Challenger 2 gets L/55

Waylander

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First a Picture of a Challenger 2 with an L/55.

http://img102.imageshack.us/img102/5966/cr2sbrws1ev.jpg

The Challenger 2 might get the L/55 from Rheinmetall. The main problem with the L30 is that the ammo factory is closed.
Maybe another factor is that by using the L/55 the UK tanks are able to use the logistic system of the US.
They whant to buy the DM63 from germany and the HE ammo from Sweden.
What do you think about that?
 

Waylander

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The picture is from the Lüneburger Heide in germany.
They whant to use the heat hull (I don't know the english word for that) of the L30 also with the L/55 that's not so expensive. We also use our old ones and just put additonal 1,30 meters onto it.

Admin: Waylander, heat hull = thermal collar
 
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chrisrobsoar

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The following article tells the story.


22 February 2006 JDW

Christopher F Foss
Jane's Land Forces Contributing Editor, London

Challenger 2 tested with 120 mm smoothbore gun

A British Army Challenger 2 main battle tank (MBT) armed with a hybrid German Rheinmetall 120 mm L/55 smoothbore gun has recently undergone a series of successful firing trials in the UK.

The British Army has a total of 386 BAE Systems Land Systems Challenger 2 MBTs all armed with a 120 mm L30 rifled tank gun. The UK is the only major NATO member to use a 120 mm rifled tank gun as most countries now opt for a 120 mm smoothbore weapon.

The 120 mm L30 rifled tank gun fires a depleted uranium (DU) type armour-piercing fin-stabilised discarding sabot (APFSDS) projectile that is only used in combat.

There has been no recent UK production of the 120 mm DU round, which is now out of favour with most countries, or of other 120 mm ammunition types such as smoke or high-explosive squash head (HESH).

Following a competition, the then RO Defence was awarded a GBP3.5 million plus (USD6 million) contract from the Defence Procurement Agency (DPA) for the 120 mm Smoothbore Option Technical Demonstrator Programme (SO TDP).
The programme essentially uses the German Rhein-metal! 120 mm U55 smoothbore tank gun, which is fitted into the latest German Krauss-Maffei Wegmann Leopard 2A6 MOT. So far two hybrid 120 mm U55 barrels have been supplied to the UK plus a quantity of ammunition.

Ballistically the new weapon is the same as the German 120 mm L/55 but externally can tit into the space previously occupied by the L30.
The current Challenger 2 installation retains the L30 rifled gun's cradle, gun clamp, thermal sleeve, fume extractor and muzzle reference system.
Following trials in Germany the weapon was also tested in a static mount installed on a Centurion chassis in mid-2005 and late last year was finally integrated into a Challenger 2 MBT.

Static firing trials have been conducted against a wide range of targets firing the Rheinmetall 120 mm DM53 APFSDS projectile with a conventional penetrator. These trials are understood to have shown that the DM53 gives enhanced performance over the current 120 mm CHallenger ARMament (CHARM) 3 DU round.
 

gf0012-aust

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One of the things that irritates me is that Oz was offered some very good deals with Leo2A4's - and I'm sure that we clould have got a similar deal from the UK disposing of Chally 2 NATO stocks.

Oz could have had 3 times as many Chally2's for the price of the modified Abrams we ended up with - which IMV are a better armoured platform than the Abrams
 

Waylander

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Often enough defence contracts are political and not rational. ;)
 

Whiskyjack

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gf0012-aust said:
One of the things that irritates me is that Oz was offered some very good deals with Leo2A4's - and I'm sure that we clould have got a similar deal from the UK disposing of Chally 2 NATO stocks.

Oz could have had 3 times as many Chally2's for the price of the modified Abrams we ended up with - which IMV are a better armoured platform than the Abrams
I haven't heard that the UK is trying to dispose of their spare C2s.

I know that the UK built 385 C2s, and they are going down to 5 regiments comprised of 3 squadrons (down from 4), so that would be 44 tanks per squadron, or a total of 220. They lost at least 1 in 2003 to a friendly fire incident, may have lost more to accidents etc...

Say they have 160 left, you would also need some for training and then war stocks.... I wouldn't think they would have a lot left to sell.

I stand to be corrected tho.

I agree the Leo IIs upgraded to A6 standard would have been a good purchase, the Germans seem to have gotten rid of a lot of A4s, in hot demand, I think they even donated 120 odd to the Polish!
 

gf0012-aust

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Whiskyjack said:
I haven't heard that the UK is trying to dispose of their spare C2s.
The Chally2's were a late offer. They were much too late to change the other stuff in train though.

mores the pity.
 

Whiskyjack

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gf0012-aust said:
The Chally2's were a late offer. They were much too late to change the other stuff in train though.

mores the pity.
Interesting, if they are up for offer, then maybe South Africa? Strong industrial ties.

The C2 with the L55 should be a very potent force. Interesting to note that the UK has gone from 1200 MTBs in the mid '80s to potentially under 300. The same with the rest of the Continent, even the Germans have only a few hundred A6s.

If only those pesky terrorists would conform to the Warsaw Pact doctrine of mass tank attacks!
 

gf0012-aust

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Whiskyjack said:
Interesting, if they are up for offer, then maybe South Africa? Strong industrial ties.

The C2 with the L55 should be a very potent force. Interesting to note that the UK has gone from 1200 MTBs in the mid '80s to potentially under 300. The same with the rest of the Continent, even the Germans have only a few hundred A6s.

If only those pesky terrorists would conform to the Warsaw Pact doctrine of mass tank attacks!
what a choice, Chally2's, German Leo2's or Swiss Leo2's. and we end up with bloody great big chrysler "le barons" ;)
 

Whiskyjack

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gf0012-aust said:
what a choice, Chally2's, German Leo2's or Swiss Leo2's. and we end up with bloody great big chrysler "le barons" ;)
Yes politics is an interesting animal, which is never fully tamed by any defence force. To think petrol prices are going up as well!

It would have been nice to have 110-120 MTBs, so that a reserve regiment could have been equipped. Would also be nice to think that the UK could have 2 reserve regiments as well.
 

aaaditya

New Member
hey guys i have a few questions regarding the l55 gun:

1)what is its muzzle velocity?

2)weight and the recoil force of the gun?

3)elevation and depression angles of the gun?

4)does it have the ability to fire an anti tank missile,if so does britain or any other european country have such a programme?
 

oskarm

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Whiskyjack said:
I know that the UK built 385 C2s, and they are going down to 5 regiments comprised of 3 squadrons (down from 4), so that would be 44 tanks per squadron, or a total of 220.
They are going to keep 300 so only 86 or now 85 are surplus. (source: JDW)

Whiskyjack said:
I think they even donated 120 odd to the Polish!
128. We have paid something like 30 000 euro per tank. Just for bringing them back to service, after they have been kept for a few years in stocks. Now they are in service with 10th Armored Cav Brigade (116) other are in two tank schools.
 

Waylander

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30 000€ is not so much for tank which is totally overhauled. ;)

@aaaditya
- V0 is 1750 m/s
- The weight is 4160 kg
- There is no european ATGM fired from a 120mm smooth bore gun.

I'm searching for the other points. :)
 

chrisrobsoar

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aaaditya said:
hey guys i have a few questions regarding the l55 gun:

1)what is its muzzle velocity?

2)weight and the recoil force of the gun?

3)elevation and depression angles of the gun?

4)does it have the ability to fire an anti tank missile,if so does britain or any other european country have such a programme?
The following link is a very good history of the Leopard 2 MBT. It includes a good description with diagrams and pictures of both L/44 and L/55 120mm smooth bore guns.

http://www.fprado.com/armorsite/leo2.htm

Chris
 

Bfn42

New Member
Yes that website is very good


and actually.....theres other tanks they talk about to...(abrams,chally2,merk4) All you have to do is replace the /armorsite/leo2.htm with /armorsite/chall2.htm
 

green

New Member
why not

why not the l55 proved to be the best tank gun in the world it arms the leopad2a6 battle tank and the m1a1 battle tank and they are one of the best tanks in the battle field
 

Pursuit Curve

New Member
Is the current main gun on the Challenger rifled or smooth bore?
I suspect that the weapon is rifled, in which case the effeciency of the smoothbore will probably be a wise move by the British Army. Smooth bores have superior performance when using HEAT and SABOT rounds, this is because the rifling degrades teh heat round as well as the SABOT round.

But again I am no sure if teh Challenger currently uses a rifled tube....
 

Waylander

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@Pursuit Curve
Yes the Challi 2 uses the rifled L30.

@green
The L/55 is not used in the M1AX.
 

Pursuit Curve

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Thats what I thoughtm I also believe that they use a seperate packaged propelaant bag. I remember that when the Chieftan was around there was alot of criticism reagrding supply and logistics regards ammunition commonality.

I would choose the Rhinmetal 120 any day, as good a tank gun as any!
 
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