80 assault rifle, Decide which rifle should replace it and post a poll.


What would you replace it with and why? Or are you another know-it-all, who read an article in the Guardian and suddenly knows everything about the L85?

So far on this thread, I have read rubbish, from people who clearly have never used the L85.

So here's my view. I found the L85A1/2 (SA-80) a cumbersome, heavy and complicated piece of kit. It demanded constant attention, a thorough cleaning and a thoughtful person at the end of it.

When looked after however and in the hands of a British Soldier, it's battle-winner - as prooven. And with the A2 upgrade by BAE/HK, the British Infantryman has a weapon that is not only combat proven but combat trusted.

Izzy1 February 27th, 2008 04:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lonelytoad (Post 132986)
L85A2 is not reliable enough. HK G11, the caseless one, may be a good choice. accuracy, light weight, high shooting speed, you name it. the only weakness is expenditure, around $2000 each rifle. but it could reduce for mass production.

Give the G11 to our one of our boys in Helmend Province, Afghanistan.

You'll get it back unused and with kisses.


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