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PUMA - Ultimate IFV presentedThis is a discussion on PUMA - Ultimate IFV presented within the Army & Security Forces forum, part of the Global Defense & Military category; The first prototype of the new german IFV Puma was today presented in Kassel, Germany. The project is lead by ... |
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December 20th, 2005
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#2
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Junior Member
Sergeant
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Illinios, USA
Posts: 242
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Re: PUMA - Ultimate ifv presented
One as no doubt that the PUMA will be an excellent IFV. However, look also too the CV-90, 6 european customers with 1700 plus order, 30mm/35mm/50mm autocannon, its good extremely well. With the Spanish, austrians with their own desigh and the italians with there's I do not see the Puma doing well at all on the export market. This is not to detract from the quality of Puma's design, althought i am some what critial of its armament which i feel does not represent the current trends well.
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__________________
Dr Carl D. Vincent
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December 20th, 2005
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#3
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Administrator
General
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: GA, USA
Posts: 16,659
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Re: PUMA - Ultimate ifv presented
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December 20th, 2005
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#4
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Junior Member
Sergeant
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Illinios, USA
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Re: PUMA - Ultimate ifv presented
Quote:
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Originally Posted by WebMaster
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Great web-master, may I ask your opinion on the Puma's weapon fit ? Or am i breaking the rules.
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__________________
Dr Carl D. Vincent
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December 20th, 2005
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#5
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New Member
Private
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Germany
Posts: 25
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Re: PUMA - Ultimate ifv presented
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December 21st, 2005
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#6
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Junior Member
Corporal
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Singapore
Posts: 196
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Re: PUMA - Ultimate ifv presented
Quote:
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Originally Posted by ger_mark
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interesting - modular passive applique armour designed from stage 1. we should incorporate that into the Bionix. any tech specs on its weight class and air portablity, weapons outfit etc?
thanks in advance.
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December 21st, 2005
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#7
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Administrator
General
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: GA, USA
Posts: 16,659
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Re: PUMA - Ultimate ifv presented
Quote:
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Originally Posted by driftder
interesting - modular passive applique armour designed from stage 1. we should incorporate that into the Bionix. any tech specs on its weight class and air portablity, weapons outfit etc?
thanks in advance.
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Here you go:
Quote:
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The new Puma infantry fighting vehicle demonstrates once again Germany\'s paramount position in the domain of army technology. It sets the standard worldwide, as the following technical details make clear:
airportable in the future A400M transport plane;
rapid availability in the area of operations;
modular armour elements;
a single compartment for all occupants;
a compact, newly developed, extremely powerful engine;
highly effective mine protection;
a remote-controlled turret;
efficient armament for engaging all types of targets;
suitable as a platform for future applications;
interfaces for future systems (friend/foe identification, etc.)
Technical data:
maximum design weight: 43 tons
weight (Protection Level A): 31.45 tons
weight (Protection Level C): 40.7 tons
crew: 9 (6+3);
maximum road speed: 70 kilometres per hour
power to weight ratio: 20 kW/t;
length: 7,330 mm
width: 3,430 mm
total height: 3,050 mm
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December 21st, 2005
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#8
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New Member
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Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Germany
Posts: 25
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Re: PUMA - Ultimate ifv presented
puma is very well protected it is originally designed to withstand permanent 30mm fire and has probably a better protection then old russian mbt's im confused about its weaponary, puma should originally recive pars3 antitank missile (antitankmissile for ec tiger) but this project was cancelled by the green party in favour to MEADS maybe its getting continued under the new goverment but its unclear and i wonder what antitankmissile the puma will recive ,however the puma has most likely infrared stealth ( http://img229.imageshack.us/img229/4...09220345tt.jpg 2 leos on the move) but there are still too less informations about the puma 
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December 26th, 2005
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#9
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Senior Member
Lieutenant
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Australia
Posts: 511
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Re: PUMA - Ultimate ifv presented
The Puma IFV has its drawbacks, however most of them not part of the design itself.
One such thing is the limited ammo storage for the main gun, being only 200 initially and another 200 in reserve (but in combat the reserve might be out of grasp). The other thing is the choice of the MG-4 (5,45 mm) as secondary weapon. I think, a 7,62 mm MG would have been a better choice performancewise.
As for the AT missile, I doubt the Puma will ever receive any. Not in the foreseeable future at least.
Note that the protection level highly depends on the added armor plates. Protection level A means allround protection against 14,5 mm and partial protection (front, some other parts depending on direction of enemy fire) against 30 mm. Protection level C is the maximum defense, meaning allround against 30 mm and extended protection against RPG and other AT weapons.
The CV-90 is an excellent competitor and currently the more versatile vehicle, esp. with its different weapons mounts. Further evolutions and subtypes of the Puma are already on the drawing board, however it remains to be seen wether those will see service. Main drawback might be that the german forces are a little bit thin on the cash site and additional procurements beyond the ordered Pumas are unlikely. Time will tell...
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"It wasn't an invasion, merely an advance without consent through territory that technically didn't belong to us."
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December 29th, 2005
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#10
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Junior Member
Corporal
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Singapore
Posts: 196
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Re: PUMA - Ultimate ifv presented
after reading through what was posted on the Puma (Tracked) and the CV90, I went and dig around for some info. from what was posted at army-technology.com, I won't really like to be at the business end of the CV90/40 the version that the Swedes are using. that thing with its 40mm Bofors looks 'mean' and had been in service with the Swedes a looonngg time, so all the kinks and weirdness had probably been ironed out. where as the Puma (Tracked) had been just introduced with the advantage of newer technology but lets face it, when it comes to military hardware, no govt likes to gamble on the unknown.
add in what Turin had posted about the Puma's (Tracked) ammo shortcoming and I don't think it be well-received, though I like the level C armour protection. still if its ammo load can be increased, then I think the Puma(Tracked) will be rather well received. but if matched in a selection test against something like the CV90/40, it be a close call to choose.
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December 30th, 2005
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#11
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Junior Member
Sergeant
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Illinios, USA
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Re: PUMA - Ultimate ifv presented
I agree about the armament situation, the dutch CV-90 has a 35/50mm gun, the up-graded warrior will have a 40mm gun. Moreover, CV-90 and warrior all have up-grad-able Armour packages. After all Armour upgrading is a wide spread industry. Puma will not sell well, its too delayed. Still, i am sure its a fine vehicle, and i agree 5.45mm co-axial is way to light.
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Dr Carl D. Vincent
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January 17th, 2006
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#12
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Re: PUMA - Ultimate ifv presented
Sorry to resurrect an old thread, but here's my two cents: The Puma seems to be a response to recent conflicts which see heavy use of RPGs and IEDs, and little AFV vs. AFV battle. So for the German Army, it's well-suited. Light enough with its basic armor to be airlifted to a peacekeeping zone, where (if necessary) it can have the rest of its armor bolted on, still saving time compared to sealift. On the other hand, that all-round RPG protection and heavy AT mine protection should give the troops some happy thoughts.
As for armament, the 30mm cannon is about par for the course among AFVs these days. Only the Swedes armed their CV90s with the 40mm cannon, and everyone else has gone for 30mm or 35mm. Once the CTS or 30/50mm Supershot are ready, we may see some upgunning, but the Bundeswehr may do that, too. (Unlikely, since they never upgunned their Marders, but possible if the need to take out heavily-armored IFVs crops up.) The onboard ammunition stowage is more or less comparable to other designs, and one would like to think that modern sighting systems and airburst munitions would require less expenditure of ammunition. (At least, that argument sounds good during Pentagon PowerPoint presentations to the Budget Committee, right?)
Regarding the 5.56mm coax, that's apparently for commonality with the infantry squad. Since the infantry squad got rid of their 7.62mm MG3s, the coax would be the only 7.62mm rounds used, which the loggies don't like. This way, the infantry have a bunch of extra rounds to draw from if they run short. As for knockdown power, if there's something that the 5.56mm can't handle, there's always the 30mm cannon...
Despite all that, I agree that Puma will probably not export well. That's partly due to what I suspect will be a high price relative to other modern IFVs, and partly due to its late arrival. Who's due to buy a new IFV that hasn't already placed orders?
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December 31st, 2006
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#13
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New Member
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Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 20
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Does the Puma IFV has amphibious capabalities and how many infantry units can it carries?
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December 31st, 2006
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#14
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Junior Member
Sergeant
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jamesteo320
Does the Puma IFV has amphibious capabalities and how many infantry units can it carries?
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http://www.army-technology.com/projects/puma_tracked/
here you go, some good information. it carrier 8 troops, plus 3 crew and is not amphibious due to its heavy armour.
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__________________
Dr Carl D. Vincent
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December 31st, 2006
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#15
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Defense Professional / Analyst
General
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 3,110
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ger_mark
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Should be a good replacement for the Marders with good gun capabilities, it is not always the size of the gun but what is being fired out of it.
Does anybody know what Germany plans on doing with the Marder IFVs.
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