To all m1abrams tank crewman (ADF) past and present

[datguy]

Hi all, I've applied for a position as a tank crewman (MBT) for the ADF(army) awhile ago and should i maintain my BMI for 6months will be enlisted shorty thereafter...(hopefully) my ultimate goal is to make gunner or commander.

I just wanted to ask if anyone out there who has worked IN or even around the m1a1 abrams MBT what i might expect when i commence and complete IET.
with regards to...

-what are helpfull areas of study eg, maths, physics, machanics that i could practice before i start training that would give me an edge.

-what i could expect from training (IET) goods, bads, what not to say, what not to do etc...

-any helpful tips for each phase of training (drivers and loaders i think they were)

-what to expect after completion of IET eg, lifestyle, daily routine and what i could do to give me a bigger chance to make gunner.

-and ofcourse anything (i mean ANYTHING) else anyone could share in regards to the position.

Your knowledge and more importantly your experiences would be greatly appreciated by this tank crewman wannabe...THANKYOU in advance!

[Waylander]

First I have never been in an Abrams (wait for Eckherl ) but maybe I can also say something.

There shouldn't be a need to study anything in advance but if you want to get familiar with the controls and procedures I highly recommend the steel beasts tank sim.
This is maybe the most accurate simulation of tank combat you will get on the open market (as it is also used by many armies for training).

Having some basic knowledge about atomotive mechanics and phsysics (ballistics) can also be helpfull.
Maintenance on the tank can be very challenging so you shouldn't be a couch potato but if you have a normal BMI and strength everything should be ok (The army is going to train you anyway during basic training).

Driving a modern MBT is relatively easy. What takes time and lots of training is to drive it as smoothly as possible even through heavy terrain without throwing a track while trying to use as much cover as possible. I don't think one can train for this without actually sitting in a heavy, powerfull tracked vehicle. But having some knowledge about how difficult and tricky terrain can get should also be helpfull.

As a commander you biggest challenge will be the multi-tasking. Searching for targets, navigating the tank, reading the map, using two radio channels, staying in formation and trying to evaluate the advantages and disadvantages of the terrain all at the same time is nearly too much for one person.

Finally I want to say (and I think I said it before) that I am glad to finally see a guy who wants to join the Armoured Corps instead of some freaky specwarrior, fighter pilot or DDG captain.

PANZER HURRA

[eckherl]

I would concur with everything that Waylander wrote but would like to emphasize that it is important for upper body strength, sliding out and loading one M831 Heat round in a tank that is moving cross country will make you understand why. Also practice land navigation now if you have any free time, with the terrian features in your neck of the woods so to speak it would be good practice to learn terrian features and land contours, learning to navigate by the stars at night is a challenge along with learning to navigate in desert conditions if you are not set up with GPS. And one important factor to learn about the M1 series tanks if you become a driver, it can take some getting used to the brake pedal and to save yourself from getting boots to the back of the head learn to use them gingerly. Be careful and respect the speed of the turret and gun, it moves at a alarming rate, If you do not it can cost you a limb or even possibly your life. As Waylander stated the ADF will put you trough a good sound training course that will teach you to be a iron chariot warrior, remember to listen and learn. Good luck and welcome to the armor brotherhood that is shared world wide.

PS Waylander - Hmm I have heard nothing but good things about this computer game called Steel Beasts, maybe it is time to go out for a purchase.

[Waylander]

I have to admit that we never trained to navigate by using stars apart from searching the polar star which should be north.
But in the end we don't train for desert environments that much...
I expect in Australia desert navigation is also important.

I can also just emphasize on how important safety regulations are when your work with a tank. This beast is heavy, fast and has lots of moving parts. You can loose more than "just" some fingers if you are not carefull.

And as with every part of the military the team is the game winner. Only a tank crew which really works together and pushes each other is going to win a fight.
That's another thing which is good when being on a tank. You are getting much more familiar even with your superiors (aka tank commander) when you are part of a tank crew. Living and fighting together in such a restricted space is going to melt you together.

@Eckherl
I am going to purchase my copy of SB Pro PE hopefully soon. With ca. 125$ it is not really cheap but my old version is broken.
Defenitely the best tank sim out there.

Originally Posted by datguy

Hi all, I've applied for a position as a tank crewman (MBT) for the ADF(army) awhile ago and should i maintain my BMI for 6months will be enlisted shorty thereafter...(hopefully) my ultimate goal is to make gunner or commander.

I just wanted to ask if anyone out there who has worked IN or even around the m1a1 abrams MBT what i might expect when i commence and complete IET.
with regards to...

-what are helpfull areas of study eg, maths, physics, machanics that i could practice before i start training that would give me an edge.

-what i could expect from training (IET) goods, bads, what not to say, what not to do etc...

-any helpful tips for each phase of training (drivers and loaders i think they were)

-what to expect after completion of IET eg, lifestyle, daily routine and what i could do to give me a bigger chance to make gunner.

-and ofcourse anything (i mean ANYTHING) else anyone could share in regards to the position.

Your knowledge and more importantly your experiences would be greatly appreciated by this tank crewman wannabe...THANKYOU in advance!

Good onya mate. Up the RAAC (Royal Australian Armoured Corps).

You will do six weeks at Kapooka and then proceed to Puckapunyal where you'll do your AFV IET course.

I believe that is still 6 weeks, but I've been out of the loop for more than a while now and it may have changed.

You'll then be posted to 1 Armoured Regt in Darwin. You will be trained initially as a driver I believe and you will be further trained later as a loader and gunner, these being "higher" in the Tank scheme of things.

If you remain switched on and willing to learn, you shouldn't have any problems. Keep your fitness levels up and make sure you can complete Army's BFA (Basic Fitness Assessment) BEFORE you get to Kapooka and this will ensure you are fit enough.

here are the required standards for the BFA from 2005:

Male
under 21 - 50 pushups, 75 situps, 10:48 for the 2.4km run
21-25 - 40 pushups, 70 situps, 11:18 for the 2.4km run
26-30 - 35 pushups, 65 situps, 11.48 for the 2.4km run
31-35 - 30 pushups, 57 situps, 12.18 for the 2.4km run
36-40 - 25 pushups, 50 situps, 12.42 for the 2.4km run
41-45 - 20 pushups, 30 situps, 13.12 for the 2.4km run
46-50 - 10 pushups, 20 situps, 13.48 for the 2.4km run
51+ - 6 pushups, 15 situps, 14.30 for the 2.4km run

Under 21's up to and including 31-35's have 42 mins to walk 5km if they are MEC 2 (instead of the run)
36-40 have 44 mins
41 years and older can opt to do the walk instead of run regardless of mec, and have 41-45yrs 44 mins and 46yrs+ 46 mins

Female
under 21 - 25 pushups, 75 situps, 12:27 for the 2.4km run
21-25 - 21 pushups, 70 situps, 13:30 for the 2.4km run
26-30 - 18 pushups, 65 situps, 14.18 for the 2.4km run
31-35 - 15 pushups, 57 situps, 15.12 for the 2.4km run
36-40 - 10 pushups, 50 situps, 16.06 for the 2.4km run
41-45 - 7 pushups, 30 situps, 16.54 for the 2.4km run
46-50 - 3 pushups, 20 situps, 17.42 for the 2.4km run
51+ - 3 pushups, 15 situps, 18.48 for the 2.4km run

U21 - 40 - mec 2 can walk 5km in 43 mins
41-45 can opt to walk 5km in 45 mins
46+ can opt to walk 5km in 47

And here is an audio cadence so you can practice your situps as Army requires you to do them.

http://www.defence.gov.au/army/hq8bd...Situp_Test.wma

The only difference in those times and standards is that the under 21 times have been dropped back to 21-25.

[kato]

Originally Posted by Aussie Digger

Under 21's up to and including 31-35's have 42 mins to walk 5km if they are MEC 2 (instead of the run)

... is that a combat march? with like 40 pounds of weight? or like cross-country somewhere out in the desert?

Because otherwise that's a rather slow walk.

[datguy]

wow thanks everyone for sharing and your comments.
you've all been very helpful,
ive always been a good boy eg. sit down-shut up-listen so no problems there.
ive also made sure my fitness goes way above that of the PFA for the army, as ive been told its a good start but nowhere near what kapooka demands of a recruit.
and thankyou for suggesting map/terrain familiarisation-navigation Etc...which is an area im only intermidiate in but will be putting my brain into immediatly,
also I've ordered a copy of steal beasts PE that should be fun*...i mean educational
thankyou again everyone for your help
and if you have anymore comments about puckapunyal or the 1st armoured reg. please go on the bigger the picture i can get the more ill look forward to it
and again thankyou much appreciated

Originally Posted by kato

... is that a combat march? with like 40 pounds of weight? or like cross-country somewhere out in the desert?

Because otherwise that's a rather slow walk.

Nope is a slow walk for those injured or otherwise unable to complete a 2.4k run...

Just cause one is in the Army doesn't mean one is fit...

I for instance have been out of Army since 2000 and am now in the 31-35 bracket, but I can still manage times suitable for the Under 21 column... It ain't that hard but does require a bit of regular training.

Personally I don't see ANY reason why a reasonably fit male in their 20's or 30's couldn't easily meet these standards and more to the point, regs who do PT every day should breeze it in...

[Waylander]

Is gunner/loader one slot or is it divided into two in the Aussie army?

In the Bundeswehr it is one slot so that every loader is also a qualified gunner (sometimes loaders are qualified drivers instead of gunners).
So loader is normally not a standalone qualification and loaders get another additional qualification.

[eckherl]

Originally Posted by Waylander

Is gunner/loader one slot or is it divided into two in the Aussie army?

In the Bundeswehr it is one slot so that every loader is also a qualified gunner (sometimes loaders are qualified drivers instead of gunners).
So loader is normally not a standalone qualification and loaders get another additional qualification.

Normally in the U.S Army the loader position is the initial position for newbies then followed by the drivers position, gunners position then the cat bird seat.

[sgtgunn]

Congrats! I was an M1 crewman in the US Army in the 90's, serving in Korea and Germany. (I'm a infantryman in the National Guard (i.e. reserves) now). I'm not sure how things work in the Australian Army, but in the US we were given basic training in driving, loading and gunning while attending our advanced individual training at the US Army Armor School @ FT Knox. The greatest emphasis was on driving, and we logged many, many hours in driving simulators (which were pretty high tech for the time - they looked just like those aircraft simulators with all the hydraulics and such) before heading out to the driving courses. we also spent time in gunnery (UCOFT) and maneuver simulators (SIMNET) as well as firing a "mini" gunnery course where we all took turns driving, loading and gunning. When you reach your unit you normally start off as a loader, then work up to driver, and eventually gunner. Gunner is officially an NCO slot, with most gunners having reached the rank of Corporal or Sergeant, though Specialist or even Private First Class gunners are not unheard of if NCOs are short. I've seen people start as drivers as well (I did, in fact) and often very good loaders or drivers are kept in those positions until they reach NCO rank and become gunners because TCs (Tank Commanders) are acutely aware how much a good driver or loader can effect the crews gunnery table scores. I spent almost 3 years as a gunner before spending a brief time as a TC before I left active duty, and I found gunning to be the most fun. It may sound cheesy - but if you can find a copy of the PC video game Steel Beasts on eBay or some such place, grab it. The graphics are nothing special, but the gameplay is awesome, and very accurately reflects the feel of M1 Gunnery (as much as possible without a simulator or the real thing). Even the sound effects of inside the turret and the fire commands are spot on (US fire commands, that is..)

Adrian a proud, former 19K20 C-DAT (Computerized - Dumb Ass Tanker)
"Death before Dismount!"

[JamieG.CAV]

Hey All.

I'm currently a reservist in 3/9th Light Horse (SAMR) and i want to go fulltime Army soon. However i am very unsure as to whether i want to do Crewman ASLAV or not... I want to do it purely to go overseas a couple times and because it seems like a really good job. However i am not a good swimmer so the Armoured Corps Swim Test scares me a lil as i nearly drowned in the Basic Swim Test at Kapooka lol!

Who here on this forum is actually a Crewman in the ASLAV or Bushmaster and how do i go about getting into being a crewman on the Bushmaster

[Waylander]

You have a special swimming test for your armored crews in Australia?
Because of the amphibious capability of the ASLAV?

[JamieG.CAV]

Yeh buddy we do. Where are you from? I was speaking to a former Crewman ASLAV and he said it isnt so important now as they have fitted the Lavs with Intrusion bars and caging to deflect RPG fire etc! So i hope they chillax the rules a lil bit and not worry if i struggle to pass the Swim Test ahaha

But yeh we "used" to use our lavs for amphibious ops or used to train for them. The guy i spoke to sunk one once bahaha. They retrieved it of course but you have lifejackets anyways inside the vehicle so it's not like you're going to drown!

[Waylander]

I'm from northern Germany.

Thanks for the infos.