Australian Army Discussions and Updates

[cherry]

Does anyone know when the decision will be made on the chosen platform for Land 17 and when they are due to enter service? I have lost track due to so many changes with this project.

[MARKMILES77]

The Request For Tender is due to be released in early 2007 now.


From DMO site:

{{Projects

LAND 17 - Artillery Replacement - 105mm & 155mm

Current Status
Point of Contact

Project Overview
LAND 17 will improve the Australian Army indirect fire support system through the replacement or enhancement of the 105mm Hamel Howitzer and 155mm M198 Howitzer fleet, when they reach the end of their service life.

Identified needs that may relate to this phase include:

artillery delivered high precision munitions;
an integrated and networked battlement management system for fires; and
improved delivery platforms.
Project background and proposal information is available in the current published Defence Capability Plan (DCP).

Current Status
TOP
This project achieved First Pass approval on 14 February 2006. In-service delivery is anticipated from 2011.
It is expected that a Request for Tender will be released in late 2006.

Point of Contact
TOP
LAND 17 – Artillery Replacement Project
Combat Support Systems Program Office
Land Combat Systems Branch
Land Systems Division
Defence Materiel Organisation
Victoria Barracks Melbourne
256-310 St Kilda Road
SOUTHBANK VIC 3006
Australia
Project Director
Telephone: +61 3 9282 5832
Facsimile: +61 3 9282 5701

TOP
Last updated: 26 May 2006}}



Because there is a real prospect of a direct swap of Bushmasters for Dutch
PzH-2000s, the in-service date could be much earlier than 2011 for the SP component of Land 17.
I think the year of decision is 2007/2008 but again, for the SP part, this could be first half of 2007!

[lobbie111]

I believe the steyr is a great weapon however times are changing and so are modern weapons currently Most countries are in the process of replacing their standard infantry weapons. Although the steyr is a great weapon it is known to experience hydralocking but what replacement are there:

HK G36
HK 416
FN F2000
SCAR

Any others..?

[Tasman]

Originally Posted by lobbie111

I believe the steyr is a great weapon however times are changing and so are modern weapons currently Most countries are in the process of replacing their standard infantry weapons. Although the steyr is a great weapon it is known to experience hydralocking but what replacement are there:

HK G36
HK 416
FN F2000
SCAR

Any others..?

What is hydralocking?

I've noticed from photos in the Australian Government Department of Defence website that Oz special forces don't seem to use the steyr. Is there a reason for this?

Cheers

[lobbie111]

Hydralocking is when the gun is imersed in water and once it is fired the gun might lock up or jam

Australia uses a modified version of the styr for australian conditions

[lobbie111]

Ahh this is because of the hydralocking but the special forces do use the steyr on occasions

[old faithful]

I dont believe that the styer is a "great weapon",it is a good one, and certainly better than the M4. However, there are better alternatives out there. The Canaidian version of the M16A2 comes to mind. The scar reads well,particualy with the new ammo...but that would mean changing our minimi,s,and they are good!
The Styers suffer from a few reliabity problems includeing cook offs. I have witnessed this first hand. When the barrel is hot, a chamberd round may cook off resulting in an unwanted discharge. The safty mech has been a problem since this wpn was introduced. I have never seen UD,s in such numbers prior to the Styers induction. I strongley believe that a new safty catch,combined with the scrapping of the Arctic trigger gaurd(relaced with a normal trigger gaurd) would resolve this. No amount of training has reduced the incedence of UD,s to pre Styer days.I know of 1 case where the Arctic trigger gaurd resulted in a Unlawful /unintenional discharge that killed one of my mates, however,the investigation tried very hard to "burn" the safty officer present.

[lobbie111]

Yes the steyr has its ups and downs and I have used the steyr before but I think and option such as the HK G36 or the 416 would be great because they are German quality combined with HK's reliability and the 416 has the new high relibility magazine

Originally Posted by lobbie111

Yes the steyr has its ups and downs and I have used the steyr before but I think and option such as the HK G36 or the 416 would be great because they are German quality combined with HK's reliability and the 416 has the new high relibility magazine

ADF plans to introduce an upgraded "A3" version of the F-88A1 under Land 125. I doubt very much it'll disappear any time soon...

[lobbie111]

Ok thanks seems strange though, most other armed forces are upgrading there standard infantry weapons

Originally Posted by lobbie111

Ok thanks seems strange though, most other armed forces are upgrading there standard infantry weapons

And indeed this is what is happening to the Steyr. It's working parts are being "sorted" and it's safety catch is apparently being rectified (2 of the biggest issues with the weapon). It's ability to mount a variety of sighting systems, and "additional" weapons (40mm GLA, 12 guage shotgun etc) is being improved as well.

If they get it right, it'll be a very effective weapon indeed. It wasn't called "the gun that doesn't miss" by the Somalian's for nothing...

As to the "cook off" issue. I can say that in 6 years use, I never experience this. After my unit became "recon" we all did quite a bit of dismounted recon work (as recon scouts). I recall doing live fire "break contact" drills where we laid down enormous amounts of fire after being "contacted" by enemey formations.

Going through "double frontline" in a matter of minutes was a regular occurence. (For those who don't know, that's 360 rounds through an F-88A1 in minutes). I recall the weapons being awfully hot afterwards, but never had or saw a "cook off" from any F-88.

I'm not saying it never happens, but the weapon doesn't have a "reputation" for it in my experience.

As to the F-88 v M4 issue. The fact that the M4 is "gucci" wouldn't have any bearing on it being adopted by the specwarries would it? How many "water ops" could they have conducted in Afghanistan afterall???

Cheers.

[oskarm]

A4? Do you have more info about it? At Steyr's side there are only A3 versions http://www.steyr-mannlicher.com/index.php?id=657

Originally Posted by oskarm

A4? Do you have more info about it? At Steyr's side there are only A3 versions http://www.steyr-mannlicher.com/index.php?id=657

I do apologise, the "enhanced" F-88 will also be of an "A3" standard. A brochure on this weapon can be viewed at this page here:

http://www.adi-limited.com/default.asp?page=148

[rickshaw]

Originally Posted by lobbie111

Ahh this is because of the hydralocking but the special forces do use the steyr on occasions

The main reason why the "special forces" don't use the Steyr is because of all the gadgets you can't hang off it.

Originally Posted by rickshaw

The main reason why the "special forces" don't use the Steyr is because of all the gadgets you can't hang off it.

Check out that ADI A3 variant. Has all the "Piccatinny" rails you could ever want...