Pakistani army to get 12 new Russian MI-17 choppers

P.A.F

New Member
Govt procures 13 Russian choppers


ISLAMABAD, June 6: The government has purchased 13 new MI-17 helicopters from Russia, including 12 for the Army, for $50.7 million, informed sources told Dawn. They said Pakistan had done the deal with the Kazan Helicopter Plant through a UK-based firm and the last consignment of four choppers had reached Pakistan three days ago.

The UK firm had won the contract in 2003 by submitting the second lowest bid of $3.9 million for a helicopter, the sources said. The lowest bid of $3.4 million for each helicopter, they said, was given by a local firm. But it had failed to submit the earnest money of $1 million at the time of bidding.

Twelve choppers had been purchased for the Army and its allied departments, and one for Punjab Governor Khalid Maqbool, the sources said. The Balochistan governor, they said, had also requisitioned for an official helicopter and a bidding for its purchase would be held soon.

According to the audit report on the accounts of defence services (DP Division) 2001-2002, the Army had already purchased 12 MI-17 helicopters from the same Russian plant in 1995.

The sources said Pakistan had given an extensive shopping list of military hardware to the US which also included 120 choppers for the aviation wing of the Army. The phased delivery of the choppers would commence by the end of 2004.

Four or five choppers of the fresh lot would be sent to Wana, they said. When contacted, National Crisis Management Cell Chairman Brig Javed Iqbal Cheema said he was not exactly aware of the purchase of helicopters.

But he denied that the helicopters were being sent to Wana for any fresh operation against tribesmen or foreign militants. "The Army has sufficient logistics to conduct any operation in Wana," he added.

Inter Services Public Relations (ISPR) chief Maj-Gen Shaukat Sultan confirmed the purchase of the helicopters, but he also rejected an impression that the choppers were acquired for Wana.

"That was a routine purchase of the Army and acquisition of logistic facilities and other goods for the Army are not made for any specific operation," he said. He said the deal for the purchase of helicopters might have been finalized some years ago when there was nothing in Wana.
 

mysterious

New Member
Because, Mi-17s have their own advantages and Black Hawks their own! (Plus, current Black Hawks have a certain glitch in them and so they are prone to malfunctioning and then crashing and so that glitch is being removed in the newly built versions of Black Hawks which I doubt the US would give Pakistan for now just like it wont give Apaches to Pakistan). :smokingc:
 

corsair7772

New Member
Verified Defense Pro
Wait a minute. The article sayz delivery would commence in 2004. The delivery of the Mi-17s or the helicopters from the pakistani shopping list sent to th USA?

And plus doesnt china also produce these helicopters or did it just buy them?
 

lalith prasad

Banned Member
the latest version of mi17-1v of which 40 were acquired by the iaf after the kargil war is equipped with a max range of 1200 kms and an operational range of 590kms max speed of 150kts max cruising speed of 144 kts.it has 1 12.7mm chin mounted machine guns six uv57 57mm unguided rocket pods and 16vikhr-v(at-16) anti tank missiles these missiles have atleast 6km range .well this helicopter packs quite a punch .during the kargil war 1 older version of this helicopter was shot down by what is beleived to be pakistan anza missile9( shoulder fired sam) the helicopters was fitted with israeli designed countermissiles it is beleived that it took 16 missiles to bring it down.after the war one more halicopter was fired at carrying media personnel to the site where the atlantic was shot down in he kutch region but it escaped thanks to its countermeasures after that all indian including the new mi17s were fitted with an mproved version of israeli countermeasures these helicopters were also reported to be used at the hillkaka operations
 

lalith prasad

Banned Member
oops sorry according to bharat rakshak it was apakistani stinger missile which shot it down also india is eveluating eh101 indian army placed a proposal for acquiring 60 of then along with fennec helicopters .fennec will replace lamas and cheetahs of the iaf in coin ,armed scout and training roles .atleast 200 will have to be acquired if india has to replace all its alouettes .a109 is also being evaluated .i would prefer a109 .last heard that a team was sent to evaluate these machines .nothing more has been heard since.russia also offered to sell india ka50-2 attack helicopters however i dont think it will be acquired as india is developing its own attack helicopter with israeli assistance and has already upgraded their mi32s with israeli assistance.india is strengthenig its heli borne forces.
 

adsH

New Member
i think its simply because PAkistan has 17 of these inservice already!! cheaper to buy these and induct. these have been delivered, i think they had 17 of these before the new 13 came in, one extra is for the Governor of Punjab, these are cheap and effect troop carrier, the 120 choppers form the US are supposed to be for the Army Air wing too but they are attack Heli like cobras, at the moment Pak is not trying to buy anything that would require excessive training or New logistical setup therfore saving time and money. the Mi17 costed 3.4 million a piece and literlly no induction cost. :)
 
A

Aussie Digger

Guest
Mysterious, do you have any info on the problem you mentioned with the Blackhawks? The Australian Army (and Air Force prior to that) have operated Blackhawks since the mid to late 80's and 3 have crashed, but this was not due to some mysterious (no pun intended) fault, but rather pilot error. Even so, 3 aircraft crashes in nearly 18 years of operation is a pretty good ratio. I doubt many other countries could equal this effort.
 

Gremlin29

Super Moderator
Staff member
Verified Defense Pro
Without question cost was the motivating factor. The Hip is an antiquated machine however, that is lacking in alot of areas for a tactical aircraft. But for 3.9 million they are getting a ship with decent lift capabilities.

Being a Blackhawk pilot myself, I would be tremendously interested in knowing about said problems as I am quite unaware of any.
 

mysterious

New Member
I dont have the specific details on the problems that the current Black Hawks have or may be its a certain 'batch' of 'em. I read this article like, quite a while back and cant find it now. According to it, the number of Black Hawk mishaps recently in Afghanistan and Iraq (more than what would be on average the collisions or crashing rate for such a copter) were due to a glitch in its technical stuff and the company responsible for producing them (is it Grunman or someone else, cant remember) found what the problem was and it was being taken care of in the newer Black Hawks being built as well as older Black Hawks were being called in for the upgrade!! I'm just telling you guyz what I read, no exaggerations. :smokingc:
 

mysterious

New Member
Thnx for helping me out but I'm sure this wasn't the place I read the news. Its been reported by a lot of other websites and with more insight. Thnx anywayz man! :smokingc:
 

joker

New Member
Yep its mainly down to the cost factor and already existing infrastructure to support the Mi17s like Adsh mentioned. Never personally liked the Mi17s myself but was speaking to an operator and he said the Mi17s actually handle a lot better than the Pumas!! Plus they are capable of operating the Mi17s up north e.g. Gilgit, Siachen where the Pumas and Huey's struggle quite a bit etc.

Black Hawks are not available to us Mysterious. They require Congressional approval.
 

adsH

New Member
joker said:
Yep its mainly down to the cost factor and already existing infrastructure to support the Mi17s like Adsh mentioned. Never personally liked the Mi17s myself but was speaking to an operator and he said the Mi17s actually handle a lot better than the Pumas!! Plus they are capable of operating the Mi17s up north e.g. Gilgit, Siachen where the Pumas and Huey's struggle quite a bit etc.

Black Hawks are not available to us Mysterious. They require Congressional approval.
you don't need congressional approval anymore!! hope so !!

i think the Mi17 has alot more chopper blades for its propeller what ever you callem dont you think so. i think thats what gives it the extra lift in thin Air.
 

Gremlin29

Super Moderator
Staff member
Verified Defense Pro
Actually the number of rotor blades is predicated on how a number of factors line up. Basically large helicopters use multiple blades because you cant make a double blade system with blades long and wide enough to create the neccesary lift. So, they use multiple long narrow blades. In essence you have to generate X number of pounds of lift per square foot of rotor blade. Wide fat blades will begin to generate more drag than lift as the blades have larger angles of attack introduced to them via collective and or cyclic pitch. The engines ability to produce shaft horsepower and the transmissions ability to utilize said power are the two factors that limit lift capability. Helicopter pilots measure power via torque and it is the torque meter that you watch like a hawk during takeoff, landings and hovering maneuvers. The Mi 17 is not a nimble helicopter by any stretch of the imagination but it was designed to be a workhorse and that is something that it does quite well.

I've flown Hueys up to 10,000 ft ASL and the controls become very sloppy and sluggish, that's because of the double blade none articulated rotor system. A multiblade articulated head will definately perform better, especially at higher altitudes.
 
A

Aussie Digger

Guest
That article referred to a quality control issue with replacement parts for the Blackhawk. Not some systemic fault with the Blackhawk design. Blackhawk's have proven themselves as one of the best, if not the best tactical transport helicopter in the world for the past 20 years or so. It's not perfect, but is probably the closest thing to it, as far as helicopters go. Australia (apart from a lack of spare parts which was a funding issue, not a problem with the aircraft or manufacturer) has been very pleased with the performance of it's Blackhawks and it's very likely that the new version of the Blackhawk will be chosen in the ADF's helicopter replacement program (AIR 9000) a decision about which is expected very soon, (though I personally hope the Eurocopter MH-90 is chosen).... Cheers.
 

joker

New Member
Interesting stuff Gremlin.......

Adsh,
Im afraid that new build Black Hawks do require Congressional approval as any order placed by Pakistan will be under the FMS. Only surplus equipment can be transferred through EDA for which an executive decision awarding the MNNA status comes in. I dont think the US have any surplus Black Hawks. Damn shame love those birds.
 

mysterious

New Member
I like the current ones and am hoping to 'love' the newer ones when they come off the production line. Hope Pakistan tries getting some of those and some Apaches (and not remain contended with Cobras). :smokingc:
 

P.A.F

New Member
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
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we have got some russian type of gunship in our army or airforce already. i don't think we will be getting apaches. the best we can get is the cobra.
 

lalith prasad

Banned Member
mi 17 is a very rugged helicopter however be carefull that it does not land in the sea or is operated in salty environments without periodic mainenance .it will disintegrate very quickly a lot of mg components.
 
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