(I'm putting this here since most of the machines mentioned are land based)
I'm a South African living in cape town near Simonstown ,I want to get some foriegn opinions here
Ok I understand our equipment isn't the best ,and of right now I'd have to rate our army
below Jamaica ,because since peace broke out here ,training has basically become non existant
and maintance standards and fitness levels have dropped to holiday camp standards.
But I'm interested to get some opinions on our equipment ,I've got a few issues I want
cleared up and will dig up some operational stories on several of these machines
I'll supply a list here of the ones I'm interested getting opinions on.
1) Ratel APC
2) Rooikat
3) Oliphant Mk3 and the Oliphant 2
3) Umkonto point defence missile system
4) Mokopa anti armour missile
5) ZT3 Anti armour missile
6) Rooivalk (Although I think this helicopter has been shelved now due to costs)
7) G6-SP ,G6-52-SP artillary
8) Mamba armoured car (This seems to be used in large numbers in Iraq lately)
9) Meko stealth ships]
10) Type 209 submarines
Those Meko stealth ships are really impressive ,I went abord the one during the Navys yearly
show here and I must say they are very impressive ,the hull gives you that solid knock sound
when you bang on it so you know thats serious armour ,and you can see the german engineering on
this thing ,the smallest pipe is sheathed to prevent any sort of banging ,I assume there is some
sort of silent running mode like a submarine would have since the stealth should hide it
fairly well on the surface.
They are armed with harpoons and umkontos and a single nose mounted cannon ,they recently
sent one of our old strike craft to the bottom of the sea to test the Harpoon systems.
The Type 209 submarines we haven't recieved yet and I don't have any information on them ,does
anybody know anything about these ? I do know they are being BUILT vs being second hand
and thats from official sources.
The Ratels ,I think they by chance struck gold with a bush warefare APC because its height which
in any other terrain would be a problem ,enables the ratel to spot targets before they spot the
Ratel ,I know somebody who served as a ratel driver and gunner and he says these things ride
like rolls royces over rough terrain ,smooth ,their suspension is really good ,although they
do have some serious flaws ,like on the 90mm cannon version ,which is the most numerous version
it has to disengage the gears to shoot or the transmission would be damaged ,the transmission can
take a few knocks from the cannon ,I saw some green troops do that and the ratel kept going but
too many shots and its gone ,this was drilled into the troops until it became second nature,and probably
the biggest problem was that 23mm russian anti aircraft guns could make swiss cheese out of a ratel.
And there were alot of shilkas and the twin barreled static air defence guns around angola.
That said ,in Ratel vs T-55 tank battles the ratel managed to come out on top in the majority
of the cases.
He also mentioned he could hit barrels spot on from 2Km away with the 90mm cannon.
On the G6.....
I once caught a thread somewhere where they were carrying on about the G6's poor mobility and
how it had bad ground clearance and was actually a aircraft tractor ,now having checked all this up
afterwards I must say I look at opinions on the internet in a new light because all of that is
just plain junk ,I still dont know why they would make all that up ?
Coming from the actual guys who drove G6's deep into Angola and back I can only conclude the things
mobility is actually very good ,these guys said that they found while smashing through the bush to
their firing positions that the G6 was the best vehicle to act as the Bush breaker (the Vehicle
leading the colum and breaking down trees in the way)
And according to them they suffered only one tire change throughout the whole trip ,although
you must consider the tires have regulators and I'm sure have some sort of armour in the rubber.
The Aircaft tractor thing is also rubbish ,the thing was purpous built and I've never seen a
aircraft tractor even half the size! I once passed one the road ,it had its one tire about
2 meters into the gravel off the side yet it was still a half meter into my side of the
road!
It shape is guided around ammunition storage and the jacks and armoured slopes! where did they
come to an aircraft tractor? Internet clowns! ,sheees!..... ahem! cough!....ok next....
The Oliphant 2 ,I dont know if they are making these or if its just a single demonstration tank
Note: I dont mean that TTD tank but the Olifant 2 with the angular turret.
I assume its equipped with composite armour since its heading down that angular looking road.
if the picture is anything to go by ,the turret ,at least ,seems very heavly armoured ,and it has
a few systems inspired no doubt by the Abrahams like Wind meters and seperated ammo compartment etc..
,plus all the usual thermal vision ,lazer range finders ,stabilization ,lead assistance and warning
systems etc... And fanfare is being made about its "Hunter Killer mode"
Hunter killer as far as I can tell from an Israeli site appears to be the ability to actually
lock onto a target ,kind of like a Fighter jet ,and have the computer track it ,the Merkava 4
takes this further and tracks the target even if the computer looses sight of the target!.
I think it compares the landscape in its navigational map and works out where the target should be
given its last known speed and direction! Wow!.
The Oliphant Mk3 is the version PREVIOUS to the Oliphant 2 and in any modern battlefield should
rather be used as a LGB/ATGM magnet than a tank containing people but aside from that I'm under
the impression it would stack up favorably against a T-72 since it has much better armour and
the 105mm served the israelis well in Tank on Tank battles ,I know our tanks squashed any tanks
the ran into ,I dont know if that included T-72's but they were used in angola since we did
capture at least one T-72 I know of.
The Rooivalk looks like its sung its swan song ,but in the contracts it was vying for I heard
the testers commented that several of its systems were more advanced that its competitors in those
contracts ,the competing copters were the Tiger ,the Apache and Russias alligator if I remember
right.
I clearly remember they said they would take the rooivalk over the others if we could
supply it with Hellfires ,which naturally the USA said stuff you to! but I heard the guy say
that on the news myself.
One system they noted as the best out of them all ,and to me would seem to be the most critical was
the target locating and tracking system which apparently outranged even the Apaches!
IE :could locate further or harder to see targets
So am I wrong in saying this is...er...was the better helicopter?
In addition to the better target system the Mokopa missile that would be used with it out preformed
the Hellfire in Range and I think even carried a larger warhead so would have made full use of the
advantage ,what do you think ?
The Mamba on paper doesn't sound too good ,its said to be too bouncy ,underpowered and slow ,but
The thing is considered by the mercanaries in Iraq to be THE vehicle to be in when you are being
attacked by the rebels/insurgents/whatever ,and around May I heard the US Military as bought
a whopping +100 of them for use in Iraq ,whats you opinion of them ?
The ZT3 missile was used in Angola here and there and the one instance saw a ZT3 ratel take on
2 T-55's and knocked them out with the usual effect of blowing the turret far into the air as
most Nato ATGM's do ,there's photos of this incident I'll need to dig them up again.
The Rooikat has never been tested in combat ,but apparently its considered the best in its
class world wide ,any opinions on it ?
I'm a South African living in cape town near Simonstown ,I want to get some foriegn opinions here
Ok I understand our equipment isn't the best ,and of right now I'd have to rate our army
below Jamaica ,because since peace broke out here ,training has basically become non existant
and maintance standards and fitness levels have dropped to holiday camp standards.
But I'm interested to get some opinions on our equipment ,I've got a few issues I want
cleared up and will dig up some operational stories on several of these machines
I'll supply a list here of the ones I'm interested getting opinions on.
1) Ratel APC
2) Rooikat
3) Oliphant Mk3 and the Oliphant 2
3) Umkonto point defence missile system
4) Mokopa anti armour missile
5) ZT3 Anti armour missile
6) Rooivalk (Although I think this helicopter has been shelved now due to costs)
7) G6-SP ,G6-52-SP artillary
8) Mamba armoured car (This seems to be used in large numbers in Iraq lately)
9) Meko stealth ships]
10) Type 209 submarines
Those Meko stealth ships are really impressive ,I went abord the one during the Navys yearly
show here and I must say they are very impressive ,the hull gives you that solid knock sound
when you bang on it so you know thats serious armour ,and you can see the german engineering on
this thing ,the smallest pipe is sheathed to prevent any sort of banging ,I assume there is some
sort of silent running mode like a submarine would have since the stealth should hide it
fairly well on the surface.
They are armed with harpoons and umkontos and a single nose mounted cannon ,they recently
sent one of our old strike craft to the bottom of the sea to test the Harpoon systems.
The Type 209 submarines we haven't recieved yet and I don't have any information on them ,does
anybody know anything about these ? I do know they are being BUILT vs being second hand
and thats from official sources.
The Ratels ,I think they by chance struck gold with a bush warefare APC because its height which
in any other terrain would be a problem ,enables the ratel to spot targets before they spot the
Ratel ,I know somebody who served as a ratel driver and gunner and he says these things ride
like rolls royces over rough terrain ,smooth ,their suspension is really good ,although they
do have some serious flaws ,like on the 90mm cannon version ,which is the most numerous version
it has to disengage the gears to shoot or the transmission would be damaged ,the transmission can
take a few knocks from the cannon ,I saw some green troops do that and the ratel kept going but
too many shots and its gone ,this was drilled into the troops until it became second nature,and probably
the biggest problem was that 23mm russian anti aircraft guns could make swiss cheese out of a ratel.
And there were alot of shilkas and the twin barreled static air defence guns around angola.
That said ,in Ratel vs T-55 tank battles the ratel managed to come out on top in the majority
of the cases.
He also mentioned he could hit barrels spot on from 2Km away with the 90mm cannon.
On the G6.....
I once caught a thread somewhere where they were carrying on about the G6's poor mobility and
how it had bad ground clearance and was actually a aircraft tractor ,now having checked all this up
afterwards I must say I look at opinions on the internet in a new light because all of that is
just plain junk ,I still dont know why they would make all that up ?
Coming from the actual guys who drove G6's deep into Angola and back I can only conclude the things
mobility is actually very good ,these guys said that they found while smashing through the bush to
their firing positions that the G6 was the best vehicle to act as the Bush breaker (the Vehicle
leading the colum and breaking down trees in the way)
And according to them they suffered only one tire change throughout the whole trip ,although
you must consider the tires have regulators and I'm sure have some sort of armour in the rubber.
The Aircaft tractor thing is also rubbish ,the thing was purpous built and I've never seen a
aircraft tractor even half the size! I once passed one the road ,it had its one tire about
2 meters into the gravel off the side yet it was still a half meter into my side of the
road!
It shape is guided around ammunition storage and the jacks and armoured slopes! where did they
come to an aircraft tractor? Internet clowns! ,sheees!..... ahem! cough!....ok next....
The Oliphant 2 ,I dont know if they are making these or if its just a single demonstration tank
Note: I dont mean that TTD tank but the Olifant 2 with the angular turret.
I assume its equipped with composite armour since its heading down that angular looking road.
if the picture is anything to go by ,the turret ,at least ,seems very heavly armoured ,and it has
a few systems inspired no doubt by the Abrahams like Wind meters and seperated ammo compartment etc..
,plus all the usual thermal vision ,lazer range finders ,stabilization ,lead assistance and warning
systems etc... And fanfare is being made about its "Hunter Killer mode"
Hunter killer as far as I can tell from an Israeli site appears to be the ability to actually
lock onto a target ,kind of like a Fighter jet ,and have the computer track it ,the Merkava 4
takes this further and tracks the target even if the computer looses sight of the target!.
I think it compares the landscape in its navigational map and works out where the target should be
given its last known speed and direction! Wow!.
The Oliphant Mk3 is the version PREVIOUS to the Oliphant 2 and in any modern battlefield should
rather be used as a LGB/ATGM magnet than a tank containing people but aside from that I'm under
the impression it would stack up favorably against a T-72 since it has much better armour and
the 105mm served the israelis well in Tank on Tank battles ,I know our tanks squashed any tanks
the ran into ,I dont know if that included T-72's but they were used in angola since we did
capture at least one T-72 I know of.
The Rooivalk looks like its sung its swan song ,but in the contracts it was vying for I heard
the testers commented that several of its systems were more advanced that its competitors in those
contracts ,the competing copters were the Tiger ,the Apache and Russias alligator if I remember
right.
I clearly remember they said they would take the rooivalk over the others if we could
supply it with Hellfires ,which naturally the USA said stuff you to! but I heard the guy say
that on the news myself.
One system they noted as the best out of them all ,and to me would seem to be the most critical was
the target locating and tracking system which apparently outranged even the Apaches!
IE :could locate further or harder to see targets
So am I wrong in saying this is...er...was the better helicopter?
In addition to the better target system the Mokopa missile that would be used with it out preformed
the Hellfire in Range and I think even carried a larger warhead so would have made full use of the
advantage ,what do you think ?
The Mamba on paper doesn't sound too good ,its said to be too bouncy ,underpowered and slow ,but
The thing is considered by the mercanaries in Iraq to be THE vehicle to be in when you are being
attacked by the rebels/insurgents/whatever ,and around May I heard the US Military as bought
a whopping +100 of them for use in Iraq ,whats you opinion of them ?
The ZT3 missile was used in Angola here and there and the one instance saw a ZT3 ratel take on
2 T-55's and knocked them out with the usual effect of blowing the turret far into the air as
most Nato ATGM's do ,there's photos of this incident I'll need to dig them up again.
The Rooikat has never been tested in combat ,but apparently its considered the best in its
class world wide ,any opinions on it ?
