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India's MBT: Arjun and its standing among Tanks

This is a discussion on India's MBT: Arjun and its standing among Tanks within the Army & Security Forces forum, part of the Global Defense & Military category; hmmmmmmmm the point is that as compared to the new slots that India have accquired from russia of T90's are ...


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Old July 31st, 2004   #61
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Re: India's MBT: Arjun and its standing among Tanks

hmmmmmmmm

the point is that as compared to the new slots that India have accquired from russia of T90's are better, with greater radiations fightin limit, quick reload, better air pressure maintannece and coparitively less in wieght than Arjun. Army has stopped inducting MBT Arjun long time back and now they are lookin for its new and advanced feature versions. But india is still havin certain (not much) with Arjun's. Even the army personals regard T-72 and T-90's better tank. But as compared to pakistan even MBT Arjun is comparable to their Armoured Stock. So keepin them is not a problem just that they can operate in rajisthan not in Jammu.

in the coming days DRDO will come up with a addvanced structure
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Old July 31st, 2004   #62
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Originally Posted by Oqaab
srirangan,

Please post some info about Arjun II.

Thanx in advance.
Here are some information:

• DRDO fixed the problems with mobility & engine heating.

• DRDO teamed up with Israeli companies to develop a digital FCS. This FCS was extensively tested by Indian Army & duly accepted.

• Problems with the commander's periscope sight, laser warning sight and muzzle reference sight solved. Development of new & better optics by BEL.

• The MoD has allocated $3.9 million to build three transporter types to move Arjun.


In addition to this Arjun achieved many goals. Some of them are listed below.

• Chromium lined barrel increases the barrel life & also the muzzle velocity of the shell.

• Arjun’s armor was tested in combat like conditions and fared very well. It also withstood direct fire of Dual Discarding APFSDS, HEAT, HESH & various RPG roundsas per the latest trials on September 2003. According to to DRDO, the composite "KANCHAN" armour gives a level of protection far better then other contemporary tanks.

• LAHAT ATGM has been test fired from Arjun. This trials were successful. This was achieved by coating the round with rubber; the rubber coating burns off elemaniting contact between the barrel and the round. As soon as the round leaves the barrel, rubber coating has burnt off. Due to this technique rounds ca be launched at higher velocities. then possible with normal rifled barrels. LAHAT (Laser Homing Attack) with a range of 6 km exceeds the capacity of Refleks system on T-90S.

Never before seen crew protection levels in tanks used by Indian Army. Crew protection is paramount and slight changes have been made here. The ammo storage is in the turret bustle but is modulated and separated from the crew by armor, so that if hit by RPG or top-attack ATGM, crew remains safe.

• Integrated GPS & BMS (Battlefield Management System). These systems have touch screen for rapid access.

• State-of-the-art night vision gear (MRI-TI) allowing the commander to identify a terget at ranges more then 5 km and sighting a target at 6+ Km.

• A new Active Area Defense System (AADS) from Elbit.

• Estimated cost of $ 4 million per piece.

Future Future of Arjun looks very bright. DRDO is more confident now. Spin-offs from Arjun project have been many. Army has extensively tested a howitzer mounted on Arjun chasis named ‘Bhim’. Another is Arjun turret mounted atop T-72 chasis. It is named Tank-Ex by DRDO (some people also call it Karna).



http://orbat.com/site/jawan/april2004/Arjun.pdf
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Old July 31st, 2004   #63
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The Tank-ex was publicly displayed sometime back right?
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Old July 31st, 2004   #64
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The Tank-ex was publicly displayed sometime back right?
Yes. In Defexpo-04.
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Old July 31st, 2004   #65
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Thanx "RealIndian".

Quote:
DRDO fixed the problems with mobility & engine heating.
Arjun uses a German engine right ? Is India getting German assistance in solving engine problems ??
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Old July 31st, 2004   #66
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Thanx "RealIndian".

Quote:
DRDO fixed the problems with mobility & engine heating.
Arjun uses a German engine right ?
German engine replaced by Indian one (1500hp).


Quote:
Is India getting German assistance in solving engine problems ??
I am doubtful about foreign help to solve the engine problem. BTW India also manufacturing T-90S. They got expertise from it.
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Old August 3rd, 2004   #67
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Defence Minister to hand over Arjun to Army on Aug 7
Monday, August 2 2004 20:25 Hrs (IST)


Bangalore: Defence Minister Pranab Mukherjee will hand over the first batch of five Arjun, the Main Battle Tank (MBT), produced at the Heavy Vehicles Factory, Avadi on August 7 to the Indian Army.

Chief of Army Staff General N C Vij will receive the indigenously designed and developed MBTs from the Defence Minister, a Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO) statement said in Bangalore today (Aug 2, 2004).

The armoured fighting vehicle MBT Arjun was designed and developed by DRDO's Combat Vehicles Research and Development Establishment (CVRDE) at Avadi near Chennai and has high degree of mobility, superior firepower and excellent protection, it said.

Heavy Vehicles Factory began producing the five Arjun's in 2000 after the Army placed an indent following successful user-cum-technical trials.

The MBT is equipped with an indigenously developed 120 mm gun, besides a specially developed "KANCHAN" armour resulting in high level of protection.

The tank has a home-grown hydro-gas suspension which offers rider comfort, eliminating fatigue on extended runs.

"The special systems which include integrated fire detection and suppression system, nuclear, biological and chemical (NBC) system, advanced communication system provide added capabilities to the Arjun Tank," DRDO said.



PTI


http://news.indiainfo.com/2004/08/02/0208arjun.html
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Old August 29th, 2004   #68
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Re: India's MBT: Arjun and its standing among Tanks

Makes me want to giggle to every other person I meet about the so-called 'praise' articles that you guys have been posting about Arjun; now that the Indian Army is also having second thoughts after acquiring the tank. My suggestion, shut down Arjun plans and use the much needed resources elsewhere; where economical and efficient results would be produced; results that are 100% effective on the battle-field and dont become mere 'scare-crows' for the enemy.
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Old August 29th, 2004   #69
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Re: India's MBT: Arjun and its standing among Tanks

Just to show you how confusing the Indian media is, I'm going to show two news articles about Arjun that completely contradicts each other.

From Outlookindia.com, written by Indian reporter
Link: http://www.outlookindia.com/pti_news.asp?id=240827

Quote:
Arjun tanks roll out
CHENNAI, AUG 7 (PTI)
The first batch of five indigenously built 'Arjun' Main Battle Tanks formally rolled out of the Heavy Vehicles Factory at suburban Avadi today.

Describing the event as a red letter day, Defence Minister Pranab Mukherjee said on the occasion that "India should be equally vigilant and determined not to secede even one millimetre of her land to anyone though she had no territorial ambitions.

India was not keen on annexing any territory or expanding her own territory, he said.

Chief of Army Staff Gen N.C.Vij said India was keen to have lesser dependence on import of tools of warfare.

Mukherjee said despite the fact that there was "major improvement" in the international environment, "at the same time it is a hard fact that peace is still elusive".

"Today, by rolling out these tanks, we are able to demonstrate to the entire world our capabilities in the areas of science and technology, management and our defence preparedness", he said.

The minister, who also released a souvenir to mark the roll out, said the private business sector and industrial houses have a major role to play in the defence preparedness, as everything cannot be done by the government from its meagre budgetary support.

"We have limited resources and that has to be complemented by the private sector which has to show interest and share its responsibility to the nation," he said.

The Minister of state for defence, B K Handique, said many sub-assemblies in the Arjun tank had to be imported now.

Since the country possessed enough expertise, it should be possible to bring down the dependence on imports to the minimum "as early as possible" and organisations such as DRDO and Ordnance Factories, which developed the Arjun tank, should take the initiative in this regard.

Chief of Army Staff Gen N C Vij described the rolling out function as a 'red letter day' for the country.

Pointing out that battle tanks were "complex tools in wars", Vij said these indigenously built tanks must withstand the rigours of combat conditions and prove their combat worthiness.

Arjun tanks were far superior to other battle tanks in the world, he claimed.

Dr V K Aatre, Scientific Advisor to Defence Minister, said by the year 2007, the DRDO would complete 50 years of its existence. Since technology was fast changing, "we must look as to how we can upgrade our technology".

Dr M Natarajan, who presented a profile of Arjun tanks, said the present 50 per cent indigenisation should be taken to 85 per cent as the number of tanks produced went up in the coming years. The army had placed orders for 124 Arjun tanks, which would be supplied before the end of 2007.

Director General of Ordnance Factories P K Misra said the rolling out of Arjun tanks was yet another milestone in India's history of achieving the national goal of self-reliance in defence.

Fifteen Ordnance factories in the country were associated with the manufacture of 'Arjun,' he said.

Arjun rolled out exactly seven months after the first T-90 S tank 'Bhishma' was dedicated to the nation.

Ten more tanks in the 'Arjun' class were at various stages of production and they would be delivered to the Army before this year end.

The tank has been designed and developed by the scientists and technologists of the Combat Vehicle Research and Development Establishment, Avadi, under Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO).

It has high degree of mobility, superior firepower and excellent protection with accurate and faster target acquisition capability during day and night in all types of weather conditions.

The indigenously developed 120 mm gun with its high velocity ammunition can defeat any contemporary armour used in tanks.

Special features like integrated fire detection and suppression system, nuclear, biological and chemical system, state-of-the-art communication system provided added capabilities to the Arjun tank.
From Defencenews.com, also written by Indian reporter.
Link: http://www.defensenews.com/story.php...1494&C=asiapac

Quote:
After 30-Year Wait, India Rejects Arjun for Combat
By VIVEK RAGHUVANSHI, NEW DELHI


After waiting 30 years for its indigenously designed Arjun main battle tank, the Indian Army has decided the tank is too heavy for combat.

“It has been decided to use the Arjun main battle tank only for training purposes and not for combat purposes,” said a senior Indian Army official. He added that the Arjun’s weight makes the tank difficult to transport and inhibits maneuverability.

Quote:
The Arjun order also has been trimmed from 124 to 80 since it will be used only for training, said the Army official. The first batch of five Arjuns were delivered Aug. 7 to the Army by the Heavy Vehicles Factory at Avadi in Chennai.


Another Army official said the 58.5-ton Arjun tank is much heavier and wider than the 46.5-ton Russian T-90 tank, which limits its operational mobility.

Problems plagued the Arjun from its inception in 1974 by India’s state-owned Defence Research and Development Organisation. The first prototype was conceived in 1984, but the Army found a variety of problems involving its weight, engine overheating and armor protection. Arjun was planned to be ready in 1990 and mass produced by 1997.

Following delays, the Indian government struck a memorandum of understanding with Russia in 2000 to procure 310 T-90 tanks. Under the deal, 180 tanks are to be produced under licensed production at the Avadi Heavy Vehicles Factory, and the remaining 130 will be provided to India either fully or partially built, and final assembly would be done in India.

An official of the Indian Ordnance Factories Board, which controls the Avadi factory, said production priorities at Avadi have been shifted, leaving only one assembly line to build Arjuns, while the other two will produce T-90 tanks and upgrade T-72 tanks.

A senior Indian Defence Ministry official would not confirm the Arjun order had been reduced, and claimed that the tank’s problems have been fixed.

The official acknowledged, however, there is a transportation problem because the Arjun is too large for the vehicles already used to transport the T-72 and T-90. Special transport vehicles have been ordered to move the Arjuns, he said.

The Arjuns will cost about $5 million apiece, sources said, which is higher than the T-90 tank because the cost of imported components in the tank have increased from 27 percent to 60 percent.

Early this year, an Israeli Lahat anti-tank missile was mounted on an Arjun tank. The Arjun has a 120mm gun, a 7.22mm machine gun for ground operations and a 12.7mm machine gun for the anti-aircraft role.

The 120mm gun has been procured from France’s GIAT Industries, the engine from MTU and the transmission system from Renk, both of Germany, and the fire control system from Oldelft Instruments of the Netherlands.
Who has the correct info? I'll let you decide.
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Old August 29th, 2004   #70
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The gun isn't made in Gait and why are their no names?
7.22 mm gun? is he joking?
I think the reporters going through gossip at the best.
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Old August 29th, 2004   #71
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Re: India's MBT: Arjun and its standing among Tanks



i would believe defensenews over any india newspaper. Vivek has been with defensenews since long time, obviously he is good thats why.

looks like india better shop for another MBT since this is going going gone!
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Old September 24th, 2004   #72
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any good video of arjun
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Old October 15th, 2004   #73
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Re: India's MBT: Arjun and its standing among Tanks

personally india will nto make its own satisfactory tank until a few decades into teh future
??? Arjun 5???
by then tanks will be extinct???
times achangin
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Old October 16th, 2004   #74
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Re: India's MBT: Arjun and its standing among Tanks

Not really! Althought the use of tanks has shrunk somewhat but saying that they would be 'extinct' is a bit of an exaggerated piece of imagination. They certainly are going to be around for a long time to come.
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Old October 16th, 2004   #75
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Re: India's MBT: Arjun and its standing among Tanks

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Pak says our tanks better, India wants to test


Arjun will be tested against T-90 in Rajasthan desert this month



SHIV AROOR


Posted online: Wednesday, October 13, 2004 at 0243 hours IST



NEW DELHI, OCTOBER 12: The Indian Defence establishment may not like to admit it but Pakistan President Musharraf’s claim that their indigenous Al Khalid main battle tank is superior to the DRDO’s Arjun tank has prompted Army headquarters to review the latter’s capabilities.

The Army top brass have directed the Armoured Corps to compare the Arjun with the Russian-made T-90, through extensive trials beginning this month in the Mahajan ranges of Rajasthan.



According to South Block sources, the five Arjun production-series tanks, handed over by the DRDO in August, will be tested against the T-90s before any decision is taken on inducting more indigenous tanks.

Apart from these five Arjuns, the 43rd Armoured Regiment had been given 14 Arjuns in the past decade, but these were from the pre-production series.

While the DRDO continues to stress on technical parameters like ‘‘specific ground pressure’’ to showcase Arjun, the Army knows that Musharraf may be right as the power-to-weight ratio of Al Khalid is better than the Indian tank.

The Army brass admit that though the Arjun has an excellent armour, a South African gun, an Israeli fire-control system and space, its bulk is still a hurdle. At 56 tons, the Arjun is 13 tons heavier than the Al Khalid, which is a joint effort of the Chinese-Pakistan-Ukrainian industries. Arjun has a 1500 horse-power engine against the Ukranian 1200 horse-power engine in Khalid, but the former churns out 24 hp per ton as compared to the latter’s 26 hp per ton.

It is this power-to-weight ratio — a direct function of the tank’s agility and mobility — that can be a matter of life and death during a war. Besides, at Rs 16 crore a piece, the Arjun is costlier than the Khalid.

While the Pakistan’s Ministry of Defence declined comment, defence analyst K Subrahmanyam said the Arjun was begun with a ‘‘wrong philosophy, just like every other DRDO project of that period.’’

Speaking to The Indian Express, the former Secretary of Defence Production said: ‘‘The DRDO chose not to collaborate with the Russians. It understated the cost of development and this led to time and cost overruns. I knew the Arjun was nowhere close to being operational.’’ However, Arjun has a votary in the former Army chief and Rajya Sabha MP, General Shankar Roy Choudhary. ‘‘I pressed strongly to get Arjun MBT productionalised and put into service while I was in service. But I was also very critical about the delays.’’

‘‘The Arjun project is a case history in bad project management. I still maintain that Arjun, even if it is more costly, will in the long run improve the industrialisation in the country.’’ But at Army Headquarters, they are taking no chances. It is already clear that the missile-firing T-90, not the Arjun, will be India’s main battle tank.

Due to shortage of attack helicopters, the Army has to rely on tanks in case hostilities break out. The Army has also instructed the DRDO to speed up production of Arjun tanks rather than handing them over in piece-meal basis.

But before placing its next order, it will wait for the result of the Arjun versus T-90 tests this winter.

http://www.indianexpress.com/full_st...ntent_id=56882
agian stupid reporting. I don't know what to believe. The gun now is South African and the weight is 56 tons? Thats the weight of Bhim. This would be quite interesting and the results would be probabily one sided either Arjun wins by a long run or the T-90. But in either case what ever tank the IA dicides to get will be the best tank in South Asia for a long time. I'd like to see DRDO through Isreali tank crew in the Arjun and Indian tan crew in the T-90. The Isrealis would use the Lahat missile and long range to the fullest.
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