Swedish army looking for possible replacer for AK5C, what should they go with?

Askulv

New Member
Hello! This is my first post here and I dind't know the right place in the forum for this thread; please move it to where it should be. Also, English isn’t my first language so I apologize in advance for any linguistically mistakes.

I don’t think you know this but Sweden is on the hunt for a replacement for the AK4B (G3A3), AK5C and AK5D (heavily modified versions of FN FNC 81) systems. The deal is on 20-25 000 units. The budget is 15Msek (2 310 960 USD) for testing the candidates and 350Msek (53 922 400 USD) – 450Msek (69 328 800 USD) for buying the system. This includes accessories such as magazines, sights etc.

What weapon systems could possibly win this deal?

Since the army haven't been speaking very freely on what criteria they have I'll make a short list so we get something to compare to.

Climate challenges:
Sweden has a very though winter in the northern parts (not this winter; where is our snow? :confused: ) so the system needs to be functional to -50C°; not only mechanically. It needs to work with big gloves and other winter equipment, this is really important.

It also needs to work on international missions such as Afghanistan and Somalia.

Calibre:
This is a tricky one. The new system is supposed to replace both the AK4 (chambered in 7.62×51mm NATO) and the AK5 (chambered in 5.56×45mm NATO) series. Most likely will they go with the 5.56 since 7.62 is only used by the home guard so we’ll assume that 5.56 is the calibre of choice.

NATO standards:
Due to extensive collaborations with NATO it is important that NATO standards are followed.

Weight:
The AK5C weights 4.5 kg (9.92 lb) loaded so anything under that is acceptable.

Fire modes:
Only semi and fully automatic is required. Burst was removed from the AK5 when modifying it to our requirements.

Other things:
Picatinny rails are a must.
The Weapon should work to some degree for both left and right handed soldiers.
Collapsible and foldable but stocks are preferred.

Source:
Projekt: AA.1180601 Förbered anskaffning av nytt eldhandvapensystem
Omfattning
Nytt eldhandvapen som ersättare till delar av dagens AK 4B och 5C/D skall anskaffas för materiel- och
studieförsök 2014–2016.
Kontrakt: 2014
Leveransperiod: 2014–2016
Kostnadsintervall: 5–15 Msek

Projekt: AA.1180602 Anskaffning av nytt eldhandvapensystem steg 1
Omfattning
Anskaffning av 20–25*000 eldhandvapensystem (vapen, siktessystem, tillbehör m.m.) med förserie
2017/2018 och leverans med början 2019.
Nytt eldhandvapensystem avses ersätta delar av dagens AK 5 familj och AK 4B.
Nordiskt samarbete eftersträvas.
Kontrakt: 2017
Leveransperiod: 2018–2022
Kostnadsintervall: 350-450 Msek
 
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Askulv

New Member
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #3
HK416/417 or a SCAR-L/H seems like the obvious choices. They're proven, mature enough systems.
The Norwegians have issues with their HK416, when going from hot to cold temperatures. Don't know if they fixed it but it don't look that good.

Then there is the issue with big gloves, I've never tested the HK416 but it seem to have a lot of small features on it, like the trigger guard. Will you even be able to get your infer in there with big gloves and if not, can the weapon be modified to make more room?
 

CB90

The Bunker Group
Verified Defense Pro
Honestly, with the customizability of today's modern rifles/carbines, just about any of them would make a good starting point. If cold weather operations is a requirement, it probably wouldn't be hard for the manufacturers to put out an extreme weather version. There is a big aftermarket industry in the US for that. As long as you can make sure the internals of the design work properly in extreme weather, the rest of it (ergonomics redesign) is relatively easy.
 

Askulv

New Member
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #7
G36 or G36KV or G36KE or base G36 and rest as per requirements (G36C ; G36E; G36K; +HK AG36 40mm l grenade launcher+ load of optics etc accessories)
is tested, approved system for our climate.
Yes, cheaper, yes lacks a bit of punch,
but for , weight, costs, reliability, balance
From what I understand the G36 series has serious issues with overheating. Apparently it becomes nearly useless at over 200 meters when shot hot.


Honestly, with the customizability of today's modern rifles/carbines, just about any of them would make a good starting point. If cold weather operations is a requirement, it probably wouldn't be hard for the manufacturers to put out an extreme weather version. There is a big aftermarket industry in the US for that. As long as you can make sure the internals of the design work properly in extreme weather, the rest of it (ergonomics redesign) is relatively easy.
Can that be done and kept within budget? And wouldn't it take a bit too long to wait for the rifles to be modified? The AK5C is at the very end of its technical life.
 

CB90

The Bunker Group
Verified Defense Pro
Can that be done and kept within budget? And wouldn't it take a bit too long to wait for the rifles to be modified? The AK5C is at the very end of its technical life.
You may be interested in checking out some of the big gun forums (like ar15.com). They're populated with gunsmiths and industry reps that have experience doing things like this, as well as some former military/law enforcement types (from many countries), including those with arctic warfare experience.

Having said that....how long did it take to modify the FNC to the AK5C? Obviously, FN was willing back then. 25,000 units is not an order any of the big manufacturers will walk away from at all, and their willingness to meet user specific requirements is a balancing act between the difficulty of meeting the request (in this case, probably pretty easy), and how bad they want it. For 25,000 rifles, you'd think they would have some folks machine up some modified control parts for testing. If they win the contract, then it really shouldn't be too hard to find somebody to take on the modified parts for mass production.
 

Askulv

New Member
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #10
Having said that....how long did it take to modify the FNC to the AK5C? Obviously, FN was willing back then. 25,000 units is not an order any of the big manufacturers will walk away from at all, and their willingness to meet user specific requirements is a balancing act between the difficulty of meeting the request (in this case, probably pretty easy), and how bad they want it. For 25,000 rifles, you'd think they would have some folks machine up some modified control parts for testing. If they win the contract, then it really shouldn't be too hard to find somebody to take on the modified parts for mass production.
It wasn't FN that did the modifications, it was made my a company now owned by SAAB, but they don't make small arms anymore, they say it don'tpay as much as canons etc. And since trials will be made this year it seem likean impossible task to get the modifications done in time.
 

Panther

New Member
Might be worth considering the Swiss SG 550 and variants. SCAR may be an option and possibly the F2000 although I've no idea how well it performs in cold conditions.
 
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