This is a discussion on The Indonesian Army within the Army & Security Forces forum, part of the Global Defense & Military category; Personally, I was more interested in the AMAP-ADS module package. You hardly ever see active duty tanks that are protected ...
Personally, I was more interested in the AMAP-ADS module package. You hardly ever see active duty tanks that are protected by an APS (aside from the Israeli's) and it would be nice knowing that our army is, at a considerable level, technologically advanced..
On a side note, I heard on some forums that the TNI is evaluating the Swedish CV90 (possibly for pindad's IFV/Medium tank project), anyone heard that before?
Personally, I was more interested in the AMAP-ADS module package. You hardly ever see active duty tanks that are protected by an APS (aside from the Israeli's) and it would be nice knowing that our army is, at a considerable level, technologically advanced..
On a side note, I heard on some forums that the TNI is evaluating the Swedish CV90 (possibly for pindad's IFV/Medium tank project), anyone heard that before?
As far as I know,the Singaporean Leopard 2SG are already equipped with AMAP-ADS package + other integration which include the possible upgrade to L55 gun system if the defence related articles I have read is accurate.
On a side note, I heard on some forums that the TNI is evaluating the Swedish CV90 (possibly for pindad's IFV/Medium tank project), anyone heard that before?
Mindef already talking with Russia, Ukraine, Turkey, Korea, Spain, Sweden and Italy (some info talk about that to) on possible platform being used as based for the plan Medium Tank. Based on the info in media and local forum, Germany, Korea and Turkey got some serious follow up from Mindef and Pindad.
However Germany (Rheinmetall) seems going to get the contract. I've post this previously, and the procurement of Marder is the definite clue on that. Just like in the case of Anoa, the process begin with procurement of VAB, then discussion with Renault on possible manufacturing with Pindad, then Anoa is the result.
This pattern also being follow on with Sherpa (also with Renault) for Armored Scout vehicle. I do believe this is the pattern that going to be follow by Pindad and other local defense Industry for developing their product.
Basically it's said that ToT agreement has been signed by Mindef and local defense Industry with Brazilian Avibras for MLRS and German Rheinmettal for (I believe) support on Leo 2 MBT and development of 30 ton Medium Tank.
It's more clear now, that Marder will be based for this Medium Tank. It will not be Marder (just like Anoa is not VAB), but it will be based on that.
From local forum mention that from interview with the user (a cav. army major) in IDAM 2012, there are 12 available upgrade packages/item for Leopard 2 Revolution. But Indonesian Leopard 2 will only include 7 upgrade packages from those packages. the item that are not included in indonesia Leopard upgrade packages are :
1. RCWS,
2. ROSYS (soft kill system);
3. SAS (Camera for 360 degree view);
4. Commander's brake
5. BMS
The reason for only taking 7 from a possible 12 is because budget constraint, and because some of those system are considered not essentials (apart from BMS). There are also talk's about upgrading it later on with locally produce items, such as a plan for locally produced BMS which involves local company like PT. Pindad. As for the cannon, it will retain the L44.
Ananda: Do you know whether the Marders be eventually upgraded to the A5/A5A1 version? Also, whatever happened with the K21 procurement plan, are the Marders chosen over them?
Kensama: I heard that too, whats more plausible currently in a local upgrade package would be an RCWS and a 360 degree camera. Later on with the right budget I assume Pindad and several of the local companies would develop an indegenous BMS, like what Chile did with their Leopard 2's, or maybe buy them from KMW.
Are the AMAP composite armor part of the ToT deal?
Ananda: Do you know whether the Marders be eventually upgraded to the A5/A5A1 version? Also, whatever happened with the K21 procurement plan, are the Marders chosen over them?
Are you talking the Marder that procured as part of Leo 2 packages, or Pindad Medium Tank Project. As Marder that part of Leo 2 Packages, I haven't heard Pindad will getting a contract to upgraded them. What I heard is Pindad hoping to get contract to upgrade 43 Leo 2A4 under the packages.
Today I've an opportunity coming to Indodefence, only staying for a while (coming as part of Business since the Bank I'm working has been financing few local defense project, and now being ask to further finance more projects. Just looking for projects with viable financial prospect).
However got an opportunity talking with Rheinmetall people, which saying that they are in process on working with Pindad for possible upgrade projects on Leo 2 done by Pindad. Still on early stages according to them. No talking about Marder upgrades.
For Pindad Medium Tank Project. Like I said, Just like Anoa which design based on VAB but Anoa is not VAB, the Medium Tank more likely will be have design based on Marder but will not be Marder.
Anoa, even design based on VAB, has some South Korean Technology (from I heard on lower automotive part), since Pindad even-though when building Anoa have cooperation with Renault, but also sourcing from other sources, so Anoa will not become just another VAB.
Looking on that, I can only presumed Pindad when building this Medium Tank Project will try to sources some of the parts/design from other sources. Doosan still lobbying Mindef to get some part of the deal. So does Turkey's Asselsan. In short, with ToT MoU already sign with Rheinmettal, it can be presumed Marder will contribute significant part of the design, but it will not turn out as just another Marder. Pindad I believe like the time when they designing Anoa, will try to get multiple sources of Tech, just to made the Medium Tank, as their Tank and not just another copy from some IFV in the market.
Btw, from Rheinmetall guys that I've talked, he indicated that most of Leo 2 RI Armor packages will be similar with Leo 2 Rev, however some of the electronics won't be. Seems support what TNI-AD sources already say in media.
this is my first post . i found this thread is quite interesting .i've been reading it for a past few days .
Sorry if im out of topic but i want to share some information related to Indonesian defence.
Jakarta is going to build another 3 war-ship in corporation with PT Dok Kodja Bahari .The opening ceremony is presented by the Indonesian defence minister with keel lying and first steel cutting .
If u understand bahasa indonesia, here is some choice of local blogs .
In September we got the news that TNI-AD will get one battery of Starstreaks, but one battery, how many launchers is that?
And will it be self-propelled launchers, three round light weight launchers or man portable launchers?
Let's not forget that the absolute lack of guided anti-tank weapons was one of the oddest deficits of the Indonesian army for many years. 25 systems is really a "drop in the ocean". Every unit except tank batallions had to rely on unguided shoulder weapons to fight enemy armour. This is an extreme disadvantage, obviously, as Southeast Asian neighbours have been ramping up on armoured vehicles for the last 15 or so years, the purchase of a modern ATGW is just a logical step.
Let's not forget that the absolute lack of guided anti-tank weapons was one of the oddest deficits of the Indonesian army for many years. 25 systems is really a "drop in the ocean". Every unit except tank batallions had to rely on unguided shoulder weapons to fight enemy armour. This is an extreme disadvantage, obviously, as Southeast Asian neighbours have been ramping up on armoured vehicles for the last 15 or so years, the purchase of a modern ATGW is just a logical step.
TNI and its predecessor, ABRI, was primarily focus on internal security operations for most part. Being island republic for most part (with the exception of Borneo) and the lack of any direct armour threat on its borders probably put the ATGM mission on the backburner. Yes, 25 seems somewhat small. Would they be deployed with Kostrad and the new formations that would be raised with the Leopards and Marders?
Let's not forget that the absolute lack of guided anti-tank weapons was one of the oddest deficits of the Indonesian army for many years. 25 systems is really a "drop in the ocean". Every unit except tank batallions had to rely on unguided shoulder weapons to fight enemy armour.
It goes back to threat perceptions and operational requirements - both of which dictated how armies were equipped and organised. With the exception of the SAF and to a much lesser extent the RTA [which was worried that the Vietnamese would venture westwards after taking Cambodia], most SEA armies were infantry centric armies tailored for low intensity internal threats posed by lightly armed opponents operating on foot. The first army [from the original ASEAN countries] to get ATGWs was the RTA [TOW 1s] followed by the Singapore army [Milan 1]. Malaysia - which was the first to get ship launched anti-ship missiles and ship launched anti-air missiles - only got the Eryx in 1994 and even then it was intended to protect the Malaysian Battalion in UNPROFOR against the possibility of attacks by the Bosnian Serbs.
Last edited by STURM; December 8th, 2012 at 12:57 PM.
Malaysia - which was the first to get ship launched anti-ship missiles and ship launched anti-air missiles - only got the Eryx in 1994 and even then it was intended to protect the Malaysian Battalion in UNPROFOR against the possibility of attacks by the Bosnian Serbs.
Small correction, Malaysian Navy did become the first navy in SEA that fielded 'western' made ship launch SSM in the form of Exocet MM-38. However Indonesian navy already fielded ship launched SSM since early 60's in the form of P-15/SS-N-2 on board Komar missile boats.
However with no potential big armoured invasions, anti armoured is just like you say not priority. Todays, at least for Indonesia, the procurement of Javelin is more to keep up with technology and modern anti armor environment. The procurement is not in big number relative to TNI size, but enough to catch up on enviromental practice.
