This is a discussion on 415 BMP-3 and 35-50 BMP-3F for GREECE within the Army & Security Forces forum, part of the Global Defense & Military category; The Governmental National Defence Council (GNDC - KYSEA) decided among onters to procure 415 BMP-3 Russian infantry fighting vehicles and ...
The Governmental National Defence Council (GNDC - KYSEA) decided among onters to procure 415 BMP-3 Russian infantry fighting vehicles and additional 35-50 BMP-3F (the amphibious version)
The Governmental National Defence Council (GNDC - KYSEA) decided among onters to procure 415 BMP-3 Russian infantry fighting vehicles and additional 35-50 BMP-3F (the amphibious version)
Very interesting Petros - could you elaborate a little more on this purchase, was there a competition from other countries, what was the deciding factor into this purchase agreement. please give us the Greek perspective on this new agreement.
Not that long ago it looked like Greece was close to purchasing surplus Marders, maybe with a new turret, from Germany.
But after long time of maybe and maybe not the deal was cancelled.
While the BMP-3 is an interesting IFV I never felt comfortable with being dependent on Russia for spares if one is a NATO member.
On the other hand Greece has choosen Russian equipment before as well as the Greek part of Cyprus...
Is Greece going to get its own prodcution facilities?
And I never believed the protection levels claimed by some members here but we have a long thread about it somewhere in the depth of the froum.
The amphibious version is defenitely nice for Greece as there are very few competitors on the modern IFV market which come with amphibious capabilities.
Not that long ago it looked like Greece was close to purchasing surplus Marders, maybe with a new turret, from Germany.
But after long time of maybe and maybe not the deal was cancelled.
While the BMP-3 is an interesting IFV I never felt comfortable with being dependent on Russia for spares if one is a NATO member.
I suspect Greece choose Russia EXACTLY becouse Russia is not a NATO member to avoid pressure with Cyprus.
It seems that the decision was taken directly from the Prime Minister Costas Karamanlis for both political and operational reasons. Greece will take part in the production with about 25-30% and the budget allocated for the program is 1.7 billion euros.
Greece has a history of buying weapons from Russia and especially now that the good relations between the two countries are at their peek the deal was expected. Moreover Greek defence press has been extremely supportive of the BMP-3 choice as the most cost effective solution.
After all despite a lower protection level than other IFVs like Puma or CV90 the BMP-3 boost the heaviest armament and the lowest cost and also an amphibious capability that can give an extreme tactical advantage in the Aegean archipelagos and some Greek defence analysts claimed that with such a capability even a dynamic defence model between the islands is possible.
In general I would say that it was a very welcomed choice for the Greek public.
Correction the cost of the program is 1.2 billion euros. From what i have read though the total need of the greek army for IFVs was at about 500 + 50 amphibious for the marine core I wonder whether there will be an option for some additional in the deal. Does anyone know about that?
Good choice by the Greeks BMP 3 also serves with other western allies including Cyprus, South Korea, and Kuwait. Also, newly built BMP-3 are almost certainly superior to second hand Marders.
Not that long ago it looked like Greece was close to purchasing surplus Marders, maybe with a new turret, from Germany.
But after long time of maybe and maybe not the deal was cancelled.
While the BMP-3 is an interesting IFV I never felt comfortable with being dependent on Russia for spares if one is a NATO member.
On the other hand Greece has choosen Russian equipment before as well as the Greek part of Cyprus...
Is Greece going to get its own prodcution facilities?
And I never believed the protection levels claimed by some members here but we have a long thread about it somewhere in the depth of the froum.
The amphibious version is defenitely nice for Greece as there are very few competitors on the modern IFV market which come with amphibious capabilities.
What type of upgraded turret were they looking at possibly placing on the Marders, and does any body know what the show stopper was preventing them from purchasing them.
yes indeed it seems a much better deal than the upgraded used marder 1a5 that were under consideration even at 1.2 billion. The marder with the upgrades that were proposed was to cost 3.5million per IFV while the BMP costs average 2.9 million and although there are no official information yet on he equipment that it will have it is expected that it will include all the latest development like ERA western thermal sights and weapons control the greek Iniohos command system and the wisspnet radios.
What type of upgraded turret were they looking at possibly placing on the Marders, and does any body know what the show stopper was preventing them from purchasing them.
Most probably cost. While second-hand Marders are cheap, upgrading them is not. I suspect Greek recived new BMP-3 for same price...
This is the update that was proposed for the marder:
New E4 turret
The MARDER AIFV is equipped with a 2-manturret, which houses the vehicle's main armament: an MK 30-2 automatic cannon from Rheinmetall Waffe Munition GmbH. Of the various 30 mm x 173 automatic cannons on the market today, the MK 30-2 has the highest rate of fire (nominal 700 rounds per minute). Thus, unlike other 30 mm cannons, the MK 30-2 – in conjunction with contemporary fire control technology and turret systems – can be used in an air defence role against helicopters. The MK 30-2 meets the full range of modern performance and safety criteria. Unlike chain guns, the MK 30-2 has a built-in first round response capability due to the double feeder, and can be fired in emergency mode. With a maximum range of 3,000 metres, the MK 30-2 is extremely effective against land, air and sea targets.
Made by Rheinmetall Defence Electronics GmbH, the leader of the program in Greece, the SEOSS fire control system likewise plays an important part in the new E4 turret. SEOSS is a compact, state-of-the-art digital fire control system consisting of a stabilized panoramic sensor head with a thermal imaging sight, CCD camera and a laser rangefinder. SEOSS uses an independent line of sight inertially stabilized in two axes. The system features high-precision fire control computation that takes into account the type of ammunition, cant angles, the altitude of targets as well as environmental conditions, target movement and coincidence. SEOSS has been tested and approved by the Hellenic Army in the framework of the KENTAURUS vehicle.
The electro-optical sensor unit and the weapon stabilisation system are controlled by the fire control electronics, which calculate the superelevation and lead angle resulting from the ballistic parameters.
Equipped with the C3I command and control system INIOCHOS from Rheinmetall Defence Electronics, the MARDER will be fully capable of cooperating on the battlefield with the LEOPARD 2 Hellenic MBT. Key elements of this highly advanced C3I system are the tactical terminal, command computer, mission data terminal and driver's indication unit. INIOCHOS provides a continuous detailed display of tactical situations, commands, messages and alarms, which are transmitted quickly and without error. Digitized terrain maps are displayed on high-resolution colour screens.
Ammunition
The ammunition for the AIFV MARDER is also proposed by Rheinmetall DeTec AG. The APFSDS-T (Armour Piercing Fin Stabilized Discarding Sabot) belongs to a new generation of armour-piercing sub-calibre ammunition capable of defeating monobloc and spaced armour targets. Based on tried-and-tested Oerlikon Contraves sub-calibre technology, the APFSDS-T ammunition suffers from none of the problems associated with the conventional slipping rotating band design relating to the influence of barrel wear and adverse atmospheric conditions. APFSDS-T ammunition can be employed – together with FAPDS-T (frangible) ammunition – to provide the MARDER with a powerful self-defence capability against both ground and air-to-ground attacks.
Contact
Rheinmetall AG
Corporate Sector Defence
Press and Information
Oliver Hoffmann
Rheinmetall Platz 1
40476 Düsseldorf
Germany
Phone: +49 211 473-4748
Fax: +49 211 473-4157
Rheinmetall is also trying (tried?) to pitch this for the UK FRES IFV.
The Marder with E4 turret is nothing new; Kuka already tried that in the 90s as a potential upgrade path for the German Army ("M12 IFV"), before Rheinmetall swallowed Kuka. The offer for Greece was pretty much a M12, which was also a contender in the Swiss "IFV 2000" program.
Rheinmetall is also trying (tried?) to pitch this for the UK FRES IFV.
The Marder with E4 turret is nothing new; Kuka already tried that in the 90s as a potential upgrade path for the German Army ("M12 IFV"), before Rheinmetall swallowed Kuka. The offer for Greece was pretty much a M12, which was also a contender in the Swiss "IFV 2000" program.
