New SPGs for the Pakistani Army??

Ethan

New Member
Much has been talked about Pakistan's acquisition of tanks and APCs. However, it does not seem like much attention has been paid to it's artillery. Has there been any mention of possibly acquiring any modern SPGs.
 

Ethan

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I would think that the most likely source of Self propelled guns for Pakistani army would be the Chinese PLZ-45. The PLZ-45 155 mm, is a 45 calibre self-propelled howitzer. I has been developed by NORINCO based on the Type 89 (PLL-01) towed 155 mm/45 calibre howitzer.

In an international competition in 1997 the PLZ-45 successfully beat US and European competitors to win the contract for 72 units for the Kuwaiti Army. A battalion of howitzers were delivered to the Kuwait along with a full package of support, command and control, forward observer, and radar vehicles. In 2001, the Kuwaitis ordered a second batch of 74 howitzers due to its excellent performance.

PLZ-45 won the competition on it's technical excellence as opposed to being an affordable item. Though one should keep in mind that it is certainly among the most affordable complete weapon systems in it's class.
 

tatra

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Mmm, if South Afrika is willing to sell, PAK should seriously consider the G6 as delivered to UAE
 

Ethan

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Hum, yeah G-6 is actually a very good system however it's pretty heavy. I believe the total weight of G-6 is 47 tonnes. Above all India and South Africa are cooperating on the Bhim project, so I think there is a good possibility that the T-6 turret will find it's way on top of the Arjun chasis.

South Africa and India have very close ties also and I think given the recent trends in South African politics, I'd say South Africa would probably bow to Indian pressure and in time of war it could spell trouble for Pakistan if South Africa refuses to supply the spare parts.
 

aaaditya

New Member
the g6 can also be mounted on the tatra truck (this will be one of the platforms of indian army)it will weigh around 46tons and have a range of 1000kms and a road speed of 80kms/hr.it can fire shells to a range of 56.5kms with v-lap mod4 charges a ramjet shell is in development havin arange of 65+kms.pakistan should take india's capability into consideration before selecting a gun for its armed forces.it is better to have a 52 calibre gun than a 46 calibre gun.also pakistan should look into(czech dana gun,french caesar and germanpzh2000,or the As90 braveheart,pakistan should ensure maximum commonality between spg and fh)i would propose as90braveheart and xm777.also a simpler way out would be to upgrade the existing m109 guns to the latest standard the are pretty good,low cost of the upgrade,and available in the pakistan army.check out the paladins(m109) specifications in www.army-technology.com and www.globalsecurity.com
 

gf0012-aust

Grumpy Old Man
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aaaditya said:
the g6 can also be mounted on the tatra truck (this will be one of the platforms of indian army)it will weigh around 46tons and have a range of 1000kms and a road speed of 80kms/hr.it can fire shells to a range of 56.5kms with v-lap mod4 charges a ramjet shell is in development havin arange of 65+kms.pakistan should take india's capability into consideration before selecting a gun for its armed forces.it is better to have a 52 calibre gun than a 46 calibre gun.also pakistan should look into(czech dana gun,french caesar and germanpzh2000,or the As90 braveheart,pakistan should ensure maximum commonality between spg and fh)i would propose as90braveheart and xm777.also a simpler way out would be to upgrade the existing m109 guns to the latest standard the are pretty good,low cost of the upgrade,and available in the pakistan army.check out the paladins(m109) specifications in www.army-technology.com and www.globalsecurity.com
The XM777 died long ago, it has been the M777 for about 3 years. You need to check your reference material as it's old.

Also, a 46tonne armoured 6 wheeled truck is bordering on the ridiculous. 46 tonnes is heavier than some Russian MBT's.

Where are your sources so that we can validate some of the info re the above?
 

Pathfinder-X

Tribal Warlord
Verified Defense Pro
Ethan said:
I would think that the most likely source of Self propelled guns for Pakistani army would be the Chinese PLZ-45. The PLZ-45 155 mm, is a 45 calibre self-propelled howitzer. I has been developed by NORINCO based on the Type 89 (PLL-01) towed 155 mm/45 calibre howitzer.

In an international competition in 1997 the PLZ-45 successfully beat US and European competitors to win the contract for 72 units for the Kuwaiti Army. A battalion of howitzers were delivered to the Kuwait along with a full package of support, command and control, forward observer, and radar vehicles. In 2001, the Kuwaitis ordered a second batch of 74 howitzers due to its excellent performance.

PLZ-45 won the competition on it's technical excellence as opposed to being an affordable item. Though one should keep in mind that it is certainly among the most affordable complete weapon systems in it's class.
One thing to keep in mind is that PLZ-45's barrel life is considerably shorter compare to american M109A2-A5. But nevertheless it is the best SP howitzer ever cranked out by China and seems fairly capable for its price.
 

tatra

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Verified Defense Pro
Also, a 46tonne armoured 6 wheeled truck is bordering on the ridiculous. 46 tonnes is heavier than some Russian MBT's.

Where are your sources so that we can validate some of the info re the above?
Uhm, isn't the G6 6 wheeled and weighing 47 tons?
 

gf0012-aust

Grumpy Old Man
Staff member
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tatra said:
Also, a 46tonne armoured 6 wheeled truck is bordering on the ridiculous. 46 tonnes is heavier than some Russian MBT's.

Where are your sources so that we can validate some of the info re the above?
Uhm, isn't the G6 6 wheeled and weighing 47 tons?
If it is then I'll look an idiot. ;) I was under the impression that G6 was circa 37 tonnes...

46 Tonnes on a truck is equivalent to a Double B freighter with two 20ft shipping containers - it's damn big.
 

Ethan

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Actually I am pretty sure about this that G-6 weighs 47 tons. Yeah!! I know sounds unbelievable for a wheeled weapon system. However it is true. It's main advantage is not that it is lighter than any tracked SPG system but that it is more mobile.
 

aaaditya

New Member
g-6 biggest advantage is its long range(60+kms)hitting power.it also has a high rate of power (8 rounds /per minute)
 

Ethan

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8 rounds and hour is not a major accomplishment. This is the standard rate of fire with all the major SPG systems
 

mysterious

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So has there been any news about Pakistan going for any SPGs in the near future? Why dont they just opt for the Chinese ones for the moment cuz Pakistan Army is really short of the number of SPGs that is needed to create the effective punch in their firepower I'd say. And they also definitely need newer more advanced MBRLs in greater numbers which is another area of concern from my perspective.
 

aaaditya

New Member
ethan i meant 8 rounds per minute,the chinese system 5-6 rounds per minute the gerrman pzh2000 i thinki has the highest(12 rounds perminute,20 rounds in 1 hour 47 minutes) firing rate.the accuracy of g6 at 75% of max range is0.048% of the range value and 1 mil in deflection,the barral life is around 6000charges.
 

aaaditya

New Member
hey guys would you be having any information/pics of a 155mm howitzer that pakistan is developing?
saw an article on ideas which stated that pof was developing a 155mm artillery gun and that it was displayed during the ideas show.i would like to know wether it is a field howitzer or a self propeeled howitzer and wether it is indigenous/based on us m109 or the chinese design:confused:
thank you.
 

P.A.F

New Member
aaaditya said:
hey guys would you be having any information/pics of a 155mm howitzer that pakistan is developing?
saw an article on ideas which stated that pof was developing a 155mm artillery gun and that it was displayed during the ideas show.i would like to know wether it is a field howitzer or a self propeeled howitzer and wether it is indigenous/based on us m109 or the chinese design:confused:
thank you.
here is a pic of it.
http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/systems/ground/images/m114.jpg
 

P.A.F

New Member
more info.

http://www.army-technology.com/projects/caesar/
CAESAR 155MM SELF PROPELLED ARTILLERY SYSTEM, FRANCE

The Caesar truck mounted artillery system is a 155mm 52 calibre self-propelled gun developed by Giat Industries, based in Versailles, in co-operation with Lohr Industrie of Hangenbieten, France. An initial five systems were ordered by the French Army and were delivered in June 2003 for technical and operational evaluation. In December 2004, Giat was awarded a contract for 72 Caesar systems to equip eight land artillery batteries of the French Army, to replace towed TRF1 systems. Deliveries are planned from 2007-11. The system has also been demonstrated in Malaysia and in the USA.

The Caesar artillery system evolved from the earlier 155 AM F3 automotive gun, which used the chassis of the AMX-13 light tank. Caesar is equipped with all the systems needed for independent operation, a cabin to protect the six man gun crew against shell fragments and small arms fire, an initial ammunition supply of 16 complete rounds and instrumentation for navigation, aiming, ballistic calculations and command aids. The system was specifically designed to meet the fire support requirements of rapid deployment forces.

In March 2004, Giat entered an agreement with United Defense for that company to market Caesar in the USA.

In September 2004, Giat signed a teaming agreement with ADI Ltd of Australia to offer Caesar to the Australian Army for its Land 17 Artillery Replacement programme.

ARMAMENT

Caesar is equipped with a 155mm, 52 calibre barrel and can maintain a firing rate of 6 to 8 rounds per minute in sustained fire, or three rounds in 15 seconds in rapid fire.

The FAST-Hit computerised fire management system, developed jointly by Giat and EADS Defense Electronics, an Intertechnique ROB4 muzzle velocity radar system and a SAGEM Sigma 30 navigation system and global positioning system (GPS) are fitted so there is no requirement for topographical teams and goniometers. The weapon has an automatic hydraulic laying system and the loading system is semi-automatic.

Caesar will be fitted with the Thales Communications Atlas Canon artillery fire control system. The system provides onboard terminals for communications and real-time firing sequence management including fowarding of fire-support requests and transmission of firing orders according to target type, ammunition type and gun availability.

The gun can be set into and out of action in less than 1 minute. The weapon system configuration and the provision of hydraulic drives give a time of approximately 30 seconds, to take the Caesar out of battery. A unit of eight Caesar self-propelled artillery vehicles can dispense, in less than one minute, more than one tonne of projectiles, 1,500 bomblets or 48 smart anti-tank munitions on targets at ranges up to 40km.

MUNITIONS

Caesar is capable of using a wide range of ammunition for deployment against protected and unprotected targets, to create counter-mobility obstacles to block the manoeuvres of enemy armoured forces and to obscure or illuminate an area.

Caesar can fire conventional high explosive (HE) or new generation cargo rounds, which provide increased accuracy and terminal effectiveness. The Ogre shell, which is in series production for the French Army, is an anti-tank and fragmentation bomblet dispensing round for use against relatively unprotected area targets such as command posts, artillery batteries, light armoured vehicles or logistic sites. Ogre dispenses 63 bomblets, each fitted with a self-destruct mechanism. The bomblets are capable of penetrating more than 90 mm of armour. A salvo of six Ogre shells releases 378 bomblets to saturate an area of 3 hectares at a range of 35km.

Bonus rounds with smart submunitions can be launched against tanks and other types of medium and heavy armoured vehicles. Bonus rounds have been developed by Giat Industries and Intertechnique of France, and Bofors of Sweden. The Bonus round carries two smart anti-tank submunitions to a range of 34km. A top-attack flight profile delivers the Explosively Formed Penetrator (EFP) warhead to the roof of the tank which is generally more vulnerable than the heavily armour-protected sides and front.

Base bleed shells provide a considerably increased range by filling the vacuum and reducing the turbulence behind the projectile without any loss of accuracy. The maximum ranges are up to 42km for Extended Range Full Bore - Base Bleed (ERFB-BB) rounds.

PROPULSION

The all-terrain vehicle is a Daimler Benz Unimog 6 x 6 series chassis. Caesar has an unrefuelled travel range of 600km and maximum speed of 100km/h. A centralised ground pressure distribution system gives speeds of 50km/hour on hardened tracks. It has a six-cylinder diesel engine, developing 240hp and a power-to-weight ratio of 13.6hp/t.

Excluding its crew and ready ammunition supply, Caesar can be carried in a single load of a C-130 Hercules transporter.
 
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