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Info on the SA-80

This is a discussion on Info on the SA-80 within the Army & Security Forces forum, part of the Global Defense & Military category; hey, I'm wondering if anyone has some info on the british SA-80 rifle. I'm doing a project on it in ...


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Old February 22nd, 2007   #1
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Info on the SA-80

hey,
I'm wondering if anyone has some info on the british SA-80 rifle.
I'm doing a project on it in my systems technology class, & need info, i have some decent stuff already, but some stuff i cant find.

The question i'm having trouble with is this section:

"In your investigation you must take the following into consideration:
*Industrial
*Community
*Technological
*Environmental factors which may impinge upon the system"

i'm ok with the industrial & technological side of it but the other two, i can find anything for...so if anyone can help, please do, it will be greatly appriciated
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Old February 22nd, 2007   #2
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Originally Posted by dweezil.comm.op View Post
hey,
I'm wondering if anyone has some info on the british SA-80 rifle.
I'm doing a project on it in my systems technology class, & need info, i have some decent stuff already, but some stuff i cant find.

The question i'm having trouble with is this section:

"In your investigation you must take the following into consideration:
*Industrial
*Community
*Technological
*Environmental factors which may impinge upon the system"

i'm ok with the industrial & technological side of it but the other two, i can find anything for...so if anyone can help, please do, it will be greatly appriciated
The following link has an article called SA80: MISTAKE OR MALIGNED?

http://www.quarry.nildram.co.uk/SA80.htm

It includes a study of environmental factors.

How you work 'Community' into a project of this type stumps me and I've been involved in education almost all my working life! I guess some creative imagination is called for. Perhaps the army protecting the community with the SA80 or providing work for a local community with the manufacturing of SA80s would be two fairly dubious possibilities.


Cheers
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Old February 24th, 2007   #3
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Yes, Community is the tough one. You could also I guess consider the community of users of the weapon, eg what they think of it, and maybe the those groups whom are pros and then the anti SA80 brigade as this rifle that has attracted more than a little controversy over the years. There is plenty in all sorts of archives about that.
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Old February 24th, 2007   #4
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Don't forget to mention H&K.

They were the ones who debugged the SA80.
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Old February 24th, 2007   #5
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thanks for the info, really added alot to my project, I get the results back tomorrow. Yeh, i just put how it helps the community of people who use it. so thanks again for the help.
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Old February 27th, 2007   #6
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I guess I fall into the Anti-brigade on this one.......... Not sure the the improvements on the A2 model are any good (but can let you know in 3 weeks!)
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Old March 1st, 2007   #7
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Sorry I'm too late on this one, but if you ever use your project again or update it, yiou might consider this, if you haven't already.

In terms of industry, make sure you add in that this was another design contracted to the lowest bidder, and as such the manufacturer tried to save $$$ wherever they could, like making magazines with springs that were manufactured from metal that was too brittle for this purpose, machining all moving parts to a perfect fit, allowing no give for grime and dirt build up, of even greasing for that matter, a big nono that the makers of the M16 found out in Vietnam, oh yah, and the fact that the weapon itself was made out of really heavy metals making it heavier than a lot of other weapons its size, but the weapon was still fragile as an egg and reactive to everything, including the British Army's own mosquito repellent.

On top of all this, the different pieces of the weapon were machined and refined by different sub contractors to Enfield, and as such the metals have different properties, including some in which some pieces almost fuse together because one piece is hotter or colder than another and has expanded at a different rate. It is actually possible to create a weld this way, by freezing one piece of steel, and superheating another, then inserting the cold one into a hole in the hot one, when the pieces cool again, the bond is nearly inseparable. This process can be imitated by the weapon in cold climates, I can personally attest that the barrel itself gets very very hot when firing, hotter a lot of weapons I have fired, and I can only imagine how hot the internal parts are getting. Now picture this, You're serving in a frigid climate or the middle of winter, it's 0300 and you need your weapon suddenly, it's ice cold. You start firing, the outsideof the weapon isn't warming up but everything insode is, get the picture?

In fact, just last year I was reenacting a War of 1812 battle in February in Ogdensburg, New York, and I saw the wooden stock of a musket (vastly different technology, I know) split long ways, and it was a nice stock too, very nicely made, not one of those Indian opieces of junk for anyone who knows what I mean. The prognosis: The barrel had superheated and expanded but the wood was frigid and condensed, something had to give.

On top of all this many British soldiers complain that the stock is uncomfortable and you have to hold the weapon higher or else you could get struck in the eye by one of the gun's ejected casings, which were notorious for flying every which direction, if they ejected at all.

And of course, as stated already, a big thank you goes out to HK, who fixed this major F**K up, which, ironically enough, won out its bidding contract against a competing HK model, can't remeber which one off hand, but oh well, HK got paid either way. Interestingly enough, Enfield weapons have a history of problems such as these, like the original versions of the Lee-Enfield bolt action repeater, some of which's problems were not fixed until after the first world war.

Back to the point, I must say that you should add under your technology section that it is well suited to many tasks and roles, it is apparently a good support weapon, it has even been compared to the BREN support weapon of World War 2, as the BREN had a couple of the same issues, but was also very accurate.

ENVIRONMENTAL FACTORS: As I mentioned before, this weapon is highly sensitive to grime and dirt build up, especially in moist climates. In the desert it requires a lot of cleaning, as do most weapons that serve in a thater like that, but due to the small amount of grease and lubricant that can be put into the weapon, it is not as difficult as cleaning say an M16, which uses a lot of grease and when that mixes with sand it gets the consistency of undried epoxy. However it is also prudent to add that continuous firing without cleaning the weapon, like say if there were a need for a unit to engage in a prolonged firefight lasting more than 24 hours, this is a bad weapon to have, because as mentioned, it is sensitive to dirt, which includes residue from it's own cartridges, even though the british have pretty much mastered the art of the clean propellant, or as clean as it will probably ever get before we all have Star Trek weapons, after about 1000 rounds there begins to be a notable difference in the rate of fire and accuracy of the weapon.

Sorry for yet another long post, lol, I'm bad for that
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Old March 2nd, 2007   #8
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hey,
I'm wondering if anyone has some info on the british SA-80 rifle.
I'm doing a project on it in my systems technology class, & need info, i have some decent stuff already, but some stuff i cant find.

The question i'm having trouble with is this section:

"In your investigation you must take the following into consideration:
*Industrial
*Community
*Technological
*Environmental factors which may impinge upon the system"

i'm ok with the industrial & technological side of it but the other two, i can find anything for...so if anyone can help, please do, it will be greatly appriciated
I don't see why the M.O.D had to replace the FN FAL as a standard infantry rifle. Its more effective than the SA-80.
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Old March 2nd, 2007   #9
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I don't see why the M.O.D had to replace the FN FAL as a standard infantry rifle. Its more effective than the SA-80.
Is there any NATO army which did not move from 7.62mm to 5.56mm? Please correct me if I'm wrong but my understanding is that once NATO set the new standard calibre for main battle rifles, all members followed. Other western countries like Australia and New Zealand have also adopted NATO standards for their rifles.

I guess the main reason for the change in calibre was the perceived need for infantry soldiers to be able to fire accurate full auto bursts and to carry more ammunition. It is also a much easier calibre to learn to shoot and has been able to replace weapons like the sub machine gun as well as the main battle rifle.

Having said all that I personally liked the firepower of the FN FAL which is the rifle I carried as an army reservist a long, long time ago!

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Old March 5th, 2007   #10
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Is there any NATO army which did not move from 7.62mm to 5.56mm? Please correct me if I'm wrong but my understanding is that once NATO set the new standard calibre for main battle rifles, all members followed. Other western countries like Australia and New Zealand have also adopted NATO standards for their rifles.

I guess the main reason for the change in calibre was the perceived need for infantry soldiers to be able to fire accurate full auto bursts and to carry more ammunition. It is also a much easier calibre to learn to shoot and has been able to replace weapons like the sub machine gun as well as the main battle rifle.

Having said all that I personally liked the firepower of the FN FAL which is the rifle I carried as an army reservist a long, long time ago!

Cheers
Now its mostly in the hands of rouge regimes or questionable organizations. Though it may still be in service with some special forces units or in the private sector.
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Old March 5th, 2007   #11
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We still use the G3 in reserve forces and I am not sure if every third line army unit or naval ship is equipped with G36 by now.

And we use the G3 with a telescopic sight on it as a DMR in some units.
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Old March 5th, 2007   #12
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We still use the G3 in reserve forces and I am not sure if every third line army unit or naval ship is equipped with G36 by now.

And we use the G3 with a telescopic sight on it as a DMR in some units.
Which model of G3?
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Old March 5th, 2007   #13
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G3a3 Zf.
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Old March 5th, 2007   #14
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G3a3 Zf.
Nice model, do you know of the civilian variants of the A3 model?
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Old March 5th, 2007   #15
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There are some civilan semi-automatic versions available.

But I'm sorry I do not have further informations because I am not really into shooting civil AR versions here in germany.
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