This is a discussion on Malaysian Army/Land forces discussions within the Army & Security Forces forum, part of the Global Defense & Military category; I just have one question for everybody:
Are you stating that the PT-91 has no hunter/killer capabilities and that the ...
That is no rating of the actual FCS capabilities when it comes to precision and fire on the move capabilities.
One can live without hunter/killer capabilities. The US did it for a long time (Shame on them... ) but TC override is essential IMHO.
That is no rating of the actual FCS capabilities when it comes to precision and fire on the move capabilities.
One can live without hunter/killer capabilities. The US did it for a long time (Shame on them... ) but TC override is essential IMHO.
But isn`t Malaysian Pt-91M set up with a VIGY-15 sight which in fact is a Panoramic sight giving the TC the ability to lay the gun and fire in emergency situations.
Yes, the PT-91M has the Vigy-15, this is stated by the manufacturer (Bumar) herself in on of their PDF-files.
Sagem write about their Vigy-15:
Quote:
VIGY 15: gyro-stabilized day/night panoramic sight for tank commanders. This offers "hunter-killer" functionality: the tank commander signals the detected target to the gunner but, in emergencies, can fire at the target himself.
So in my eyes this sounds as if the PT-91M indeed offers Hunter-Killer capability as well as override. It even sounds as if he has his own TI.
A link to the PDF from Bumar (it's in Polish, I don't speak Polish but an Online-Translator more or less made the job...): http://www.bumar.gliwice.pl/pdf/pt91m.pdf
The PTs seem to have a hunter/killer capability but there seems to be no real TC override being implemented.
I read this at Tank Net where it was written by Simon Tan.
I found the sentence again (Before that I also thought that the Vigy-15 offered everything) but now I am even more confused.
Here is what he wrote:
Quote:
There's no full FCS override with VIGY 15. The commander has to use a small screen displaying the feed from the GPS. Very 80s.
So maybe it does mean that there is a independent sight but the TC cannot make the gun rotate onto the target he found with it but has to lay the gun manually onto the new target either by just telling the gunner were to search or by directing the gun personally using the gunners primary sight.
If you think that this post is maybe not very helpfull for you, than you are right...
The PTs seem to have a hunter/killer capability but there seems to be no real TC override being implemented.
I read this at Tank Net where it was written by Simon Tan.
I found the sentence again (Before that I also thought that the Vigy-15 offered everything) but now I am even more confused.
Here is what he wrote:
So maybe it does mean that there is a independent sight but the TC cannot make the gun rotate onto the target he found with it but has to lay the gun manually onto the new target either by just telling the gunner were to search or by directing the gun personally using the gunners primary sight.
If you think that this post is maybe not very helpfull for you, than you are right...
With this sighting system the TC can lay the gun, range to the target and engage targets, but yes it is a rather old French system with the possibility of Malaysia being able to upgrade to the Sagem 15.
Yes, the PT-91M has the Vigy-15, this is stated by the manufacturer (Bumar) herself in on of their PDF-files.
Sagem write about their Vigy-15:
So in my eyes this sounds as if the PT-91M indeed offers Hunter-Killer capability as well as override. It even sounds as if he has his own TI.
A link to the PDF from Bumar (it's in Polish, I don't speak Polish but an Online-Translator more or less made the job...): http://www.bumar.gliwice.pl/pdf/pt91m.pdf
With this sighting system the TC can lay the gun, range to the target and engage targets, but yes it is a rather old French system with the possibility of Malaysia being able to upgrade to the Sagem 15.
Ah, thanks for makingt this clear.
Makes a possible upgrade of the FCS by the russians even less possible.
can anyone elaborate why Vigy-15 is considered a not up to date equipment, and how did Simon Tan came up with the idea that tank commander on the TC sight cannot move the turret since it is a pair system with the SAVAN-15?
can anyone elaborate why Vigy-15 is considered a not up to date equipment, and how did Simon Tan came up with the idea that tank commander on the TC sight cannot move the turret since it is a pair system with the SAVAN-15?
btw, eckherl, what is the SAGEM 15?
Sorry - this is the sight I was referring to (Savan 15). This is a upgraded sight and They have not gone to it as of yet, also why would they degrade the capabilities of a new sighting system. This sight offers the same capabilities but with a better field of view and picture.
Just for clarification:
The Savan-15 is a gunners sight (fixed-forward view).
The Vigy-15 is a commanders sight (panoramic view)
The PT-91M has both of them.
That's what we all agree upon, right?
Yes - Savan 15 is a fixed gunners sight. Sorry - my fault I should of explained in additional detail to qwerty223 before shooting from the hip. Does the Malaysian tanks actually have them installed, I was told that they did not as of yet.
I went onto the Sagem site and they do state that it is on the PT-91M tanks. So for me personally, this should make this tank even more capable then what I expected, but it is still not up to par with a LEO2A4.
Last edited by eckherl; December 6th, 2007 at 11:28 AM.
Reason: Additional information added from Sagem
) but TC override is essential IMHO.
