PLA Special Forces

Guardian52

New Member
I am writing a fiction novel about a hypothetical war between USA, PRC, and Iran as a proxy force. I am looking for information on the tactics, size, technology available to, and the TO&E of the Beijing Military Region Special Forces Unit - code named "Arrow". I am looking into this unit specifically because this novel I am writing has some science fiction aspects to it; and I figured if any unit in the PLA would gain access to new high-speed equipment, it would be this unit. Thank you for your time, if any of you have information on this subject it would be greatly appreciated.

"Mortis Prius Infamia"

-Guardian
 

Bonza

Super Moderator
Staff member
I am writing a fiction novel about a hypothetical war between USA, PRC, and Iran as a proxy force. I am looking for information on the tactics, size, technology available to, and the TO&E of the Beijing Military Region Special Forces Unit - code named "Arrow". I am looking into this unit specifically because this novel I am writing has some science fiction aspects to it; and I figured if any unit in the PLA would gain access to new high-speed equipment, it would be this unit. Thank you for your time, if any of you have information on this subject it would be greatly appreciated.

"Mortis Prius Infamia"

-Guardian
Honestly mate you might be in for some hard yards on this one. I've seen very, very little information I'd call credible on how Western top-tier special forces such as Delta, SAS etc operate, and I know only a very little of how my own country's special forces, Australian SASR and the Commandos operate, outside of some surface detail (SASR being more recon, Comandos more as a "kick your door in and kill everyone" operation, typically deployed in much larger numbers than SASR). Anything detailed on the Chinese special forces is likely to be classified I would imagine, so you might have to exercise some creative license as far as that goes. Believe me, a civilian Western audience wouldn't know the difference.

One of the few details I've picked up that I've thought is interesting is that apparently (happy to be corrected on this one) is the Chinese spec ops seem to have followed their Western brethren and make use of an M4-derivative carbine rather than the standard 5.8mm bullpup used by the bulk of the infantry. I think there's probably something to be said for the flexibility and interoperability of the platform there, but it doesn't really tell you anything about how they operate (except perhaps they intend interoperability with some unlikely partners).

Other than that it's really hard to tell what's smoke and mirrors and what's real, and I'd say they're probably one of the least known groups in the Chinese military - most open source data I've seen has been on missile capabilities, with good reason (they're a huge part of China's anti-access strategy). So I dunno, some people on here might have a better idea, especially Feanor (although he's more of an encyclopedia on Russian gear if you're after that), and Feng's blog can be a great source, as good as you'll find open-source, for my money. See how you go but be prepared to have to play it pretty fast and loose with it when it comes to the fiction. Personally I'd expect the Chinese special forces to to the majority if not all of the personal kit the Western ones do, it's probably not hard to develop - I may be incorrect on that especially comms and encryption sort of things.

Sorry to not be of more help. All the best mate.
 

Belesarius

New Member
Honestly mate you might be in for some hard yards on this one. I've seen very, very little information I'd call credible on how Western top-tier special forces such as Delta, SAS etc operate, and I know only a very little of how my own country's special forces, Australian SASR and the Commandos operate, outside of some surface detail (SASR being more recon, Comandos more as a "kick your door in and kill everyone" operation, typically deployed in much larger numbers than SASR). Anything detailed on the Chinese special forces is likely to be classified I would imagine, so you might have to exercise some creative license as far as that goes. Believe me, a civilian Western audience wouldn't know the difference.

One of the few details I've picked up that I've thought is interesting is that apparently (happy to be corrected on this one) is the Chinese spec ops seem to have followed their Western brethren and make use of an M4-derivative carbine rather than the standard 5.8mm bullpup used by the bulk of the infantry. I think there's probably something to be said for the flexibility and interoperability of the platform there, but it doesn't really tell you anything about how they operate (except perhaps they intend interoperability with some unlikely partners).

Other than that it's really hard to tell what's smoke and mirrors and what's real, and I'd say they're probably one of the least known groups in the Chinese military - most open source data I've seen has been on missile capabilities, with good reason (they're a huge part of China's anti-access strategy). So I dunno, some people on here might have a better idea, especially Feanor (although he's more of an encyclopedia on Russian gear if you're after that), and Feng's blog can be a great source, as good as you'll find open-source, for my money. See how you go but be prepared to have to play it pretty fast and loose with it when it comes to the fiction. Personally I'd expect the Chinese special forces to to the majority if not all of the personal kit the Western ones do, it's probably not hard to develop - I may be incorrect on that especially comms and encryption sort of things.

Sorry to not be of more help. All the best mate.
I've got a guy I can check with who might have a bit of information. I'll see what I can find.
 

Feanor

Super Moderator
Staff member
So I dunno, some people on here might have a better idea, especially Feanor (although he's more of an encyclopedia on Russian gear if you're after that)
Sorry, but in this area I am deficient. I generally know only a little about China.
 

Ranger25

Active Member
Staff member
Honestly mate you might be in for some hard yards on this one. I've seen very, very little information I'd call credible on how Western top-tier special forces such as Delta, SAS etc operate, and I know only a very little of how my own country's special forces, Australian SASR and the Commandos operate, outside of some surface detail (SASR being more recon, Comandos more as a "kick your door in and kill everyone" operation, typically deployed in much larger numbers than SASR). Anything detailed on the Chinese special forces is likely to be classified I would imagine, so you might have to exercise some creative license as far as that goes. Believe me, a civilian Western audience wouldn't know the difference.

One of the few details I've picked up that I've thought is interesting is that apparently (happy to be corrected on this one) is the Chinese spec ops seem to have followed their Western brethren and make use of an M4-derivative carbine rather than the standard 5.8mm bullpup used by the bulk of the infantry. I think there's probably something to be said for the flexibility and interoperability of the platform there, but it doesn't really tell you anything about how they operate (except perhaps they intend interoperability with some unlikely partners).

Other than that it's really hard to tell what's smoke and mirrors and what's real, and I'd say they're probably one of the least known groups in the Chinese military - most open source data I've seen has been on missile capabilities, with good reason (they're a huge part of China's anti-access strategy). So I dunno, some people on here might have a better idea, especially Feanor (although he's more of an encyclopedia on Russian gear if you're after that), and Feng's blog can be a great source, as good as you'll find open-source, for my money. See how you go but be prepared to have to play it pretty fast and loose with it when it comes to the fiction. Personally I'd expect the Chinese special forces to to the majority if not all of the personal kit the Western ones do, it's probably not hard to develop - I may be incorrect on that especially comms and encryption sort of things.

Sorry to not be of more help. All the best mate.
Bonza, you're right on the money. Not only are their weapons modeled after Western SOF, but their entire Kit and tactics are as well.

Very similar structure etc
 

OPSSG

Super Moderator
Staff member
I am looking for information on the tactics, size, technology available to, and the TO&E of the Beijing Military Region Special Forces Unit - code named "Arrow".
You ask difficult questions and I don't have a specific answer to them. I also do not want to cause unintentional offence to people who have not done the requisite wider background research to provide a context - besides the fact that I am not tracking the development of PLA's special forces.

However, I will tell you that your information is slightly out of date - the PLA is no longer using the concept of Military Regions. Last month, the PLA announced the restructuring of its seven geographically-based Military Regions (or 大军区, aka "dajun qu"), into Battle Zones (or 战区, aka "zhan qu"). These four or more "zhan qu" allow the PLA to react to a more diverse range of security threats and better project its forces and are broadly modeled after unified combatant commands (with a link to a flawed discussion on the topic) of the US Department of Defense.

Further, much of PLA's so called "special forces" are not resourced or structured like US (eg. US SOCOM) or UK SAS and SBS. More often than not, press reports fail to distinguish between PLA "special forces" who are elite troops with niche raid or direct action capabilities (i.e. look the part, with interesting personal gear) and real PLA special forces, who are in contact with special forces in the region. Even then and despite similarity in load-outs and personal weapons, PLA special forces are also without the same training budget for currency training in the range of missions (be it green side or black ops) or supplied with dedicated enablers (like 160th SOAR), when compared to US Tier-One forces.

More than just taking part in special forces competitions (in which Chinese SF teams have taken part and won), silent professionals also talk about military-to-military relationships (including foreign language skills), logistics, ISR and command and control (C2). This would include reading up on the US concept of F3EAD or find, fix, finish, exploit, analyze, and disseminate. The PLA's raise, train and sustain cycle also needs to be stated, studied and analysed before meaningful discussions can be made. Certainly, the PLA's capability has grown by leaps and bounds over the years and they now have enablers to project power abroad. The PLAN have amphibious task groups with a demonstrated capability to project power abroad - most recently in April 2015 in Yemen, where they conducted non-combatant evacuation of 600 citizens and 225 foreign nationals, smoothly. Now that the PLAN have an opertational carrier, their ability to project power will continue to grow even more rapidly.

PLA special forces have also taken part in ADMM Plus special forces exercises, the most recent of which was hosted in Indonesia (with US support) in 2013 or so. Australia and Singapore are the current co-chairs of the expert working group on counter-terrorism and it is under these ADMM Plus expert working group auspices that the PLA special forces attend regional conferences on this subject matter. And ADMM Plus was created to support inclusive military-to-military cooperation (on a range of areas/topics) between ASEAN and plus 8 countries (which includes China, US and Australia to name a few).

At President Xi’s speech at the "Commemoration of 70th Anniversary of War Victory” (see translated link provided) on 3 September 2015, he announced that China will cut the number of its troops by 300,000. This restructure will enable PLA to become more professional over time, as more resources are allocated to new equipment acquisition and training.

I am of the view that you can't understand the PLA without understanding the PLA's revolutionary spirit, or what they call 井冈山 精神(jinggangshan jingshen) - is likewise shaped by a history deeply rooted in strategies to liberate its own masses from "internal contradictions" and foreign occupiers. You might want to do better research on the basics, and share them over a period of a few months (see this closed 2013 forum thread which deals with some queries on special forces in Southeast Asia), before asking more questions (aka contribute to the forum)?

You can start with this September 2015 article on the PLA by Michael S. Chase. Good luck with your research and I hope that these pointers will help.
 
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Belesarius

New Member
I am writing a fiction novel about a hypothetical war between USA, PRC, and Iran as a proxy force. I am looking for information on the tactics, size, technology available to, and the TO&E of the Beijing Military Region Special Forces Unit - code named "Arrow". I am looking into this unit specifically because this novel I am writing has some science fiction aspects to it; and I figured if any unit in the PLA would gain access to new high-speed equipment, it would be this unit. Thank you for your time, if any of you have information on this subject it would be greatly appreciated.

"Mortis Prius Infamia"

-Guardian
I did a check with my Chinese military guy. He didn't have any information on this unit that he was able to share.
 

Guardian52

New Member
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #8
Thanks for that. I've never heard of that weapon system you're referring to, I'll definitely look in to that. As far as western SOF units are concerned; I've run across a handful of first hand sources in the USA SpecOps community. They have given me some excellent advice on how the Brits and the US conduct HVT raids and things of that nature; which will be a primary aspect of my book. The books "Inside Delta Force" by Eric L. Haney, and "The Mission, The Men, and Me" by Pete Blaber are both excellent lenses into the missions, TO&E, and history of the 1st SFOD-D, and even a little bit on the Britsh 22nd SAS. Thanks for your help, it's good to know somebody is interested. Look for more from me on this forum in the future.

"Mortis Prius Infamia"

-Guardian
 

Guardian52

New Member
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #9
Bonza, you're right on the money. Not only are their weapons modeled after Western SOF, but their entire Kit and tactics are as well.

Very similar structure etc
Howdy, do you know what the M4 style rifle is called? Like a make and model?
Thanks

"Mortis Prius Infamia"

-Guardian
 

Guardian52

New Member
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #10
Bonza said:
Honestly mate you might be in for some hard yards on this one. I've seen very, very little information I'd call credible on how Western top-tier special forces such as Delta, SAS etc operate, and I know only a very little of how my own country's special forces, Australian SASR and the Commandos operate, outside of some surface detail (SASR being more recon, Comandos more as a "kick your door in and kill everyone" operation, typically deployed in much larger numbers than SASR). Anything detailed on the Chinese special forces is likely to be classified I would imagine, so you might have to exercise some creative license as far as that goes. Believe me, a civilian Western audience wouldn't know the difference.
One of the few details I've picked up that I've thought is interesting is that apparently (happy to be corrected on this one) is the Chinese spec ops seem to have followed their Western brethren and make use of an M4-derivative carbine rather than the standard 5.8mm bullpup used by the bulk of the infantry. I think there's
probably something to be said for the flexibility and interoperability of the platform there, but it doesn't really tell you anything about how they operate (except perhaps they intend interoperability with some unlikely partners).


Sorry to not be of more help. All the best mate.
Thanks for that. I've never heard of that weapon system you're referring to, I'll definitely look in to that. As far as western SOF units are concerned; I've run across a handful of first hand sources in the USA SpecOps community. They have given me some excellent advice on how the Brits and the US conduct HVT raids and things of that nature; which will be a primary aspect of my book. The books "Inside Delta Force" by Eric L. Haney, and "The Mission, The Men, and Me" by Pete Blaber are both excellent lenses into the missions, TO&E, and history of the 1st SFOD-D, and even a little bit on the Britsh 22nd SAS. Thanks for your help, it's good to know somebody is interested. Look for more from me on this forum in the future.

"Mortis Prius Infamia"

-Guardian
 

Guardian52

New Member
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #11
You ask difficult questions and I don't have a specific answer to them. I also do not want to cause unintentional offence to people who have not done the requisite wider background research to provide a context - besides the fact that I am not tracking the development of PLA's special forces.

You might want to do better research on the basics, and share them over a period of a few months (see this closed 2013 forum thread which deals with some queries on special forces in Southeast Asia), before asking more questions (aka contribute to the forum)?

You can start with this September 2015 article on the PLA by . Good luck with your research and I hope that these pointers will help.
Awesome. Thank you, this is all good stuff. But remember, this is my first post to the forum and the intent was to test the water. Obviously I'm going to do more research and these pointers will absolutely help.
Thanks for everything.

"Mortis Prius Infamia"

-Guardian
 

Guardian52

New Member
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #13
Article states that Norinco makes an M4 variant for their SOF. Seen here competing with them in Jordan at the 5th annual Warrior completion

Thank you, I'll be using this. Sorry for the late reply btw.
 
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