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What Assault Rifle - British Army Should Replace SA-80 A2 With?

This is a discussion on What Assault Rifle - British Army Should Replace SA-80 A2 With? within the Army & Security Forces forum, part of the Global Defense & Military category; Originally Posted by Falstaff Are you joking? The G3 is a dated design and surely no candidate to replace any ...


View Poll Results: Replace the SA80 with?
M16 series(also covers HK416, etc) 7 16.67%
AK series(also covers Galil, etc) 2 4.76%
FN SCAR 8 19.05%
FAMAS 0 0%
FX05/G36 8 19.05%
Steyr AUG 4 9.52%
Somthing else 13 30.95%
Voters: 42. You may not vote on this poll

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Old May 11th, 2010   #31
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Originally Posted by Falstaff View Post
Are you joking? The G3 is a dated design and surely no candidate to replace any modern rifle. It is being replaced in Germany with the much lighter, far more ergonomic and easy to shoot G36. Having shot both of them I'd say luckily so.
And the bullet is not similar to the soviet 7.62x39, NATO 7,62x51 is a much more powerful, heavier (almost rifle) cartridge.
Don't Iran and pakistan still use the G3? Saif1 is, or at least claims to be Pakistani, so this might explain his comment.

Although I do agree with you, the G3 is a bit dated and there unquestionably are better options for a proposed SA80 replacement.

Last edited by Kilo 2-3; May 13th, 2010 at 11:35 AM. Reason: Islamabad is tha capital of...Pakistan...I am such an ignorant American....
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Old May 12th, 2010   #32
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Originally Posted by Falstaff View Post
Are you joking? The G3 is a dated design and surely no candidate to replace any modern rifle. It is being replaced in Germany with the much lighter, far more ergonomic and easy to shoot G36. Having shot both of them I'd say luckily so.
And the bullet is not similar to the soviet 7.62x39, NATO 7,62x51 is a much more powerful, heavier (almost rifle) cartridge.
G3, are you mad? That's been superseded by the G36, no longer made outside Pakistan and Iran. Good weapon in its day, reliable and hard hitting. Never understood why the G3K had a smaller shoulder plate on the extending butt when compared to an MP5 though, the later has almost zero recoil unlike the former!

The biggest issue is not the rifle (plenty of suitable options on the market), but ammunition. The UK military is happy enough with the much improved SA80, no need to replace until the wider community (NATO) decides which calibre to go with. Post Iraq/A-Stan, I suspect something between 5.56 and 7.62, possibly 6.8mm.
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Old May 13th, 2010   #33
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And the bullet is not similar to the soviet 7.62x39, NATO 7,62x51 is a much more powerful, heavier (almost rifle) cartridge.
Almost rifle? I'd say the 7.62 x 51 or .308 cartridge is a full power rifle round. I'm fairly sure the SLR I was issued with was not firing 'almost rifle' rounds.
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Old May 13th, 2010   #34
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The biggest issue is not the rifle (plenty of suitable options on the market), but ammunition. The UK military is happy enough with the much improved SA80, no need to replace until the wider community (NATO) decides which calibre to go with. Post Iraq/A-Stan, I suspect something between 5.56 and 7.62, possibly 6.8mm.
This is the critical question, untill they figure out a new round I doubt any major militaries will be replacing their combat rifles, any additional benefits are usually outweighed by the cost. SA-80 or G36E? M-16A2 or AK-74M? FA-MAS or Steyr AUG? Is there really all that much difference?

Untill we have a new calibur (likely something that hits harder than the 5.56 but has comparable in weight) why would you bother? That's why I never really understood the XM-8, as cool as it was.
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Old May 19th, 2010   #35
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british should be re-emerged old british round (4.85mm) actually 5mm or other britsh round (6.5mm or 7mm) for assault rifles and SAW rifle. i would not suspires that any NATO member turn back to 5.56mm or 7.62mm to new rounds as they outdate now. (NATO should be go re-evaluation NATO standard rounds)

i think britsh should go for ethier these rounds with accuracy bullpup rifle, as it is idea urban combat rifle and compact size.

G36KE are best option maybe AUG A3 too.

interest note- 4.85mm (lost to 5.56mm) and 6.5mm and 7mm (lost to 7.62mm) was best in NATO untill belgian 5.56mm late entry were narrow better, usa were use 5.56mm and 7.62mm - they urgency other countries follows usa standard round (as they already got in store).

4.85mm are exellette kinetic peneration due small but lack hit power as 5.56mm as heavy? as usa say it is under power (BUT in real test 500 and plus metres 4.85mm peneration body armour and helmet nato standard where 5.56mm fail peneration strange but fact)

6.5mm and 7mm are superior recoil ( more accuracy ) and kinetic peneration also lack hit power as 7.62mm? (british been told that 7.62mm are over power so lack accuracy and usa ingrone and go ahead) is it right?

(correct me if me wrong please as i forget somewhere i was read it)

http://www.quarry.nildram.co.uk/256brit.htm

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/m...6/ai_59281216/

(i find it)

Last edited by King_Typhoon; May 19th, 2010 at 08:43 PM. Reason: correct mistake and link souce statement
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Old May 31st, 2010   #36
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i dont think it will be replaced for some time yet the current budget will be exempt from the first cuts of the libservative government but we have a large hole to fill in our public finances.The l85 though is a fine weapon it think just modifying the l85 is all they will do. its like the us m16 series thats been around since the 60s . i think buying another rifle would be a waste of money and a wheel reinvention

although when the time comes i think a larger 6.8mm possibly in the shape of a g36 or maybe something like the new south korean oicw
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Old June 1st, 2010   #37
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i'd say anything we would use next would be with 7.62 or similar i havent yet seen anyone mention the ACR
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Old June 14th, 2010   #38
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I don't claim to be that much of an authority on assault rifles, but I think that if they want to stay NATO standard that they should go Tavor. If they are going to break with NATO, then they should go for something from the AK-100 series, Yet, I am a diehard AK fan.
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Old June 14th, 2010   #39
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I don't claim to be that much of an authority on assault rifles, but I think that if they want to stay NATO standard that they should go Tavor. If they are going to break with NATO, then they should go for something from the AK-100 series, Yet, I am a diehard AK fan.
The UK isn't likely to break from the NATO standard for a variety of reasons (politics, logistics, cost, tactical concerns (sound of rifle causing potential blue-on-blue), etc.). AKs, are at this point...highly unlikely.

Based off of a quick look at who the Tavor has been sold to in the past (special operation forces in Georgia, Portugal, etc.), it seems to me that the Tavor would likely be considered only by the UK's special/elite forces (i.e. Royal Marines, Paras, SAS). Granted, the sales to Israel and Thailand might suggest that the Tavor could prove appealing to the UK's regular army forces as well; but I think the UK will look elsewhere for its next AR.
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Old June 14th, 2010   #40
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Originally Posted by Kilo 2-3 View Post
The UK isn't likely to break from the NATO standard for a variety of reasons (politics, logistics, cost, tactical concerns (sound of rifle causing potential blue-on-blue), etc.). AKs, are at this point...highly unlikely.

Based off of a quick look at who the Tavor has been sold to in the past (special operation forces in Georgia, Portugal, etc.), it seems to me that the Tavor would likely be considered only by the UK's special/elite forces (i.e. Royal Marines, Paras, SAS). Granted, the sales to Israel and Thailand might suggest that the Tavor could prove appealing to the UK's regular army forces as well; but I think the UK will look elsewhere for its next AR.
The UK will not go for Tavor, it's not a step-change from the latest and upgraded version of the SA80. UK SF (SAS/SBS/SFSG) use the Canadian version of the US standard issue rifle, they are happy with that and see no need to change. The recent addition of the sharpshooter semi-auto 7.62mm rifle completes the circle at section level, with a hearty mix of 5.56mm, 7.62mm and 40mm munitions to play with. The UK would never go for an AK derivative, whilst reliable and easy to maintain, it's no way comparable in accuracy to the current batch of modern western designs.

The deciding factor will be NATO ammo changes, if and when that happens.
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Old June 16th, 2010   #41
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well see after the recession

Hey guys,
You all have good points. I think the change in weapon will follow change in calibre which in turn will follow firstly recessionary concerns receeding, Nato discussion and agreement, other defence acquisitions getting there priority meet.
6.5 and 6.8 must be the favourites but LSAT is certainly a major contender.
Came across this one though and I dont get how something so small and conceptually so simple can deliver on so much so take it with a grain of salt. Although it comes from Sweden and they are pretty clever there.
the new 6.5x25 CBJ cartridge

If it does work it would be a blessing to carry. But let me know if you know something about this, it has me curious. Just seems strange it can out penetrate 7.62 nato with recoil like 9mm.
Author of the website reckons its still alive in development.

Cheers

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Old June 17th, 2010   #42
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they wont change it for along time the budget is being cut and the tory in charge of defence now favors the navy the army will have cuts and will struggle keeping projects like fres let alone spending money on a new gun i think there wont be a new standard issue rifle for 10 years and by then who knows what kind of weapons and calibres will be around then. The sf have plenty of toys but standard issue wont change because the l85a2 is a good weapon why replace it with a tavor there very similar anyway. and just no to the ak just no.. although i like aks... just no lol
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Old June 19th, 2010   #43
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i'd say anything we would use next would be with 7.62 or similar i havent yet seen anyone mention the ACR
I am sure that british their not issues ACR design, because it was USA seek future assualt rifle for replace M4 and M16. (ACR vs SCAR-L, etc etc)

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Originally Posted by Kilo 2-3 View Post
The UK isn't likely to break from the NATO standard for a variety of reasons (politics, logistics, cost, tactical concerns (sound of rifle causing potential blue-on-blue), etc.). AKs, are at this point...highly unlikely.
i agreed that UK wont break NATO standard. that why i recommeced re-evalution round 9mm (pistol or submachine) also 5.56mm (assualt rifle), 7.62mm (machine gun) still it far away realism for re-evalution parts as they often slow progress.

p.s. personal - i think NATO are go slow disband soon, as they go quiet because (1) cold war are over for long time (2) often other countries against veto for iraq or afghan war.

i think they should go closed NATO and set up International alliance treat orgainse some thing like that (IATO) or worldwide protection treat.

only threat is, as we live in terriosim

we all not in threat like soviet was in cold war. just rogue countries or terriosim that all.

agreed or disagreed?

(hope you understand what i mean as my english are poor.... other note i am not expert just surf hobby of war stuff.)
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Old June 19th, 2010   #44
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AK-47

:d
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Old May 21st, 2012   #45
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L85A2 is not reliable enough. HK G11, the caseless one, may be a good choice. accuracy, light weight, high shooting speed, you name it. the only weakness is expenditure, around $2000 each rifle. but it could reduce for mass production.
There is no need to replace the SA80 it is perfectly fine although it was never as good as the SLR and why would the MOD replace it they have spent years perfecting it and chuck money down the drain?
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