Russia wants French Helicopter Carriers...

[Blue Streak]

This rumour has had some weight for a while.

TheStar.com | Russia | Russia in talks to buy French helicopter carrier (http://www.thestar.com/news/world/article/698197)

Is the Russian ship building industry in such a bad state, that developments like the Kiev, Moskva and Ivan Rogov are so beyond its capability, that it has to turn external?

[Feanor]

The Mistral is a different class of ship from the Kiev-class. Those were heavy-cruisers with ASW roles. Second of all the development of a modern equivalent would take a lot of time. 5-10 years. If they are ordered abroad, 2-4 years is a realistic timeframe. Thirdly it's also about getting the technology transfer, so that after the intial purchase of 1-2 ships, another 3-4 would be built in Russia. And of course domestic shipbuilding is notorious for delays, and competency issues. The hope is that foreign competition will do them some good (as well as transfer of technology). I do hope the deal comes through after all, it would be a big boost to the VMF.

[KiwiRob]

If you are going to build some of these in a Russian yard then I believe that Admiralty would be the best bet, they are far and away the best large yard in Russia.

[Feanor]

Time will tell, but you're probably right. Sevmash isn't likely to land the order, as it's taken some major hits with the Gorshkov issue.

In terms of shipyard status in general iirc Zvezdochka is in good shape. But they mainly do subs.

[SkolZkiy]

Agree - SevMash is busy with other orders and by the way there other yards in our country. I think Admiralty amd Komsomolsk-on-Amur.

[gf0012-aust]

This has been incompletely reported.

The Russians also made it very clear that they are looking at open tender as they believe that there are similar offerings available from other countries - they made specific mention of The Netherlands and Spain

[KiwiRob]

Time will tell, but you're probably right. Sevmash isn't likely to land the order, as it's taken some major hits with the Gorshkov issue.

In terms of shipyard status in general iirc Zvezdochka is in good shape. But they mainly do subs.

Zvezdochka is mainly a repair facility for subs and a yard where they decomission old nuclear subs, they haven't really built anything except a few trawlers, I doubt they counld build a complicated vessel like a LHD.

I really think Admiralty it probably the best bet, they are a well run yard, they build efficiently and I believe have very little problems with corruption. It's a pity that the Ukraine is independant, some of the big yards on the Black Sea could easily build these vessels.

[Feanor]

This has been incompletely reported.

The Russians also made it very clear that they are looking at open tender as they believe that there are similar offerings available from other countries - they made specific mention of The Netherlands and Spain

I ran into articles that spun it both ways. But the ships that Netherlands and Spain can offer would be significantly smaller then the Mistral class. Which is why I'm not even sure how this will go. So far, at least in the press, the Mistral is the favorite.

EDIT: Zvyozdochka also builds new subs quite successfully. Iirc the Project 636 is built there.

[gf0012-aust]

I ran into articles that spun it both ways. But the ships that Netherlands and Spain can offer would be significantly smaller then the Mistral class. Which is why I'm not even sure how this will go. So far, at least in the press, the Mistral is the favorite.


The Spanish vessels are comparable in capability to the Mistral. Its not the size of the vessel, its the role of the vessel that counts.

the asset needs to be assessed against the functional requirement. that can be very very different based on what the needs actually are.

[swerve]

... But the ships that Netherlands and Spain can offer would be significantly smaller then the Mistral class. ...
Juan Carlos 1 is 30 metres longer, & a few thousand tons heavier, than Mistral. The Netherlands has no amphibious ships the size of Mistral in service, but they can build them. Johann de Witt is not greatly smaller than Mistral, & the builders have designs for larger Enforcer versions.

The planned Dutch JSS is a combined logistical & amphibious transport ship, & is about the size of JC1. A purely amphibious ship based on the same design should not be difficult to build.

[Feanor]

Points taken. I guess we'll have to wait and see if anything comes of it.

[Pat-fr-33]

It will be more a political decision than a purely technical question.
I really think it will be done because this ship is not very expensive (less than 200.000.000 euros) and mostly build using civilian standards, so there are not a lot of highly technical "secrets" and the russion navy will probably adapt some of there communication systems.
And if the russian navy want a first ship very quickly, they can buy the one that is actually in production for e delivery in one or two years only.

[Feanor]

ÀÐÌÑ-ÒÀÑÑ (http://arms-tass.su/?page=article&aid=76741&cid=25)

Aopparently negotiations are set to begin with France.

[tatra]

This rumour has had some weight for a while.

TheStar.com | Russia | Russia in talks to buy French helicopter carrier (http://www.thestar.com/news/world/article/698197)

Is the Russian ship building industry in such a bad state, that developments like the Kiev, Moskva and Ivan Rogov are so beyond its capability, that it has to turn external?

IIRC all Kievs and Moskva's were built at Nikolayev in the Ukraine, as were Kuz and Varyag.

[mrgeorgeallison]

The Russian Kommersant business daily confirmed on Tuesday the possibility of the deal, but said Russian military experts were skeptical about it.

"The Russian Navy lacks the means to finance even the production of corvettes and missile boats, let alone the purchase of large combat ships," the paper quoted Mikhail Barabanov, science editor of the Eksport Vooruzheny (Arms Export) journal, as saying.

Ruslan Pukhov, director of the Moscow-based Center for Analysis of Strategies and Technologies, said "although the practice of arms imports will become more common in Russia in the future, the Mistral deal is rather questionable from a military standpoint, as well as Russia's hopes for the transfer of advanced technologies from France."

Russia in talks on buying French warship | Navy News at DefenceTalk (http://www.defencetalk.com/russia-in-talks-on-buying-french-warship-20916/)