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Australian Army Discussions and Updates

This is a discussion on Australian Army Discussions and Updates within the Army & Security Forces forum, part of the Global Defense & Military category; Originally Posted by Aussie Digger Nope. None of our brigades equate to a "standard" brigade. Whatever that may be exactly. ...


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Old October 24th, 2007   #661
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Nope. None of our brigades equate to a "standard" brigade. Whatever that may be exactly. Our guiding philosophy is an "army of two's" at present...

1 Brigade is a mechanised brigade comprised of 2x mechanised battalions (5RAR and 7RAR), that are equipped with their own M113 FOV's. Other arms corps units attached to the Brigade include 1 Armoured Regiment, equipped with Abrams tanks, 2nd Cavalry Regiment equipped with ASLAV recon vehicles (NOT transport assets) and 8/12 Medium Regiment equipped with M198 155mm guns, at present.

3 Brigade is comprised of 1RAR, 2RAR and 3RAR, all of which are light infantry battalions, without any inherent mobility, beyond the Mark 1 boot. Also attached to 3 Brigade is the 4 Field Regiment, currently equipped with L118/9 105mm guns and B Squadron 3/4 Cavalry Regiment , equipped with Bushmaster IMV's. Despite being called a Cavalry Regiment, B Sqn 3/4 Cav is a transport unit, hence it operates the Bushmaster IMV. It does not have a dedicated recon role, unlike 2 Cav Regiment and 2/14 Light Horse Regiment.

7 Brigade is a motorised brigade currently comprising 6RAR, 25/49 RQR and 9 RQR. All of these are light infantry battalions at present, with 6RAR becoming a motorised infantry battalion when fully equipped with it's own integral Bushmaster IMV vehicles. My understanding is it has currently been stripped of most of it's complement of Bushmasters to outfit deployed forces, however the additional ordered Bushmasters will backfill 6RAR and other units...

In future 8/9RAR will be raised as a motorised infantry battalion and equipped with it's own integral Bushmaster IMV vehicles. 6RAR and 8/9RAR will then comprise the battalions for 7 Brigade, whilst 9RQR and 25/49 RQR will be transferred to a different Brigade, (13th Brigade perhaps?) but will no doubt remain light infantry battalions, in their current locations (ie: South East Queensland).

Also attached to 7 Brigade is 1 Field Regiment, equipped with M198 155mm guns and L118/119 105mm guns and the 2/14 Light Horse (Queensland Mounted Infantry) (Reconnaissance) Regiment. This unit is basically a duplicate of 2nd Cavalry Regiment, in terms of structure and role. It is a dedicated recon regiment like 2nd Cavalry Regt and no longer has a transport role.

4RAR is also counted as a member of Australia's regular infantry battalions, which gives us our total of 8x regular infantry battalions, our largest regular force since Vietnam, incidentally.

This is a bit misleading to my eye however, as 4RAR has been developed into a dedicated special operations unit and no longer even slightly resembles an infantry battalion in structure, role, equipment or even "ethos" in my opinion.

It should be transferred from the Royal Australian Regiment and be renamed as a permanent Commando Regiment in my opinion...

AD,

Thanks for that. I may have known these details but others may not - good quick reference quide (I had to write a breifing on what you just wrote above for my dad, who has just taken up a job with the AMPHIB FEG as a LtCmdr, to bring him upt to speed after 3 1/2 years in Navy's opsdiv). I may have been somewhat unclear about my questionv- let me rephrase. I wasn't attempting to suggest that there was a standard brigade type (indeed these listed above are Mech, Light and Motorised respectively - not sure where the "twos" element is.....Battlegroups?), but was noting that army seems to have attached, in its organisation charts (hell, even the wiki version), something from the AAC in each brigade in addition to three fighting formations (except 1st bde which has two, 1st armoured and 2nd cav - along with 5 & 7 RAR). Even if b Squad. 3/4 Cav is a small contingent, it is still there. Given that 7th brigade will have 6, 8/9 RAR and 2/14th QMI, it seems to be one formation short (another Mot. Battalion?). Is this the case?

Brett.
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Old October 24th, 2007   #662
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AD,

Thanks for that (I may have known these details but others may not - good quick reference quide ). I may have been somewhat unclear about my questionv- let me rephrase. I wasn't attempting to suggest that there was a standard brigade type (indeed these listed above are Mech, Light and Motorised respectively - not sure where the "twos" element is.....Battlegroups?), but was noting that army seems to have attached, in its organisation charts (hell, even the wiki version), something from the AAC in each brigade in addition to three fighting formations (except 1st bde which has two - 1st armoured and 2nd cav). Even if b Squad. 3/4 Cav is a small contingent, it is still there. Given that 7th brigade will have 6, 8/9 RAR and 2/14th QMI, it seems to be one formation short. Is this the case?

Brett.
Not really and I'm not really sure what that extra formation would be. Another armoured Regiment perhaps?

7 Brigade is not intended to deploy as a brigade or taskforce level entity.

Rather it will provide unit and sub-unit high readiness formations available for immediate deployment or rotational deployments. 1 Brigade or 3 Brigade or a combination of both (like Timor), would deploy sufficient units to comprise a "brigade" under the command of the DJFHQ, if a brigade sized formation was required for an operation.

At most, I expect 7 Brigade will provide battalion sized "battle groups" in combination with other units, 2/14LHR, 1 Field Arty, combat engineers etc.

As such, I don't see the need for 7 Brigade to have another "formation" added to it, though of course another regular battalion would be nice...

BTW, I think you are referring to RAAC (Royal Australian Armoured Corps) as opposed to AAC (Army Aviation Corps) aren't you?

The Army of "two's" I referred to earlier is Army's philosophy for the maintenance of it's major land force units and sub-units: 2x Cavalry Regiments, 2x Mechanised infantry battalions, 2x armed recon helo squadrons, 2x tank squadrons, 2x motorised infantry battalions, etc, etc.

It is a step in the right direction from the years of "ones" where capabilities, especially support capabilities were not duplicated throughout Army. In years to come our ability to deploy and more importantly sustain deployed forces should grow exponentially as a result of these decisions.

Interestingly enough, the Chief of Army's Force 2025 plan has a guiding philosophy of Army becoming an Army of "three's"...
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Old October 24th, 2007   #663
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Not really and I'm not really sure what that extra formation would be. Another armoured Regiment perhaps?

7 Brigade is not intended to deploy as a brigade or taskforce level entity.

Rather it will provide unit and sub-unit high readiness formations available for immediate deployment or rotational deployments. 1 Brigade or 3 Brigade or a combination of both (like Timor), would deploy sufficient units to comprise a "brigade" under the command of the DJFHQ, if a brigade sized formation was required for an operation.

At most, I expect 7 Brigade will provide battalion sized "battle groups" in combination with other units, 2/14LHR, 1 Field Arty, combat engineers etc.

As such, I don't see the need for 7 Brigade to have another "formation" added to it, though of course another regular battalion would be nice...

BTW, I think you are referring to RAAC (Royal Australian Armoured Corps) as opposed to AAC (Army Aviation Corps) aren't you?

The Army of "two's" I referred to earlier is Army's philosophy for the maintenance of it's major land force units and sub-units: 2x Cavalry Regiments, 2x Mechanised infantry battalions, 2x armed recon helo squadrons, 2x tank squadrons, 2x motorised infantry battalions, etc, etc.

It is a step in the right direction from the years of "ones" where capabilities, especially support capabilities were not duplicated throughout Army. In years to come our ability to deploy and more importantly sustain deployed forces should grow exponentially as a result of these decisions.

Interestingly enough, the Chief of Army's Force 2025 plan has a guiding philosophy of Army becoming an Army of "three's"...

Well, at least we'll be able to rotate them........ (Also shouldn't that really be two armoured regiments, to do it properly? its only fair if there are two Mech battalions)

Yes, AAC was my attempt to refernce the RAAC. I did know that but my Navy way of thinking doesn't allow me to let the army have "Royal"

In relation to the 7th brigade question, thanks. Although my thinking allows me to claim as a necessity an extra Battalion/Regiment.........the more the better ( Whether or not that is actually the case)

Brett.
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Old October 24th, 2007   #664
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Well, at least we'll be able to rotate them........ (Also shouldn't that really be two armoured regiments, to do it properly? its only fair if there are two Mech battalions)
"Standard" battle group size for the Army's mechanised battle groups is to match a mechanised infantry battalion to a tank squadron, an artillery battery and a Cav Sqn, plus supporting elements. As there are only 2 mechanised battalions...

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Yes, AAC was my attempt to refernce the RAAC. I did know that but my Navy way of thinking doesn't allow me to let the army have "Royal"

In relation to the 7th brigade question, thanks. Although my thinking allows me to claim as a necessity an extra Battalion/Regiment.........the more the better ( Whether or not that is actually the case)

Brett.
Agreed. More reg inf battalions ARE needed, but so is everything else...
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Old October 24th, 2007   #665
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Interestingly enough, the Chief of Army's Force 2025 plan has a guiding philosophy of Army becoming an Army of "three's"...
Let's hope that once the 'army of twos' has been achieved our government will have the political will to support an expansion to an 'army of threes.' In contrast to previous elections in the last forty years, I've been pleased to hear politicians from both major parties talking up the need for a larger Australian army in the early stages of the current campaign.

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Old October 24th, 2007   #666
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Mod edit:

Perhaps you missed all that red text I entered earlier. Give the politics a rest or your posts WILL be deleted.

AD

Last edited by Aussie Digger; October 25th, 2007 at 07:07 AM.
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Old October 25th, 2007   #667
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From Aussie Digger :-
"In future 8/9RAR will be raised as a motorised infantry battalion and equipped with it's own integral Bushmaster IMV vehicles. 6RAR and 8/9RAR will then comprise the battalions for 7 Brigade, whilst 9RQR and 25/49 RQR will be transferred to a different Brigade, (13th Brigade perhaps?) but will no doubt remain light infantry battalions, in their current locations (ie: South East Queensland). "
It will not be the 13th Brigade, thats the West Australian Brigade of the 16th Battalion and 11/28 Battalion.

Cheers

Last edited by Aussie Digger; October 25th, 2007 at 07:07 AM.
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Old October 25th, 2007   #668
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It will not be the 13th Brigade, thats the West Australian Brigade of the 16th Battalion and 11/28 Battalion.

Cheers
Hmm. Fair enough, perhaps it's 11 Brigade then. In any case, the reserve Brigade based primarily in Far Northern Queensland is the Brigade I was referring to...

Regards

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Old October 25th, 2007   #669
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BTW 1 Armored has 3 Abrams Tank Squadrons
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Old October 25th, 2007   #670
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Hmm. Fair enough, perhaps it's 11 Brigade then. In any case, the reserve Brigade based primarily in Far Northern Queensland is the Brigade I was referring to...
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Regards

AD

I wonder if the Army will bring back the Regular 6th Brigade for the 6th and 8/9th battalions.
Go back to the way it was in the 1990's - 6th Brigade being regulars and the 7th Brigade being the South East Qld reserve Brigade.
Rename the 2/14 Light Horse Regiment to the 3rd Cav Regt so that the 2/14 Light Horse Regiment can return to the reserve Brigade.

Cheers
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Old October 25th, 2007   #671
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Tragic News

An Australian SAS trooper was killed yesterday from direct hostile fire the believed first since Vietnam. The SMH article can be read here.
Prayers and Sympathy with the family.

Afghanistan is really heating up for Australian soldiers, I guess we have been 'lucky' until the last few weeks.
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Old October 25th, 2007   #672
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Sergeant Matthew Locke has been named as the SAS Trooper killed.

My thoughts are with his Family amd Mates.............

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Old October 25th, 2007   #673
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LWF.

Apparently he was awarded a Medal for Gallantry last year on his first tour, this was his second.....
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Old October 25th, 2007   #674
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I share the thoughts expressed by Robsta83, BUG and Gf.

Unfortunately I believe more casualties are highly likely owing to both an apparent increase in the intensity of Taliban operations in the area and the fact that Australian Special Forces appear to be actively seeking them out.

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Old October 25th, 2007   #675
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My deepest condolances to his family and mates. Does anyone know how old he was or if he had any kids? I agree with tassie, we have been lucky so far. Its a real war over there. I remember reading somone state how lucky we've been over the last 12 months not to have annother combat death, apparantly SASR & 4RAR have had alot of realy close calls and troopers bieng wounded under heavy fire, and it was just a matter of time.

Its humbleing to think of the sacrifice he made. Lest we forget.
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