Hezbollah landforces
- Thread starter marcvs75
- Start date
Honestly i dont think anyone will have a real idea of their strength... but hizballah isnt an conventional army, infact they are pretty much the worlds largest prv army in that they dont belong to any country. I do know for a fact they are very well trained, they have officers on the ground and their tactics are farely well organized compared to Hamas, or Iraqi resistance fighters this guys are way better trained and geared. They mainly do hit an run and guerilla tactics.
I am rather impress tho that they have and can opperate some high tech gear... if you watch bbc today. IDF found some of their weapon stocks and they even have a TOW missile in their armory.
on wikipedia it is said their strength is around a thousand to a few hundread. But i bet that number has swelled in the past 2 weeks
I am rather impress tho that they have and can opperate some high tech gear... if you watch bbc today. IDF found some of their weapon stocks and they even have a TOW missile in their armory.
on wikipedia it is said their strength is around a thousand to a few hundread. But i bet that number has swelled in the past 2 weeks
hizbollah's main strenght isnt their numbers but their experience. they'r battle hardened fighters and fighting for a cause for which they are ready to give up every thing. and the terrain is perfect for a gurilla war.
in my view they have mostly RPG-7's, M-16's, AK's, various sniper rifles and might also have ATGM's that were left overs from Bosnia and Kosovo.
in my view they have mostly RPG-7's, M-16's, AK's, various sniper rifles and might also have ATGM's that were left overs from Bosnia and Kosovo.
They have about 800 full time troops and about 3000 reseveres, mostly older retired troops.
They train their troops from the age of about 9/10. The closest analogy is the Jannisery or the Spartans.
One interview with an IDF intelligence officer I read compared them to a mini IDF
in command and control. He said during the early years of the Lebanon conflict the exchange rate was 10 hezbullah to 1 IDF. By the close of the conflict the exchange rate had reversed to 1 hezzbullah to 2 IDF.
Another interview with a Hezzbullah fighter was revealing, when asked what was Hezzbullah's main strenght, he said patience. During his training he would be sent to a building and told to wait until relived. He was told not to leave for anything. He waited a week before being relived, he was half starved and dehidrated by that time, he said he was willing to die waiting, that says a lot in my book.
In terms of kit it is mostly 1970's era gear with a few more modern weapons.
They dont use suicide bombings anymore, and they dont use suicide tactics.
The last war turned when 12 navy commandos(not a 100 % on that figure lost the link) died during ambush in southern Lebanon, after the event Hezbullah put it out they were informed of the units movements by a high level arab infoemer in the IDF. After that the IDF begain to hold out posts rather than conduct sweeps of the area along the border. The inititive had passed to Hezzbullah.
By holding terretory in the present conflict they have made a break with their past conduct. Either they dont rate the Israeies or they have become over confident, or both.
They train their troops from the age of about 9/10. The closest analogy is the Jannisery or the Spartans.
One interview with an IDF intelligence officer I read compared them to a mini IDF
in command and control. He said during the early years of the Lebanon conflict the exchange rate was 10 hezbullah to 1 IDF. By the close of the conflict the exchange rate had reversed to 1 hezzbullah to 2 IDF.
Another interview with a Hezzbullah fighter was revealing, when asked what was Hezzbullah's main strenght, he said patience. During his training he would be sent to a building and told to wait until relived. He was told not to leave for anything. He waited a week before being relived, he was half starved and dehidrated by that time, he said he was willing to die waiting, that says a lot in my book.
In terms of kit it is mostly 1970's era gear with a few more modern weapons.
They dont use suicide bombings anymore, and they dont use suicide tactics.
The last war turned when 12 navy commandos(not a 100 % on that figure lost the link) died during ambush in southern Lebanon, after the event Hezbullah put it out they were informed of the units movements by a high level arab infoemer in the IDF. After that the IDF begain to hold out posts rather than conduct sweeps of the area along the border. The inititive had passed to Hezzbullah.
By holding terretory in the present conflict they have made a break with their past conduct. Either they dont rate the Israeies or they have become over confident, or both.
i dont agree on the numbers but one thing is clear that ther are goooood! not in the political sence but militarily. bint jubail is a prime example. the only way to stop them is by reaching a compromise which is unlikely. if this goes on hisbollah will only grow stronger. there is allready news that they are buying more and more weapons(mostly ATGM's, IED's and if they can SAM's), got this news from someone very reliable(MI). Hezbollah dont have an economy but israel does so its hurting israel more and the civilians in lebanon even more.
Nah, Hezbollah has to have its own source of money collection (ie, an economy), otherwise they wouldn't be able to afford their weapon purchases. The nation that has the largest population displacement and more homes destroyed, which in this case is Lebanon, will be the ones most hurt by the war. War hurts everyone though.
What I find interesting, however, is Hezbollah's lack of suicide campaigning. While it's certainly successful at destroying a large amount of infrastructure and humanbeings in Iraq, it really doesn't achieve anything, either. Part of being the victor is staying alive. It sounds to me like the Hezbollah generals are fairly intelligent. You will never beat a conventional army unless you battle them conventionally (and a conventional army will never beat a guarilla army unless they change their strategy to match). The IDF is very conventional, very professional, and extremely powerful, and Hezbollah knows this. Like any conventional military platform though, it requires the use of several "ace cards", as Manstein likes to call them (armour, air force). Looks like Hezbollah is planning several ace cards of their own.
What I find interesting, however, is Hezbollah's lack of suicide campaigning. While it's certainly successful at destroying a large amount of infrastructure and humanbeings in Iraq, it really doesn't achieve anything, either. Part of being the victor is staying alive. It sounds to me like the Hezbollah generals are fairly intelligent. You will never beat a conventional army unless you battle them conventionally (and a conventional army will never beat a guarilla army unless they change their strategy to match). The IDF is very conventional, very professional, and extremely powerful, and Hezbollah knows this. Like any conventional military platform though, it requires the use of several "ace cards", as Manstein likes to call them (armour, air force). Looks like Hezbollah is planning several ace cards of their own.
i did not mean that lebonan wasnt loosing out i ment the bombing is hardly affecting hizbollah. they earn money by charity, lets not forget Iran and several businesses outside lebonan.
and yes killing yourself is a stupid staratigy if it can be called a stratigy at all. this is where all other Jihadi and freedom fighters differ from al-qaida(aka-woussy perverts). all suicide bombing does is turn the wider population against you. it is to be noted thar most of the US soldiers killed were as a result of IED's and ambushes(classic gurilla tactics). so it really smart of hizbollah to do what they are currently doing. a for israel they will never win cause more they move in, more outsiders(hope osama stays out) will start comming in to fight.
and yes killing yourself is a stupid staratigy if it can be called a stratigy at all. this is where all other Jihadi and freedom fighters differ from al-qaida(aka-woussy perverts). all suicide bombing does is turn the wider population against you. it is to be noted thar most of the US soldiers killed were as a result of IED's and ambushes(classic gurilla tactics). so it really smart of hizbollah to do what they are currently doing. a for israel they will never win cause more they move in, more outsiders(hope osama stays out) will start comming in to fight.
This is the best analysis I've read of this stupid war to date
http://www.exile.ru/2006-July-28/a_hezbollah_upon_all_of_thee.html
enjoy
http://www.exile.ru/2006-July-28/a_hezbollah_upon_all_of_thee.html
enjoy
contedicavour
New Member
IMHO the Hezbollah's main strength is modern public opinion's unease at suffering casualties (all the more so if they are or ... look civilian).
Some decades ago losing hundreds or even thousands of soldiers (think of Vietnam) in a guerrilla war was considered tragic but not entirely unacceptable provided the logic was there (fight against communism, etc).
In today's world losing as many soldiers even if you were fighting the devil himself would be considered unacceptable (even in the US, though the tolerance level is a bit higher in the US than elsewhere). I'm not even mentioning of course the impact on world opinion of a mistake costing the lives of tens of children as it just happened in Cana
So to summarize, even only a thousand battle hardened guerrillas, supported by Iran's money and weapons, and to some degree liked by part of the local population, have all the chances to upset even a tough-minded country as Israel. Whatever the readers' opinions on this absurd conflict, it is a fact that we are hostage to a few hundred guerrillas' tactics and not even one of the best trained armies in the world seems to be able to do much about it.
One hell of an example for guerrillas the world over !!
Some decades ago losing hundreds or even thousands of soldiers (think of Vietnam) in a guerrilla war was considered tragic but not entirely unacceptable provided the logic was there (fight against communism, etc).
In today's world losing as many soldiers even if you were fighting the devil himself would be considered unacceptable (even in the US, though the tolerance level is a bit higher in the US than elsewhere). I'm not even mentioning of course the impact on world opinion of a mistake costing the lives of tens of children as it just happened in Cana
So to summarize, even only a thousand battle hardened guerrillas, supported by Iran's money and weapons, and to some degree liked by part of the local population, have all the chances to upset even a tough-minded country as Israel. Whatever the readers' opinions on this absurd conflict, it is a fact that we are hostage to a few hundred guerrillas' tactics
and not even one of the best trained armies in the world seems to be able to do much about it.One hell of an example for guerrillas the world over !!
I agree, but who's we? as far as I am aware Ireland is'ent at war with Israel or Lebanon, or Hezzbullah. or defencetalk for that matter.
It is one hell of an example all right, but I'm not that impressed by some of those shots of IDF troops waving their guns around and grinning like Idiots, dont they know there's a war on! they look like boy scouts!
PommeDeGuerre
New Member
Out of context shots of soldiers being happy or proud or just waving for mom back at home don't mean they're revelling in bloodshed. I wouldn't be so quick to judge.merocaine said:
I know their not reveling in bloodshed i did'ent say that I said they look like boy scouts, read the post first then judge. They look like kids playing at soldiers.
I've never in all the time the US or Britian has been in Iraq have I ever seen any of thier troops waving thier guns around and grinning like idiots. Apart from the Golani and the Paras the rest of the IDF looks like there on a Day trip to the Zoo.I heard the Israeli Prime Minister say Israel is fighting for its very existance someone better tell those guys
PommeDeGuerre
New Member
I don't know what pictures you're talking about of course, but most pictures give a poor context or timeframe - I've seen pictures purporting to show what you say, but the pictures aren't necessarily from this conflict (or any conflict for that matter). You can't expect a bunch of young guys full of testosterone to walk around wearing sombre expressions all the time. I imagine a lot of them have been champing at the bit to stand up for their country for some time now. (edit: the debate on the merits of this war isn't relevant here, of course; how they feel about it is)merocaine said:
I don't reply to posts without reading them btw. My point wasn't that you were accusing them of that - maybe I should've used different language - it was that pictures and video clips don't provide good context and are usually a poor thing to make judgments from.
contedicavour
New Member
By "we" I mean the international community. I'm not necessarily taking sides (although I have my clear and strong opinion but I keep it for me) but the UN made a resolution ordering disarmament of guerrillas such as Hezbollahs. The international community hasn't been able to enforce this.merocaine said:
That's why I'm saying "we" are hostage. Ireland being a very loyal UN member
Jokes apart your soldiers are with ours in UNIFIL mission in Southern Lebanon so I guess you perfectly know what I'm talking about.cheers
I'm not sure i understand, we're not being held hostage we can leave anytime we want. Were there to hold the ring and report ceasefire violations we have no mandate to engage either side.
Irish troops have been killed by both sides during our time in the Leb, and both sides have made it know that were not wanted by word and by deed, As resent UN deaths have shown.
The UN makes lots of resulutions calling for many thing in the middle east, theres not much point respecting one and discarding others.
On the other point, your dead right it is very hard to fight a war when every causlty is turned into a media circus, something which Hezzbullah understand very well.
The Israelies should have imposed a media black out on there side for the duration, and gone in hard from the start, this slow ratcheting up of pressure
has allowed Hezzbullah to adapt and counter each Israeli move.
Hezzbullahs unity of message, and command and control has been awesome.
What ever happens this is a conflict which will be studied for years to come,
I wonder if it is a cultural thing, this unity of purpose, it is rare that a gurrilla organisation has been so immune to infiltration. Even the IRA a very successful terrorist organisation which has survived for over 40 years in a very small area, was heavly compromised by the time a ceasefire was declared.
Is it a Lebonese thing or just a Shia Lebonese thing? What ever they are the poorest community in the Lebanon, and the poor always make the toughest soldiers.
contedicavour
New Member
Well if we left it would be yet another shameful defeat for the UN and its member states. We're supposed to be able to implement UN resolutions and not be chased away by a guerrilla faction that in theory we should disarm...merocaine said:
Not that I would be fond to do it, much the contrary. I personally woudn't risk the life of even a single Italian soldier or marine. However if we all keep out of there, any guerrilla anywhere will always win. Or we'll let individual countries run their own vengeance... and bye bye any hope
In a ground fight i take hezbollah over idf anytime of the week. Idf soldiers look like kids when fighting face to face. Hezbollah fights to the death and i dont think idf soldiers were well prepared to take that on. I am not anti israel but in a str8 up land fight with no air power hezbollah defeats idf.
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Hezbollah Is More Sophisticated Than Expected
Hezbollah Is More Sophisticated Than Expected
http://thetrumpet.com/index.php?page=article&id=2423
The war between Israel and Hezbollah has now lasted 23 days. Israel, to this point, despite undertaking over 5,000 bombing sorties and sending thousands of troops onto the ground in Lebanon, has been unable to even slow down Hezbollah’s relentless rocket attacks.
One of the biggest surprises of this war has been the sophistication of Hezbollah’s offensive. In addition to its canny media campaign, which has done much to swing international opinion against Israel and into its own favor, Hezbollah has employed a very effective military strategy—digging in to well-fortified, well-stocked bunkers that are effectively resistant to Israeli air assaults—and is using more-advanced weaponry than Israel was aware it possessed.
A few examples tell the story. Israel was surprised to learn on July 14, when an Israeli missile boat off the Lebanese coast was almost sunk, that Hezbollah possessed a radar-guided c-802 anti-ship missile that Iran had acquired from China. Commanders in Israel’s Armored Corps say Hezbollah has been using Russian anti-tank guided missiles; they have recovered shells or launchers of two anti-tank systems, one of which has a greater range than that of Israel’s anti-tank weapons. On July 28, five Hezbollah rockets reached the town of Afula, about seven miles south of Nazareth—deeper into Israeli territory than any previous attacks; the Israeli Defense Force claims they were Fajr-5 rockets, which have a 200-pound warhead (double that of the Fajr-3 rockets that are hitting Haifa, further north) and a 45-mile range. On top of all these has been the sheer volume of rockets Hezbollah has launched (last week alone it fired over 1,500; this week has been comparable). Apparently they have enough at their disposal to fire them almost indiscriminately (as Daniel Henninger wrote last week, they’re using “unguided artillery Katyusha rockets like bullets”), with no signs of letting up, and the distinct possibility that even more powerful armaments wait in store.
In addition to demonstrating the strength of Hezbollah, these facts demonstrate an astounding failure of Israeli intelligence. Again and again, Israel has been caught off guard by Hezbollah’s capabilities. “Such failures are surprising and discouraging, given that Israel has been tracking and fighting Hezbollah for nearly a quarter-century,” wrote Bret Stephens in OpinionJoural.
Israeli efforts to characterize their offensive to this point as a victory are, sadly, belied by the facts. In reality, Israel is up against what intelligence firm Stratfor says could be “the most resilient and well-motivated opposition force in its history.”
Hezbollah Is More Sophisticated Than Expected
http://thetrumpet.com/index.php?page=article&id=2423
The war between Israel and Hezbollah has now lasted 23 days. Israel, to this point, despite undertaking over 5,000 bombing sorties and sending thousands of troops onto the ground in Lebanon, has been unable to even slow down Hezbollah’s relentless rocket attacks.
One of the biggest surprises of this war has been the sophistication of Hezbollah’s offensive. In addition to its canny media campaign, which has done much to swing international opinion against Israel and into its own favor, Hezbollah has employed a very effective military strategy—digging in to well-fortified, well-stocked bunkers that are effectively resistant to Israeli air assaults—and is using more-advanced weaponry than Israel was aware it possessed.
A few examples tell the story. Israel was surprised to learn on July 14, when an Israeli missile boat off the Lebanese coast was almost sunk, that Hezbollah possessed a radar-guided c-802 anti-ship missile that Iran had acquired from China. Commanders in Israel’s Armored Corps say Hezbollah has been using Russian anti-tank guided missiles; they have recovered shells or launchers of two anti-tank systems, one of which has a greater range than that of Israel’s anti-tank weapons. On July 28, five Hezbollah rockets reached the town of Afula, about seven miles south of Nazareth—deeper into Israeli territory than any previous attacks; the Israeli Defense Force claims they were Fajr-5 rockets, which have a 200-pound warhead (double that of the Fajr-3 rockets that are hitting Haifa, further north) and a 45-mile range. On top of all these has been the sheer volume of rockets Hezbollah has launched (last week alone it fired over 1,500; this week has been comparable). Apparently they have enough at their disposal to fire them almost indiscriminately (as Daniel Henninger wrote last week, they’re using “unguided artillery Katyusha rockets like bullets”), with no signs of letting up, and the distinct possibility that even more powerful armaments wait in store.
In addition to demonstrating the strength of Hezbollah, these facts demonstrate an astounding failure of Israeli intelligence. Again and again, Israel has been caught off guard by Hezbollah’s capabilities. “Such failures are surprising and discouraging, given that Israel has been tracking and fighting Hezbollah for nearly a quarter-century,” wrote Bret Stephens in OpinionJoural.
Israeli efforts to characterize their offensive to this point as a victory are, sadly, belied by the facts. In reality, Israel is up against what intelligence firm Stratfor says could be “the most resilient and well-motivated opposition force in its history.”
Grand Danois
Entertainer
No doubt that Hezbollah is resilient and determined. However, wether the IDF are militarily succesful depend upon what their strategic objectives are, rather than a situational metric.watchman said:
If their objective is to overextend Hezbollah, in order to score a high Hezbollah bodycount as they slowly progress into Lebanon, then they are succesful.
If their objective is to expend Hezbollah military capacity, so as to prepare the setting for an international force, then they are succesful.
If their objective is to establish a sense of crisis in the international community, in order for it to commit peacekeeping troops, then they are succesful.
The Hezbollah rockets fired towards Israel matters little for this outcome. Therefore this is not a metric for succes/failure.
Not taking sides, just an attempt at a cold analysis.