Australian Army Discussions and Updates

[Jezza]

Thats what i meant.
French ones.
The french deployed them on July 26.
The 3 helos are the HAP variant, 2023,2024,2025.

[StevoJH]

Originally Posted by the road runner

Aww landrover,put me down for 2.

On a side note i would like to ask the forum members who are in the know,what will Australia be doing with its Leopard 1 Tanks?

Are we in talks with anyone to purchase our Leos?
Or would these tanks be a usefull asset for engineers or other units in the ADF?

Regards.

I thought they were all being gifted to museum's and RSL clubs etc?

[swerve]

Originally Posted by StevoJH

I thought they were all being gifted to museum's and RSL clubs etc?

I'm just trying to imagine a Leopard at Chatswood RSL, where I often used to drink after work . . .

I see it's been tarted up a lot in the decade since then. I can't see the pokies in those pictures.

[StevoJH]

Originally Posted by swerve

I'm just trying to imagine a Leopard at Chatswood RSL, where I often used to drink after work . . .

I see it's been tarted up a lot in the decade since then. I can't see the pokies in those pictures.

you lived in Australia? You learn something new everyday.

Coffs Harbour Ex-services has a world war 2 towed artillery piece on the corner next to the bowling green. Apparrently have an SLR in a display cabinet as well (I didn't see it when I was there last). There is a Huey on a pole 20 minutes up the road from Coffs (Woolgoogla RSL).

There's a deactivated 40mm bofors next to the local naval cadets building as well (i think its a 40mm bofors anyway).

I'm in Armidale at the moment though (finish my degree in 19 days).

[swerve]

Originally Posted by StevoJH

you lived in Australia? You learn something new everyday.....

Secondment to Sydney by my then employer, to help out its Australian subsidiary for a few months. Enjoyed it.

[dragonfire]

Quick question - I saw the pic of an armed Australian BlackHawk helo, how many such helos are in service with the Autralian Army ? and will they be replaced armed versions of the NH 90

[PeterM]

Originally Posted by dragonfire

Quick question - I saw the pic of an armed Australian BlackHawk helo, how many such helos are in service with the Autralian Army ? and will they be replaced armed versions of the NH 90

I believe it is 34 Black Hawks (2 have been lost out of the original 36)

Phase 4 of AIR9000 is in progress (replacement the Black Hawk with the MRH-90)

also Phase 2 of AIR9000 is in progress Phase 2 (acquisition of Additional Troop-Lift Helicopters (MRH-90))

I believe the total number will eventually be 46 MRH-90. 40 for the Army and 6 for the RAN (replacing Sea King)

As far as armament, I imagine it would be similar to the Blackhawk 9perhaps someone can clarify)

[Aussie Digger]

Originally Posted by dragonfire

Quick question - I saw the pic of an armed Australian BlackHawk helo, how many such helos are in service with the Autralian Army ? and will they be replaced armed versions of the NH 90

The only armament Australian Blackhawk helicopters carry is a 7.62mm MAG-58 general purpose machine gun that is attached to a flexible mount (a "door gunner").

They sometimes carry a sniper team for a light fire support role (light fire team) as was done in Timor, but the Blackhawks in Australia do not have forward facing armament such as missiles, rockets, cannon etc.

The MRH-90's we are purchasing will also have a door gunner capability and will be able to have a light fire team capability (sniper, grenade launcher etc) but will not have fixed forward facing armaments.

Australia has the Tiger helicopter which has that sort of armament.

There are (IIRC) 34x Blackhawks in-service with the Australian Army, down from an original fleet of 39.

Australia is purchasing 40x MRH-90 helicopters for Army, 6x MRH-90 helos for Navy and 22x Tiger armed helos for Army.

Cheers.

[StevoJH]

Originally Posted by Aussie Digger

The only armament Australian Blackhawk helicopters carry is a 7.62mm MAG-58 general purpose machine gun that is attached to a flexible mount (a "door gunner").

They sometimes carry a sniper team for a light fire support role (light fire team) as was done in Timor, but the Blackhawks in Australia do not have forward facing armament such as missiles, rockets, cannon etc.

The MRH-90's we are purchasing will also have a door gunner capability and will be able to have a light fire team capability (sniper, grenade launcher etc) but will not have fixed forward facing armaments.

Australia has the Tiger helicopter which has that sort of armament.

There are (IIRC) 34x Blackhawks in-service with the Australian Army, down from an original fleet of 39.

Australia is purchasing 40x MRH-90 helicopters for Army, 6x MRH-90 helos for Navy and 22x Tiger armed helos for Army.

Cheers.

And now my turn to add a question, with the retirement of the last UH-1's a while back, after the introduction of the MRH-90, will the ADF as a whole, have more or less lift then it did previously?

Depending on cost, would it be worthwhile purchasing the UH-1Y or another smaller helicopter as a Light Utility Helicopter?

[battlensign]

Originally Posted by StevoJH

And now my turn to add a question, with the retirement of the last UH-1's a while back, after the introduction of the MRH-90, will the ADF as a whole, have more or less lift then it did previously?

Depending on cost, would it be worthwhile purchasing the UH-1Y or another smaller helicopter as a Light Utility Helicopter?

I would say that depends on the RAN ASW Helo selection.

In theory the total ADF lift will be around 920 with 46 MRH90s. Whether this is more or less than the former army capability also depends on when we are taking the assessment point from. Some sources suggest that the airforce transfered ~60 UH-1s to Army Aviation but then you have the averages of numbers servicable and the numbers converted to gunships and the consequent trooplift weight limitations as wekk as losses over time. A conservative estimate would be 36 in addition to the 34 Blackhawks. So taking 70 aircraft with 14 person capacities = 980. Obviously that is merely a total platform in inventory assessment and does not factor serviceability issues. Technically you would need to designate a year to accurately factor the CH-47s. Weren't there 12 initially? There will be 7 CH-47Fs. I'd say that it, without factoring the RAN, would be getting close (920+40ish v 980).

Needless to say, the acquisition of 24 NFH would significantly increase the total ADF lift available as there is, as had been discussed on the RAN thread, the capability to carry a boarding teams as well as ASW and ASuW equipment. There could be, in extremis, temporary conversions to lift helos in support of army landings from LHDs.

Not sure if any of that helps....

Brett.

[the road runner]

Originally Posted by dragonfire

Quick question - I saw the pic of an armed Australian BlackHawk helo, how many such helos are in service with the Autralian Army ? and will they be replaced armed versions of the NH 90

Could this be the mock up version from Sikorsky.It had hellfires/rocket pods on the stub wings,door gunners ect...similar to below pic??

The S-70A Black Hawk helicopter can be armed with a variety of missiles

[Aussie Digger]

Originally Posted by StevoJH

And now my turn to add a question, with the retirement of the last UH-1's a while back, after the introduction of the MRH-90, will the ADF as a whole, have more or less lift then it did previously?

Depending on cost, would it be worthwhile purchasing the UH-1Y or another smaller helicopter as a Light Utility Helicopter?

Depends on your POV. Iroquois was un-deployable to any sort of modern conflict and even Blackhawk has significant limitations thanks to BAE's failure to adequately develop a modern EWSP system.

MRH-90, OTOH will have excellent ballistic and EW protection capability from the time it is introduced to service and has much more lift capacity than the Blackhawk or the Iroquois individually.

So from an operational utility role, there is absolutely no question as to whether ADF has more lift or not currently.

From a non-threatening domestic POV, Army probably had more lift with Iroquois, Blackhawk, Kiowa and Squirrel than is the case now, but what does that matter? For non-threatening domestic roles, civilian helo resources can be called upon...

I am all for an LUH helo of the same type as the new training (HATS) helo type. I think there is a great need for a smaller, lighter helo in certain roles than the MRH-90 or Chinook.

[Jezza]

YouTube - French Army Tiger Attack Helicopter in...

got some footage

[Marc 1]

Brett, good luck getting 14 into a huey let alone off the deck with that number on board. A blackhawk would probably have difficulty with that number on a hot day.

[Aussie Digger]

Originally Posted by battlensign

I would say that depends on the RAN ASW Helo selection.

In theory the total ADF lift will be around 920 with 46 MRH90s. Whether this is more or less than the former army capability also depends on when we are taking the assessment point from. Some sources suggest that the airforce transfered ~60 UH-1s to Army Aviation but then you have the averages of numbers servicable and the numbers converted to gunships and the consequent trooplift weight limitations as wekk as losses over time. A conservative estimate would be 36 in addition to the 34 Blackhawks. So taking 70 aircraft with 14 person capacities = 980. Obviously that is merely a total platform in inventory assessment and does not factor serviceability issues. Technically you would need to designate a year to accurately factor the CH-47s. Weren't there 12 initially? There will be 7 CH-47Fs. I'd say that it, without factoring the RAN, would be getting close (920+40ish v 980).

Needless to say, the acquisition of 24 NFH would significantly increase the total ADF lift available as there is, as had been discussed on the RAN thread, the capability to carry a boarding teams as well as ASW and ASuW equipment. There could be, in extremis, temporary conversions to lift helos in support of army landings from LHDs.

Not sure if any of that helps....

Brett.

The Army's Hueys only had seating for 7 and at the time of their retirement there were only 25x in-service...

In "extremis" situations, more could be taken on the floor of the aircraft, but depending on the configuration it may not have been possible to close the doors and hence it had to be an EXTREME situation to lift people in that state and very sedate non-tactical flying conducted...

14 would be a stretch for a Huey, without people sitting on other's laps and in patrol heavy state (packs, webbing, personal armour, kevlar helmets etc) it is unlikely to be room.

A Blackhawk could and an MRH-90 can seat 20...