The Next Infantry Assault rifle for the United States

[Spetsznaz]

The thing is, is that the M16a1,a2,a3,a4 and the M4 Carbine will soon be very outdated, with Russia developing more complex Kalashnikov variants and the rest of NATO moving on to new weapons being produced in Europe.

There was while testing for the XM8 assault riffle, however was canceled.

I believe that the next candidate for a new Infantry riffle of the United States is the SCAR-L which is already in a lot of use in the US army rangers.

Not only that the SCAR 'variants' can be deployed as Assault and Heavy Battle riffles as well as CQB and CQBR forms

I want to know if there are any other better options?

What do you think:ar15

 

[Bonza]

The thing is, is that the M16a1,a2,a3,a4 and the M4 Carbine will soon be very outdated, with Russia developing more complex Kalashnikov variants and the rest of NATO moving on to new weapons being produced in Europe.

There was while testing for the XM8 assault riffle, however was canceled.

I believe that the next candidate for a new Infantry riffle of the United States is the SCAR-L which is already in a lot of use in the US army rangers.

Not only that the SCAR 'variants' can be deployed as Assault and Heavy Battle riffles as well as CQB and CQBR forms

I want to know if there are any other better options?

What do you think:ar15

The Heckler & Koch HK416 (5.56mm) and HK417 (7.62mm) rifles are in use with Delta Force I believe, and in addition the company was recently selected for the USMC Infantry Automatic Rifle (or IAR) competition, using a variant of the HK416. So this weapon's got pretty good inroads into the US military and we may see more of them as time goes on (some believe the IAR program is an attempt to sneak a new Marine Corps standard-issue service rifle in the back door, for example).

Looking further toward the future though (caseless ammunition etc), it would probably be worth your while checking out any info you can on the Lightweight Small Arms Technologies program. Here's a quick link I googled up if you feel like reading further:

http://www.defensereview.com/stories/aailmga/Army Science Conf _3A_.pdf

Also here's a presentation on the same:

http://www.dtic.mil/ndia/2008Intl/Spiegel.pdf

Other than that I'm not really sure, it's probably worth researching some of the technologies relevant to the LSAT program though, seems like interesting stuff

 

[Spetsznaz]

Thanks, that really helped

How long till these things are put into effect?

 

[Gremlin29]

I believe the SCAR has a better chance of becoming the standard battle rifle for the Army since it is being used and hopefully proven by the Rangers. FN also has a good history with the US, more so than H&K. Lastly I've handled both and my non-expert opinion is that given the choice, I'd take the SCAR. In a perfect world we would see a rifle that could shoot as well as the M16A1 with the simplicity and realiability of the legendary AK/AKM (my favorite battle rifle platform). I think the SCAR comes closer to this than the 416.

 

[Spetsznaz]

The HK 416 like the SCAR is also already in limited service. I also wonder who long before the complete M16 platform is retired.

When will the Military let us know, what they plan to advance to.

I also think that H&K may offer up a new weapons platform, and lets not forget H&K (At face value) tends to have a much better offer of weapons.

But then again, FN has a REALLY good history with the US

 

[Gremlin29]

I think the problem facing the 416 is that it looks pretty much like what it is, a super duper improved version of the same old platform. I reallize this is an over simplfication of the weapon however it is, what it is. If I were a betting man my money would still be on the SCAR, primarily because of it's current use in the Army community and more specifically with the Rangers. They are a step closer to being light infantry than SF who have a more peculiar mission and need and hence the SCAR is likely to get more exposure/attention as a potential battle rifle. I guess someday the antique M4 will get replaced (XM8 almost did that a few years back) but it still has many fans.

 

[Spetsznaz]

I think the problem facing the 416 is that it looks pretty much like what it is, a super duper improved version of the same old platform. I reallize this is an over simplfication of the weapon however it is, what it is. If I were a betting man my money would still be on the SCAR, primarily because of it's current use in the Army community and more specifically with the Rangers. They are a step closer to being light infantry than SF who have a more peculiar mission and need and hence the SCAR is likely to get more exposure/attention as a potential battle rifle. I guess someday the antique M4 will get replaced (XM8 almost did that a few years back) but it still has many fans.

Is there at all any possibility that perhaps H&K will offer up a weapon perhaps even more better than the SCAR in financial and performance terms:ar15

 

[Pathfinder-X]

The Bushmaster Adaptive Combat Rifle(ACR), formerly known as Magpul Masada, is also in the game as far as I know. So far, SCAR has only been issued to a few select units under USSOCM. I wouldn't say it's got the army contrac in the bag just yet.

On a side note, I think I'll go purchase an ACR in March when it's available in Canada. From what I been hearing at the gun club, the price will only be around $1500CDN, which is a bargain considering AR-15 cost more than $1700 here.

Update: Ok Bushmaster and Remington decided to screw over the consumers. Originally Magpul said the gun will cost $1500CDN, but now Bushmaster is saying they up'ed the price tag to $2600. Looks like my next purchase will be a Stag Arms AR-15 with rails instead.

 

[F-15 Eagle]

The thing is, is that the M16a1,a2,a3,a4 and the M4 Carbine will soon be very outdated, with Russia developing more complex Kalashnikov variants and the rest of NATO moving on to new weapons being produced in Europe.

There was while testing for the XM8 assault riffle, however was canceled.

I believe that the next candidate for a new Infantry riffle of the United States is the SCAR-L which is already in a lot of use in the US army rangers.

Not only that the SCAR 'variants' can be deployed as Assault and Heavy Battle riffles as well as CQB and CQBR forms

I want to know if there are any other better options?

What do you think:ar15

Yep the Rangers do have 1800 SCAR's as of right now, no doubt they will buy more.

Also don't forget in addition to the SCAR-L they also have the SCAR-H too.

(some believe the IAR program is an attempt to sneak a new Marine Corps standard-issue service rifle in the back door, for example).

Thats because of current DoD politics, you can't just ask for a new rifle you have to get one through the back door because of all the lobbyist from Colt(who only care about their profits).

I believe the SCAR has a better chance of becoming the standard battle rifle for the Army since it is being used and hopefully proven by the Rangers. FN also has a good history with the US, more so than H&K. Lastly I've handled both and my non-expert opinion is that given the choice, I'd take the SCAR. In a perfect world we would see a rifle that could shoot as well as the M16A1 with the simplicity and realiability of the legendary AK/AKM (my favorite battle rifle platform). I think the SCAR comes closer to this than the 416.

I favor the SCAR-L/H over the 416 IMO.

But the AK/AKM is an assault rifle not a battle rifle.

The Bushmaster Adaptive Combat Rifle(ACR), formerly known as Magpul Masada, is also in the game as far as I know. So far, SCAR has only been issued to a few select units under USSOCM. I wouldn't say it's got the army contrac in the bag just yet.

On a side note, I think I'll go purchase an ACR in March when it's available in Canada. From what I been hearing at the gun club, the price will only be around $1500CDN, which is a bargain considering AR-15 cost more than $4000 here.

ACR looks like a proven design, wonder if the military will ever buy any of these.

 

[F-15 Eagle]

Thanks, that really helped

How long till these things are put into effect?

With all the politics and bureaucrats at the DoD and Colt....about 50 years before they get another rifle.nfloorl:

 

[winnyfield]

Here's what the US Army is proposing for the M4; an improved AR rifle like the HK416. Its a rifle, not a computer.

Corps has stake in Army’s M4 redesign - MarineCorpsTimes.com

The Army effort is aimed at making the 5.56mm weapon shoot cleaner and straighter, and with higher rates of fire. The service is awaiting Defense Department approval to launch a competition to find a new carbine, with weapons officials identifying six interim fixes intended to address shortcomings in the M4’s reliability, durability and handling.

The overhaul proposals include:

• Adding a heavier barrel for better performance during high rates of fire.

• Replacing the direct-impingement gas system with a piston gas system.

• Improving the trigger pull.

• Incorporating an improved rail system for increased strength.

• Adding ambidextrous controls.

• Adding a round counter to track the total number of bullets fired over the weapon’s lifetime.

 

[F-15 Eagle]

The upgrades to the M4 look nice an all but its still based of of the AR-15/416 platform. Almost 50 years later I think something new needs to come, like the SCAR-L/H or the Bushmaster ACR both of those are great assault rifles.

 

[Spetsznaz]

I think this new "Assault Riffle" will need to have not just the light and portable qualities of the M4 but also, and this is just a guess on my part, perhaps a larger round, or a system with the option to fire different calibers

 

[F-15 Eagle]

I think this new "Assault Riffle" will need to have not just the light and portable qualities of the M4 but also, and this is just a guess on my part, perhaps a larger round, or a system with the option to fire different calibers

I'm all for the 6.8 SPC or the 6.5 Grendel(preferable). Now if the military could get the OK from the DoD....

 

[Spetsznaz]

Lets face it since most soldiers are armed with the 5.56, they will all tell that the stopping power is not too good.
The 5.56 has been proven a better choice for killing people, over larger calibers because of its rotation after entering the human body. But many Soldiers still prefer to make clean holes and pierce thinker armor (Cover) with rounds like the 7.62*39 or 7.62*51

 

[riksavage]

The UK has just completed comparison trials of the SCAR H, HK417 and L129A1 (Lewis Machine & Tool Company, United States). They opted for the latter to provide additional firepower at the section level (photo attached). Personally I would have gone for the SCAR-H, however the L129A1 working parts are very similar to that of the M14/16 (common to SF, SFSG usage), which makes the armourers life easier. All infantry sections will now have one 'sharpshooter' assigned (sniper-lite asset).

Heavier rounds are coming back in fashion at section level (7.62mm & 8.59mm), so what ever the US go for next I suspect (based on IRAQ/A-STAN experience) it will be a bigger round than 5.56mm, possibly a minimum 6mm +

LargeImageTemplate new Sharpshooter rifle

 

[Spetsznaz]

I really hope the US will go back to the 7.62*51 that the M14 uses, but the 8.6 rounds are kind of overdoing it, or am I wrong?

 

[Bonza]

I really hope the US will go back to the 7.62*51 that the M14 uses, but the 8.6 rounds are kind of overdoing it, or am I wrong?

That's .338 Lapua Magnum, if I'm not mistaken (please correct if wrong). Long-range round for large sniper rifles, not an assault weapon round.

 

[Spetsznaz]

That's .338 Lapua Magnum, if I'm not mistaken (please correct if wrong). Long-range round for large sniper rifles, not an assault weapon round.

Noo dude, the 7.62*51 is not the .338 lupua magnum that that the AWSM (my baby) uses.

7.62*51 is the caliber that the m14 uses.:ar15

 

[Bonza]

Noo dude, the 7.62*51 is not the .338 lupua magnum that that the AWSM (my baby) uses.

7.62*51 is the caliber that the m14 uses.:ar15

I was referring to the 8.59mm round you mentioned in your post. I'm pretty certain that's a reference to .338 Lapua Magnum. I'm well aware of what 7.62mm NATO is.