Current state of Russian Air Force?

[F-15 Eagle]

What is the current state of the Russian Air Force? Like how many fighters, bombers, transports and helicopters they have in active service. I wish I had an accurate source instead of Wikipedia.

[Duffy]

What is the current state of the Russian Air Force? Like how many fighters, bombers, transports and helicopters they have in active service. I wish I had an accurate source instead of Wikipedia.

I don't know how accurate the numbers are, or how many are combat ready but heres a link ( the numbers look a bit optimistic):rolleyes:

State of the Russian Air Force | Russian Arms, Military Technology, Analysis of Russia's Military Forces (http://warfare.ru/?lang=&catid=241&linkid=2180&linkname=State-of-the-Russian-Air-Force)

[GI-Gizmo]

COMBAT -
Su-35 11
Su-30 140
Su-27 380
MiG-29 448
MiG-31 300
Su-34 18
Su-24 416
Su-25 200
Tu-22 132
Tu-160 18
Tu-95 64

TRANSPORT -
IL-76 100
An-124 16
An-26 215
An-12 50
An-22 20
IL-86 4 [VIP]

SUPPORT -
IL-78 tanker 30
A-50 AWACS 24
MiG-25 Rec 70
Su-24 Rec 100
IL-80 ACP 8
Tu-214 ACP 3

HELO -
Mi-8 300+
Mi-26 35
Mi-24 228
Mi-28 60
Ka-50/52 42

[There are some types of aircraft not listed, including certain special duty, recon, transport,
light aircraft and trainers. Aircraft, including combat types, that are under development are
not listed either. Russian Naval Aviation inventory is not counted among this list and operates
an additional 500~ aircraft. This list is only an estimate based upon several online sources
and is not meant to be completely accurate] : )

[GI-Gizmo]

Also... Russian aircraft reliability and availability due to maintnance, corruption and
logistical problems keeps the actual number of planes ready to fly and fight at an
estimated 60% average availability rate. Aircraft numbers are counting all active
and reserve models, some may be upgraded to modern standards while other may
be older models still in service.

[Scorpion82]

@GI-Gizmo
not meant to be completely accurate

You can replace that with "way off from any reality".
The following link leads to a document in russian which is claimed to be a january 2009 status+2010 prospects of the RuAF.
zSHARE - RuAF orbat 2009-10.xls (http://www.zshare.net/download/637588383ce0ba35/)

It is said that this list was published by the russian MoD.

Here is something I suppose to be a translation of that document. It was translated into german by "Foxhound" over at airpower.at:
1. Komand WWS i PWO (Militärdistrikt Leningrad)

1. Brigada WKO, Hauptquartier Seweromorsk
6959. AB in Sawatija: 24 MiG-31B, 12 Su-27S, 4 Su-27UB
161. ZRP in Seweromorsk: S-300
583. ZRP in Olenogorsk: 2 S-300PM, 2 S-300PS
1488. ZRP in Selenogorsk: 4 S-300PS
1528. ZRP in Sewerodwinsk: 4 S-300PS
531. ZRP in Poljarnij: 5 S-300PM
1544. ZRP in Wladimirskij: 1 Buk, 2 S-300W
1489. ZRP in Baranowo: 2 S-300PS
1490. ZRP in Sablino: 4 S-300PS

2. Brigada WKO, Hauptquartier Tosno
6964. AB in Montshegorsk: 24 MiG-31BS, 24 Su-24M, 20 Su-24MR
6961. AB in Besowets: 36 Su-27, 6 Su-27UB
87. AB in Lewashowo: 2 Tu-134, 6 An-26, 5 An-12, 5 Mi-8
6992. AB in Priblowo: 12 Mi-24PN, 12 Mi-8
6960. AB in Alakurttij: 8 Mi-24, 8 Mi-8
922. AB in Pushkino: 9 Mi-8
42. ZRP in Waldaj: S-300PS
500. ZRP in Gostijnij: 4 S-300PM

3. Brigada WKO, Hauptquartier Kalinigrad
6967. AB in Tshkalowsk: 36 Su-27, 6 Su-27UB
6962. AB in Thernajakhowsk: 24 Su-24M

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

1. Komand WWS i PWO (Militärdistrikt Moskau)

5. Brigada WKO, Hauptquartier Petrowskoje
6968. AB in Khotilowo: 24 MiG-31B, 12 Su-27S
6963. AB in Khalino: 24 MiG-29SMT, 6 MiG-29UBT
7000. AB in Woronesh: 1 Su-34, 24 Su-24M, 4 An-30, 1 Mi-8
6996. AB in Wjasma mit 24 Mi-24 und 12 Mi-8
6965. AB in Kaluga mit 24 Mi-24 und 12 Mi-8
214. OWE in Kursk mit 30 Mi-24 und 14 Mi-8
253. OWE in Kostroma mit 28 Mi-24 und 17 Mi-8
606. Gw. ZRP in Elektrostal mit S-400
93. ZRP in Swenigorod mit S-300PM1
210. ZRP in Dmitrow mit S-300P
390. ZRP in Nowoje mit S-300PM1
226. OSAP in Kubinka mit 8 An-12, 8 An-24, 6 An-26, 13 An-30 und 44 Mi-8
5. ODRAO in Woronesh mit 16 An-30

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

4. Komand WWS i PWO (Militärdistrikt Nordkaukasus)

7. Brigada WKO, Hauptquartier Rostow-na-Donu
6972. AB in Krimskaja: 36 Su-27, 6 Su-27UB, 3 Mi-28N, 20 Mi-24, 16 Mi-8, 4 Ka-27
6969. AB in Millerowo: 36 MiG-29, 6 MiG-29UB
69__. AB in Morozowsk: 24 Su-24, 30 Su-24M
6971. AB in Budennowsk: 24 Su-25SM, 6 Su-25UB, 2 Mi-28N, 20 Mi-24, 16 Mi-8
6973. AB in Primorsko-Akhtarsk: 24 Su-25, 6 Su-25UB
6974. AB in Egorlik: 16 Mi-8, 10 Mi-26
6970. AB in Marinowka: 24 Su-24MR
1536. ZRP in Rostow-na-Donu: 3 S-300PM
1537. ZRP in Noworossijsk: 2 S-300PM
____. ERP in Wolgograd: S-300P
1721. ZRP in Sotshij: 2 Buk

Armenien
3624. AB in Erebuni: 16 MiG-29, 2 MiG-29UB

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

2. Komand WWS i PWO (Militärdistrikte Wolga-Ural und Sibirien)

8. Brigada WKO, Hauptquartier Kuibjschew
6977. AB in Bolshoje Sawino: 24 MiG-31
30. AB in Koltsowo: 4 Su-27S, 3 Tu-134, 8 An-26, 2 An-12, 5 Mi-8
6976. AB in Gissar: 4 Su-25, 1 Su-25UB, 4 Mi-24, 2 Mi-8
6975. AB in Bobrowka: 12 Mi-24, 16 Mi-8, 6 Mi-26
511. ZRP in Engels: 2 S-300PS
185. ZRP in Ekaterinburg: 2 S-300PS
568. ZRP in Samara: 3 S-300PS

9. Brigada WKO, Hauptquartier Nowosibirsk
6979. AB in Kansk: 24 MiG-31DZ
590. ZRP in Nowosibirsk: 3 S-300PS

10 Brigada WKO, Hauptquartier Tshita
6982. AB in Domna: 36 MiG-29, 6 MiG-29UB
6980. AB in Dshida: 24 Su-24M, 12 Su-24MR, 1 Mi-8
6981. AB in Step: 24 Su-25, 6 Su-25UB
6978. AB in Berdsk: 20 Mi-24 und 12 Mi-8
320. AB in Nertshinsk: 8 Mi-8
1534. ZRP in Angarsk: 3 S-300PS
____. ZRP in Dshida: S-300
1722. ZRP in Perwomanskij: 2 S-300W
388. ZRP in Atshinsk: 3 S-300PS
1723. ZRP in Dshida: 2 Buk

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

3. Komand WWS i PWO (Militärdistrikt Fernost)

14. Brigada WKO, Hauptquartier Jellisowo
6990. AB in Elizowo: 36 MiG-31B, 2 An-12, 2 An-26, 2 Mi-8
6984. AB in Ukrainka: 12 Mi-24, 12 Mi-8
317. OSAP in Elizowo: 8 Il-38, 12 Tu-142MR, 24 Ka-27, 25 Ka-29
589. ZRP in Nakhodka: 3 S-300PS

12. Brigada WKO, Hauptquartier Wladiwostok
6989. AB in Zentralnaja Uglewaja: 12 MiG-31B, 24 Su-27SM, 6 Su-27UB
1533. ZRP in Wladiwostok: 1 S-400, S-300PS

11. Brigada WKO, Hauptquartier Komsomolsk
6987. AB in Dzemgi: 2 Su-35, 24 Su-27SM, 6 Su-27UB
6988. AB in Khurba: 24 Su-24M2, 24 Su-24M
6985. AB in Wosshajewka: 24 Su-24M, 24 Su-24MR
6983. AB in Wosshajewka: 36 Su-25, 6 Su-25UB, 4 Ka-50, 12 Mi-24, 12 Mi-8
265. AB in Khabarowsk: 1 Tu-154, 1, Tu-134, 6 An-26, 1 An-24, 15 An-12
6986. AB in Garowka: 20 Mi-8, 4 Mi-26
101. OWO in Sokol: 6 Mi-8
1530. ERP in Komsomolsk: 5 S-300PS
1529. ERP in Khabarowsk: 3 S-300PS

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Direkt unterstellt

Komandowanije DA
6950. AB in Engels: 18 Tu-160, 14 Tu-95MS-6
6952. AB in Ukranika: 36 Tu-95MS-6
6953. AB in Engels: 30 Tu-22M3, 2 Tu-22MR, 2 Tu-134UBL, 3 An-30, 2 An-12
6951. AB in Shaikowka: 30 Tu-22M3
43. TsBP i PLS in Rjasan: 4 Tu-22M3, 4 Tu-95MS, 8 Tu-134UBL
6954. AB in Djagilewo: 18 Il-78

Komandowanije WWS
929. GLITs in Aktubinsk: 2 MiG-31BM, 2 Su-30MK, 4 MiG-29SMT, 18 MiG-29, 1 Su-34, 14 Su-24M2, 2 Jak-130
4. TsBL i PLS in Lipetsk: 2 MiG-31BM, 5 Su-27SM, 6 Su-27UB, 6 MiG-29SMT, 6 MiG-29UB, 4 Su-24M2, 6 Su-24M, 2 Su-24MR, 4 Su-25SM, 1 Su-25UBM, 6 Su-25, 6 Su-25UB, 2 Jak-130
344. TsBL i PLS in Torshok: 8 Ka-50, 2 Ka-52, 4 Mi-28N, 16 Mi-24,
12 Mi-8, 8 Mi-26
185. TsBP i BP in Ashuluk: 1 Tu-160, 3 Tu-95MS, 2 Tu-22M3,
4 MiG-31B, 8 Su-27S, 7 MiG-29, 8 Su-24M, 6 Su-25
2457. AB in Iwanowo: 12 A-50, 1 Il-76MD, 1 Il-22M, 2 An-26, 8 Mi-8

Komandowanije WTA
6985. AB in Pskow: 27 Il-76MD, 6 An-22
6958. AB in Taganrog: 27 Il-76 MD
6957. AB in Seshtsha: 18 An-124-100, 4 Il-76MD
6991. AB in Tshkalowskij: 16 Tu-154, 8 An-72, 5 An-26, 5 An-12, 11 Il-22M

Mitärdistrikt = military district
Hauptquartier = head quarter

If there are any additional questions regarding translations hier let me know.

[F-15 Eagle]

I don't know how accurate the numbers are, or how many are combat ready but heres a link ( the numbers look a bit optimistic):rolleyes:

State of the Russian Air Force | Russian Arms, Military Technology, Analysis of Russia's Military Forces (http://warfare.ru/?lang=&catid=241&linkid=2180&linkname=State-of-the-Russian-Air-Force)

I thought there would be more fighters in service. It says only 194 Mg-29s I thought there were at least 260?

@GI-Gizmo


You can replace that with "way off from any reality".
The following link leads to a document in russian which is claimed to be a january 2009 status+2010 prospects of the RuAF.
zSHARE - RuAF orbat 2009-10.xls (http://www.zshare.net/download/637588383ce0ba35/)



I tried to download but it did not work for me.

[Scorpion82]

Strange, I'll upload the document somewhere else. It's in russian but you can gather some details from their, even if you can't speak russian.

[SkolZkiy]

Germans are not counting reserve.
And numbers that are given by Gi-Gizmo are mostly uncorrect.
Su-30 - there are no 140 of them. Su-30 when it was born planned as a sommander of group of 4 Su-27 or MiG-29 bur it was not built in such numbers.
18 Su-34 - may be, but as we counted something like 10-12
MiG-31 in service 120-140 and all the rest 200-300 in reserve
Su-24 in service 200+ AC anything else in reserve
MiG-29 ~300 in service (100 were flying, 200 were being repaired according to last problems) - all the rest in reserve
Su-27 ~300 in service (modernization progamme is in run ot level Su-27SM, from next year all the rest ro SM2 in other words to Su-35BM)

Mi-28 60
Ka-50/52 42 - is this a joke?? it is planned to buy them up to 2015
now there are 12-20 Mi-28 and 6-12 Ka-50/52

But the real numbers nobody knows. All info about exact qaulity and quantity and state of Russia armed forces is under secret.
almost All I've said here is official info

[SkolZkiy]

Also... Russian aircraft reliability and availability due to maintnance, corruption and
logistical problems keeps the actual number of planes ready to fly and fight at an
estimated 60% average availability rate. Aircraft numbers are counting all active
and reserve models, some may be upgraded to modern standards while other may
be older models still in service.

Some people say that you are wrong :) everything is much better

[Scorpion82]

But the real numbers nobody knows. All info about exact qaulity and quantity and state of Russia armed forces is under secret.
almost All I've said here is official info

The link I provided leads to an Excel document which is claimed to come from the russian MoD (at least the listing itself).
It includes the status of all units on 1.1.2009 and the planed composition on 1.1.2010, including reserves, allocation etc.

[Duffy]

[QUOTE=F-15 Eagle;180355]I thought there would be more fighters in service. It says only 194 Mg-29s I thought there were at least 260?

F-15 Eagle on the right side of the page there is a list of AC. Click on the one of interest and it explains how they arrived at the given number. Example Mig - 29 Operational 194 AC , Reserve 150 +/-, 6 Algerian canceled
Total = 350 =/-
Training 50 Sent for restoration 106
Operational 194
Like I said before I don't know how accurate the numbers are, If you look at all of them some seem out of whack. I posted this site because it brakes down the numbers. Or at least tries to. But just because there thorough doesn't make them accurate. :D

[SkolZkiy]

The link I provided leads to an Excel document which is claimed to come from the russian MoD (at least the listing itself).
It includes the status of all units on 1.1.2009 and the planed composition on 1.1.2010, including reserves, allocation etc.

I repeat once more
Any numbers of REAL status of Russian armed forces are in special list of information which is TOP SECRET
This is the LAW of Russian Federation. May be in US or somewhere else it is not so but in Russia it is so

[GI-Gizmo]

The inventory I listed is bloated, but that is the average taking into account all legitimate sources. Russia always exaggerates their actual capabilities, firepower and technical
standing. The list I posted includes all aircraft considered active by the Russian Air Force.
While they say they have 448 MiG-29 Fulcrums, in reality only about 220 are able to fly and
fight. The remaining fulcrums in service are older, spares or just sitting on a tarmac somewhere in various states of disrepair. Officialy they are still considered part of the AF inventory so I listed them. If anybody would of scrolled down to my second post [directly under my first post] they would of realized I explained this briefly and to cut the numbers in half to get a real idea of the actual number of aircraft that can fly and fight. The Russian Air Force is in sad shape, the problems are numerous and they run deep. Everything from lack of technical personnel, poor maintnance, corrupt officers to geographic difficulties and alcoholism are major issues that have no indication of fading away anytime soon. Russia is in a unqiue position militarily speaking, they have a huge area to defend and keep watch over, yet a shrinking population. They have very serious social problems, a record high death rate
and a limited pool of technical people to recruit from. They have a plethora of Cold War weapons platforms left over to arm them into the early 21st Century, yet these are quickly becoming obsolete. The race to replace platforms and keep up with technological advances
with limited resources is a recipe for disaster. Almost all the new aircraft introduced since the fall of the Soviet Union are incremental improvements upon previous platforms, no completely new aircraft has been rolled out. The new PAK FA 5th generation fighter does not yet have a
prototype mock-up.

[Duffy]

The number of air craft any given air force has in no way reflects the state of that Air Force. Does any one have info on the flight hours for the average fighter pilot in the Russian Air Force? Also number of trainees? You can have a million shiny new fighters and with no one to fly and work on them it would do nothing but chew up money.

If anyone has info on this please post......:confused:

[SkolZkiy]

from 60 to 120 hours per year nowadays (120 is a maximum)
But there is one note - in US and EU as I know flying hours are counted from turning on engines. In Russia flying hours are counted from the moment of taking-off the land. So if we count as in the west this number will be higher

[SkolZkiy]

GI-Gizmo once more - you don't know anything about PAK-FA. As I too.
It is only said that 3 prototypes are almost or fully ready - one flying and 2 for land tests. That is all.
I've already said here for several times. In US and EU the new project of AC is a great festival and advertising company. The prototype YF-23 and YF-22 were shown publicly before first flights. And this is normal FOR YOUR COUNTRIES. I don't say is it good or is it bad. But it is so and you know that.
In Russia there is a different situation. we all know that PAK-FA and T-95 exist but nobody saw them except some militaries and productioners. And THAT IS NORMAL FOR OUR COUNTRY.

Dialog of two men
-Do you see gopher in that grass?
-no
-me too, but it is there

I also don't want to say that RuAF is in chocolate but the situation is not as bad as GI-Gizmo says, everything is much better.

[turin]

It is only said that 3 prototypes are almost or fully ready - one flying and 2 for land tests.

Thats incorrect, at least according to the official statements at this point in time. The latest such statement said that there are three airframes finished, one of them was moved to Moscow for some kind of static tests and that the first flight-prototype was still in the process of assembly. Thats what they said less than four weeks ago. So first flight may or may not take place in the end of the year.

I agree as far as the difference in presentation is concerned. Russia has a history of hiding things up until the last minute. The SSBN-presentation not too long ago showed that very clearly. Its not necessarily a good idea though, esp. when its about the image of indigenous development and production capabilities. After all, Russia has an interest in generating attention for future export prospects.

[Duffy]

from 60 to 120 hours per year nowadays (120 is a maximum)
But there is one note - in US and EU as I know flying hours are counted from turning on engines. In Russia flying hours are counted from the moment of taking-off the land. So if we count as in the west this number will be higher


In the US flight hours are from wheels up to wheels down I would think its the same in the EU also.(Its not like thy taxi all over any way). Russian front line fighter pilots average 60 to 65 hours a year as of August 2009.With young crew commanders averaging 20.6 hours. More importantly look at the training time and cost. For a front line pilot its seven to eight years and $3.4 million. While "Sniper-pilots" take 10-12 years and $7.8 million. Future introduction of modern platforms will raise costs and timescale for pilot training. There is no quick fix . Realistically to field modernized aircraft with capable pilots in existing numbers will take till 2018+
Link to interview below.
Russian Air Force Modernization Linked to Future U.S. "Threat" - The Jamestown Foundation (http://www.jamestown.org/single/?no_cache=1&tx_ttnews%5Btt_news%5D=35427)

[GI-Gizmo]

GI-Gizmo once more - you don't know anything about PAK-FA. As I too.
It is only said that 3 prototypes are almost or fully ready - one flying and 2 for land tests. That is all.
I've already said here for several times. In US and EU the new project of AC is a great festival and advertising company. The prototype YF-23 and YF-22 were shown publicly before first flights. And this is normal FOR YOUR COUNTRIES. I don't say is it good or is it bad. But it is so and you know that.
In Russia there is a different situation. we all know that PAK-FA and T-95 exist but nobody saw them except some militaries and productioners. And THAT IS NORMAL FOR OUR COUNTRY.

Dialog of two men
-Do you see gopher in that grass?
-no
-me too, but it is there

I also don't want to say that RuAF is in chocolate but the situation is not as bad as GI-Gizmo says, everything is much better.

The first flight of a prototype PAK FA is now estimated to take place sometime in the first few
months of 2010. The Centre for Analysis of Strategies and Technologies (Moscow) deputy head
Konstantin Makiyenko was recently quoted as saying that it will be 10 years between the first flight and the time production begins. Historically, fourth and fifth generation fighters take 15 to 20 years to develop. There are problems with the powerplant, manufacturing techniques and
ofcourse financial constraints and limitations to deal with that are hindering the project. Foreign financial assistance is being sought. The whole project now depends on money, with it the project will go forward and Russia will have an advanced 5th-gen fighter jet. Without it the project will either drag on, end or morph into split projects and another incrementally updated aircraft will come along for the interm. Currently the financing is not there, but the project is still continuing.

[GI-Gizmo]

When I said that PAK FA did not have a prototype yet, I meant the actual prototype that
would go into production. I realize that different types of PAK FA aircraft designs are being
built in both mock-up and prototype stage. The actual aircraft that will become Russia's
5th generation fighter is yet to be built.

[SkolZkiy]

The first flight of a prototype PAK FA is now estimated to take place sometime in the first few
months of 2010. The Centre for Analysis of Strategies and Technologies (Moscow) deputy head
Konstantin Makiyenko was recently quoted as saying that it will be 10 years between the first flight and the time production begins. Historically, fourth and fifth generation fighters take 15 to 20 years to develop. There are problems with the powerplant, manufacturing techniques and
ofcourse financial constraints and limitations to deal with that are hindering the project. Foreign financial assistance is being sought. The whole project now depends on money, with it the project will go forward and Russia will have an advanced 5th-gen fighter jet. Without it the project will either drag on, end or morph into split projects and another incrementally updated aircraft will come along for the interm. Currently the financing is not there, but the project is still continuing.

Who is this Makienko?? RuAF Commander? President? His is also called Mikhail Pagosyan? Why do you think he knows something truthful.
May be I'll say here that Russia has already 100 PAK-FA - and will quote me in another forum and say that I told that? Absolutely no.

Gi-Gizmo, look it was said that serial would START in 2015 - 6.5 years we have - don't you think that this time is enough to complete tests? and start serial? Start serial doesn't mean to built 100 AC annually but 10-20 AC.

"Historically, fourth and fifth generation fighters take 15 to 20 years to develop" - and what? he knew when development of PAK-FA started? I doubt.

[SkolZkiy]

Thats incorrect, at least according to the official statements at this point in time. The latest such statement said that there are three airframes finished, one of them was moved to Moscow for some kind of static tests and that the first flight-prototype was still in the process of assembly. Thats what they said less than four weeks ago. So first flight may or may not take place in the end of the year.

I agree as far as the difference in presentation is concerned. Russia has a history of hiding things up until the last minute. The SSBN-presentation not too long ago showed that very clearly. Its not necessarily a good idea though, esp. when its about the image of indigenous development and production capabilities. After all, Russia has an interest in generating attention for future export prospects.

About 3 airframes I know exactly and 1 of them must be flying. The problem is that officials tell different things. That's why I posted 3 but you are right sometimes it is said about 4 airframes - 3 static tests and 1 flying
About good or bad - such things also could be said about T-95 but we here don't care about who what can say - Russia on its own example (1941-1945) learned one thing - the possible enemy must know minimum about our armed forces. And this is our choice. The real possible enemy are NATO and China - these two powers can threaten our independence and with them Russia is ready to fight. It doesn't mean the real war MUST BE, it only means that Russia must have Armed forces that could defend it against any possible enemy. Information is also very dangerous weapon.

When PAK-FA fly it will be all right with Russia's world image

[SkolZkiy]

In the US flight hours are from wheels up to wheels down I would think its the same in the EU also.(Its not like thy taxi all over any way). Russian front line fighter pilots average 60 to 65 hours a year as of August 2009.With young crew commanders averaging 20.6 hours. More importantly look at the training time and cost. For a front line pilot its seven to eight years and $3.4 million. While "Sniper-pilots" take 10-12 years and $7.8 million. Future introduction of modern platforms will raise costs and timescale for pilot training. There is no quick fix . Realistically to field modernized aircraft with capable pilots in existing numbers will take till 2018+
Link to interview below.
Russian Air Force Modernization Linked to Future U.S. "Threat" - The Jamestown Foundation (http://www.jamestown.org/single/?no_cache=1&tx_ttnews%5Btt_news%5D=35427)

You are right - but it was in 2008 now it is little better
about 120 - I underlined that this is maximum for some airbases for some pilots (Strizhi, Russkie Vityazi). And of course strategic aviation - Tu-22M3, Tu-160, Tu-95MS. As you know our SA is flying now very often.
For young pilots - main problem now is not in money or fuel but in training ACs - L-39 are too old and Yak-130 are only starting serial.
And as you know reform of VVS is provided and all VVS are becoming frontline. The rest would be fired to reserve.

EDITED. By the way I searched web for the this quote by Zein and in Russian I didn't find it on INTERFAX. Something strange. And it was by Nagovitsin that avarage number is 60-65 hours in RuAF

[Duffy]

[QUOTE=SkolZkiy;180535]You are right - but it was in 2008 now it is little better
about 120 - I underlined that this is maximum for some airbases for some pilots (Strizhi, Russkie Vityazi). And of course strategic aviation - Tu-22M3, Tu-160, Tu-95MS. As you know our SA is flying now very often.
For young pilots - main problem now is not in money or fuel but in training ACs - L-39 are too old and Yak-130 are only starting serial.
And as you know reform of VVS is provided and all VVS are becoming frontline. The rest would be fired to reserve.


" A little better" up to 120 hrs? Its up 13% not 100% . At best its 67 to 73 hrs on average. I understand that some airbases will have more time than others. Thats whey we are using the average. 120 hrs might be the average for all RuAF pilots but we were talking about fighter pilots. Transport/Strategic bombers/Tankers are completely different. 120 hours sounds realistic for an overall average. I would agree with the young pilots but you over looked the lack of modern air craft. When they graduate out of the trainer what do you put them in. (New platforms are going to forward bases).Train them to fly old fighters and then train them again? Remember you don't just jump from one air frame to another. The vacuum created by the fall of the Soviet Union will take decades to come out of. I respect your patriotism and have no doubt that the RuAF will be a top notch Air Force again. I hope you understand that its a very complicated situation the Air Force is in and on top of that it has to compete with the Navy and Army for funding. There is no short term solution, If they keep trying to pretend that there a super power developing new bombers and aircraft carriers it will just take that much longer.
Don't take this the wrong way but what if the PAK-FA is a flop?. It does happen when developing fighters.( I am not saying it is) no one will know for a few years but just what if.From a development point of view it has been rushed. That could set them back another 10 Years. :( Things are better for the Russian Armed Forces across the board, but there is still a mountain to climb.
PS I think the" Makienko" GI-Gizmo was referring to is Konstantin Makiyenko, who is deputy head of the Moscow-based Center for Analysis of Strategies and Technologies. If anyone understands the time frame involved its him.
Like I said SkolZkiy I am not bashing anyone and admire your Patriotism. ;)

[GI-Gizmo]

Who is this Makienko?? RuAF Commander? President? His is also called Mikhail Pagosyan? Why do you think he knows something truthful.
May be I'll say here that Russia has already 100 PAK-FA - and will quote me in another forum and say that I told that? Absolutely no.

Gi-Gizmo, look it was said that serial would START in 2015 - 6.5 years we have - don't you think that this time is enough to complete tests? and start serial? Start serial doesn't mean to built 100 AC annually but 10-20 AC.

"Historically, fourth and fifth generation fighters take 15 to 20 years to develop" - and what? he knew when development of PAK-FA started? I doubt.


Konstantin Makiyenko is the Deputy Head of the Moscow based Centre for Analysis of Strategies and Technologies. At MAKS 2009 he was quoted as saying it would take 10
years from the time the first flight takes place in early 2010 to when production is expected
to begin. As far as how long Russia has had plans for a 5th generation fighter, that has been
since the early 1980s. The actual design, building and testing of components and how they
would all come together is something much more recent. Sukhoi was chosen as the prime
contractor for the PAK FA in May 2002. The Su-47, which the PAK FA is supposed to be
based upon, is a recent design of only around 10 years old. My personal opinion, based upon historical analysis of advanced aviation projects, the state of the Russian defense industry,
the budget constraints and the leap in technology that it is going to take to build an advanced, stealthy and competitive 5th generation fighter is that it will take more than 6.5 years to complete. I'm not saying that it is impossible, I definently respect Russian progress and
achievements when it comes to defense technology and I realize they are among the top
defense manufacturers and global powers. I guess we will all have to wait and see what
happens since none of us work for Sukhoi or the Russian military, we are all full of opinions
based upon what we see, read and think.

[SkolZkiy]

Guys if this will say anyone really respectable then I'll say "That's ok".
120 or higher - it is Strategic aviation
60 hours it was said avarage for fighters
transport aviation even more then strategic
about our frontier bombers I really don't know
It is not a patriotizm but sometimes we here know news better then somebody outside. I know we have problems but we are not dying. By the way I'm here hearing about big troubles in US and Eu with defence, but I'm not so sure that all these things is true.

[vitalivr4]

I do not want to post a rumor around here but here is what I know so far. According to my friend’s words who works for the ministry of defense “ 1 airplane is in a flying condition since last year”. All I can say right now is this: the cockpit has a shape of a water drop and wings are pointed forward.

[Tavarisch]

Russians are known to be secretive about their weapons. When the AK-74 came out, CIA Analysts shat their pants because they didn't know about it until an October Parade.

However, I doubt the credibility of the PAK-FA and T-95 for now. I won't believe a thing until I actually see them.

Last year, the Defense Minister told us that the T-95 should be in introduced this year. I don't see anything yet. Unless you're telling me that their hiding a few prototype 50-tonne tanks somewhere in Siberia, which wouldn't be surprising. However, given the financial status of Russia I doubt it.

Regarding the PAK-FA, it looks like they're delaying and delaying. Mikhail Pogosyan, while he was here in Malaysia during our LIMA Exhibition 2007, said that the PAK-FA isn't ready to fly until this year. Sukhoi General Director Mikhail Pogosyan again said that the first flight would be by year end. If they keep delaying, their gonna start losing a lot of confidence from a lot of people.

[SkolZkiy]

Tavarisch I am reading Russian military news very often - I didn't see any interview of officials from MoD about time of showing T-95. By the way this index even doesn't exist in documents - object 195 exists. If you have links please show it
About PAK-FA may be you are right but we don't know exactly that. And as I know my country - the decision about showing/hiding PAK-FA or ob.195 will be made by Medvedev or Putin, at least one of them must give permission for this

[Duffy]

Russians are known to be secretive about their weapons. When the AK-74 came out, CIA Analysts shat their pants because they didn't know about it until an October Parade..

Yes the AK was a very well kelped secret but times have changed. Russia has to fight for a market share in the very competitive arms market in order to help cover costs. Back during the cold war the US and USSR would develop and produce tools of war and other country's could buy them or not buy them. With the cost of high tech toys we all so desire you have to count on export to help cover development cost.Or share the R&D with other countries. That seems to be difficult for Russia because of the lack of money. It seems to be if you enter into a joint program with another nation and your financial contribution is not proportionate to your technical contribution there is a problem. If you put in fifty percent of the cash and have ninety percent of the knowledge base how much control should you have fifty percent or ninety percent? That makes for an unstable relationship, Someone is going to feel like they got screwed . If there right or not make no difference you will loose that customer.:(

As for the PAK-FA there going to have problem, Its a completely new design with new materials. I never understood why they said I would fly this year. If they try to rush this fighter into the air and it crashes it would hurt the program more than delays ever could. Realistically I would expect to see it fly at this time next year. and enter service some time around 2018. This is purely a guess

Thats just my 2 cents.

[Feanor]

Just to throw in something a little more relative then all this speculation, I recall earlier there was infinite skepticism about an Su-35 contract. Well now a serial order of 48 Su-35S has been placed for the VVS. In the old structure that would have been two regiments, but after the recent reforms I don't even know what the fighter aviation units look like anymore so it's anyone's guess as to how they will be split up.

ÀÐÌÑ-ÒÀÑÑ (http://arms-tass.su/?page=article&aid=74552&cid=25)

[SkolZkiy]

that's true
It was said there would be AIRBASES - what it means in fact just now is not clear.

[Haavarla]

What is the current state of the Russian Air Force? Like how many fighters, bombers, transports and helicopters they have in active service. I wish I had an accurate source instead of Wikipedia.

Here is a link on RuAF witch i think are pretty good.

MIG-29/MIG-35 Fulcrum Counter-Air Fighter | Russian Arms, Military Technology, Analysis of Russia's Military Forces (http://www.warfare.ru/?lang=&catid=255&linkid=1600&linkname=MIG-29/MIG-35-Fulcrum-Counter-Air-Fighter)

Its show a total of 194 aktive Mig-29


Thanks

[Haavarla]

Just to throw in something a little more relative then all this speculation, I recall earlier there was infinite skepticism about an Su-35 contract. Well now a serial order of 48 Su-35S has been placed for the VVS. In the old structure that would have been two regiments, but after the recent reforms I don't even know what the fighter aviation units look like anymore so it's anyone's guess as to how they will be split up.

ÀÐÌÑ-ÒÀÑÑ (http://arms-tass.su/?page=article&aid=74552&cid=25)



My bet is that those 48 Su-35 will be spred out or embeded if you like into other existing Su-27SM Regiment/skvadron.

Its quite logical, that way they bring up the existing regiments capabilities.



Thanks

[Feanor]

It's completely illogical to me. The Su-27SM have been deployed in whole regiments, instead of getting spread out throughout Su-27S regiments. Also the logistical and training hurdles between having some planes in a unit of one type and some of another would make it unlikely.

[turin]

At the time of the MAKS 2009-announcment one russian article threw in the number of three new squadrons being formed with the Su-35. I cant source it at the moment, so consider it hear-say. There certainly was never any talk of spreading them out through existing units. So as Feanor says, thats quite unlikely.

[Haavarla]

It's completely illogical to me. The Su-27SM have been deployed in whole regiments, instead of getting spread out throughout Su-27S regiments. Also the logistical and training hurdles between having some planes in a unit of one type and some of another would make it unlikely.
Hi Feanor.
I do appreciate your opinion in this Forum.
But i do not agree with you on this one.

You forgot to mention the cost of forming up completly new Skvadrons of Su-35.

It will be far sheaper to integrate them into exsisting Skvadrons of Flanker, so i don't understand the logistical and Training issue..
There will of course be a given numbers of pilots to be trained in those new Su-35, so what?

The pilots would have to come from the older Su-27/SM anyway, right?
Less training time will be the outcome, hense less cost too.

And do you have any status over the current Su-27/SM Regiment/Skavdrons inventory today?

It is not unfair to say some of them would greatly bennefit from the new Su-35.
Infact, several of the exsisting Su-27/sm regiments/Skvadron today could be missing some Aircrafts due to service & maintanance problems.
It's not always so easy to "bring in some reserve Flankers whenever they breakdown(structure futige)".
That will undoubtly take its toll on resources, just to get them active again.

So i would say it is a good chance Su-35 will enter existing Flanker Skavdrons.

But i suspect most of them will find its way south the the Kaucasus region anyway.

If anyone have some good sources that confirming otherwise, i will not yield;)


Thanks

[Feanor]

I'll try to get you some sources. Typically deployment plans receive at least some press coverage. So even if they try to keep it under wraps in the major news outlets, local newspapers might pick something up. True it's expensive to form entirely new squadrons, but up until now that has been the policy.

[Haavarla]

Feanor;181380]I'll try to get you some sources.
Typically deployment plans receive at least some press coverage. So even if they try to keep it under wraps in the major news outlets, local newspapers might pick something up.

Appreciate it.


True it's expensive to form entirely new squadrons, but up until now that has been the policy.

Agreed, but times have changed in the RuAF as a whole.
They are under the re-structure knife like many other units/branch in Russia armed forces today.

And one must keep in mind, even if the RuAF have gotten a huge procurment contract.
Its been ages since the last one, and the RuAF still have limited resourses to maintain all the Regiments/units.
The average flight hour of the pilots have improved, but are still lagging behind many other nations AF.
This are good pointers to the funding of the RuAF.
(No downplaying intended here).

Of course, there is no telling that some skvadrons of the Su-27 that is not in the SM standard could get replaced by Su-35 completly.
The older Su-27 could end up in reserves or be transfered to others units in the RuAF.


Thanks

[Salty Dog]

It's completely illogical to me. The Su-27SM have been deployed in whole regiments, instead of getting spread out throughout Su-27S regiments. Also the logistical and training hurdles between having some planes in a unit of one type and some of another would make it unlikely.

I agree with Feanor on the logistical and training hurdles WRT mixing aircraft of different types. For this reason you do not see the legacy Hornets (F/A-18 C/D) mixed with Super Hornets (F/A-18E/F) in the same squadron.

[Salty Dog]

Hi Feanor.

You forgot to mention the cost of forming up completly new Skvadrons of Su-35.

It will be far sheaper to integrate them into exsisting Skvadrons of Flanker, so i don't understand the logistical and Training issue..
There will of course be a given numbers of pilots to be trained in those new Su-35, so what?

The pilots would have to come from the older Su-27/SM anyway, right?
Less training time will be the outcome, hense less cost too.

So i would say it is a good chance Su-35 will enter existing Flanker Skavdrons.

If anyone have some good sources that confirming otherwise, i will not yield;)

Thanks

IMHO some of the Su-27 squadrons should completely transition to the Su-35. Much the same way the USN F-14 squadrons transitioned to the Super Hornet. There does not need to be a change in total squadron numbers or manning levels. Just re-train and re-classify personnel. Maintenenance will be an issue as the newer Su-35 avionics and materials are very different than the legacy Flankers.

IMHO Su-27 airframes with a high number of flight hours may be retired anyway to save on maintenance costs. Remaining airframes may be redistributed to balance out the total Flanker force.

BTW a link to some info on Flanker distribution:

Table 2. MOD Commands and Deployments (http://www.warfare.ru/?lang=&catid=255&linkid=1604&linkname=SU-27-Flanker-air-superiority-fighter)

[Haavarla]

What your bet here?

The first formed Su-35 or mixed flanker Skvadron, will it be at the COMBAT TRG CENTER Lipetsk?
And When finishing the training, it will be transfered to Akhtubinsk for active duty?



Thanks

[Feanor]

That link has some faulty info, it seems. It claims that airbase 6972 has the ex-55th Helo regiment. But the 55th Helo regiment was deployed to the 7th Military Base in Abkhazia, last I heard. This site lists it as being in Krimsk, near Krasnodar. It's rather strange. If this site is more or less correct, then the new "airbases" are not standardized, and mix types of aircraft. It almost seems like each one is taylored to it's local conditions. Some have 24 Flankers, some 12, and some over 30. It will be interesting to see how the Su-35S's get distributed.

EDIT: On second thought, warfare.ru is typically relatively reliable. I'm not sure what to think to be honest.

[SkolZkiy]

And now really we hear about MiG-29K for RuNAVY
Lenta.ru: Îðóæèå: Ìèíîáîðîíû êóïèò ïàëóáíûå èñòðåáèòåëè ÌèÃ-29Ê äëÿ "Àäìèðàëà Êóçíåöîâà" (http://lenta.ru/news/2009/09/24/fighters/)
here is in Russian
It is said that may be 24 MiG-29K would ordered for Kuznetsov

[Feanor]

Yep, just read the same article. On some level it's a relief new planes are being bought at all. On another level, I was hoping for a navalized PAK-FA, or some 5th gen. platform instead of just upgrade Fulcrums. Those were the rumors floating aroud originally. So we can infer that either there isn't enough money to develop it, or the PAK-FA is so far off that waiting for a navalized 5th gen just isn't an option. Neither one is good news.

[Salty Dog]

Yep, just read the same article. On some level it's a relief new planes are being bought at all. On another level, I was hoping for a navalized PAK-FA, or some 5th gen. platform instead of just upgrade Fulcrums. Those were the rumors floating aroud originally. So we can infer that either there isn't enough money to develop it, or the PAK-FA is so far off that waiting for a navalized 5th gen just isn't an option. Neither one is good news.

Does this mean RuN will replace Su-33s with Mig-29Ks ??

[SkolZkiy]

Su-33 has limited resource which ends somtetime. May be their life would be extended but still. Navalized PAK-FA would be be built only after building new training center for NAVY aircrafts near Astrakhan (the construction is planned in 2011/12) But we still need new AC for training pilots. And MiG-29K could be built here and now. I think if the order is signed RUNAVY would get them in 1-3 years. which means (2011-2012).

[Feanor]

Does this mean RuN will replace Su-33s with Mig-29Ks ??

That's what it looks like. Most likely it's being done (as opposed to getting the Flankers modernized and refitted) to throw a bone to MiG, whose finances are in trouble. It's to the point where it's jeopardizing their entry into the UAC, which is a priority. It would extend the production run for the Fulcrum line, until the MiG-35 is ready. Even if it loses the Indian tender, it has so far been stated as the LFI requirement to complement the PAK-FA, so guaranteed domestic orders and a production run of over 100 fighters until some foreign orders can be won.

[Salty Dog]

Su-33 has limited resource which ends somtetime. May be their life would be extended but still. Navalized PAK-FA would be be built only after building new training center for NAVY aircrafts near Astrakhan (the construction is planned in 2011/12) But we still need new AC for training pilots. And MiG-29K could be built here and now. I think if the order is signed RUNAVY would get them in 1-3 years. which means (2011-2012).

Could please clarify what you mean by "limited resource"?

IMHO the Su-33 should have very low hours on their airframes as I doubt they had much optempo over the years. So life extension should not be an issue. However, if the Mig-29K capabilities match or exceed the Su-33 or operating costs are far less then it would be a logical choice. This would be in a way sort of like the F/A-18F replacing the F-14D.

I would think the Mig-29K would enter RuN service rapidly as the factory line already producing the India Navy Mig-29K and the Indian pilots are presently in training, 1-3 years looks good.

[Salty Dog]

That's what it looks like. Most likely it's being done (as opposed to getting the Flankers modernized and refitted) to throw a bone to MiG, whose finances are in trouble. It's to the point where it's jeopardizing their entry into the UAC, which is a priority. It would extend the production run for the Fulcrum line, until the MiG-35 is ready. Even if it loses the Indian tender, it has so far been stated as the LFI requirement to complement the PAK-FA, so guaranteed domestic orders and a production run of over 100 fighters until some foreign orders can be won.

Thank you mate. Your response is slanted towards a commercial strategy. It would be interesting to see if the RuN is onboard with this replacement plan. There should be studies somewhere of the Mig-29K replacing the Su-33.

[Haavarla]

That's what it looks like. Most likely it's being done (as opposed to getting the Flankers modernized and refitted) to throw a bone to MiG, whose finances are in trouble. It's to the point where it's jeopardizing their entry into the UAC, which is a priority. It would extend the production run for the Fulcrum line, until the MiG-35 is ready. Even if it loses the Indian tender, it has so far been stated as the LFI requirement to complement the PAK-FA, so guaranteed domestic orders and a production run of over 100 fighters until some foreign orders can be won.

I agree with you Feanor.

The Navy PAK-FA for Russia are so far into the future, that this Mig-29K seems like the smartest thing to do.
Just think of it.. the RuAF will undoubtly get their first Skvadrons of the the PAK-FA long before the Ru-Navy.
In the worst case scenario, the PAK-FA cost per unit could be too expensive for the Ru-Navy.

Anyway, both in procurment & service cost the Mig-29K should be well under the Su-33 series.

Thanks

[Feanor]

I suspect that if serious studies were done, they're kept under wraps, as this stuff tends to be in Russia. The RuN gets no choice in this. Procurement strategy is dictated from above, and while some adjustment on the lower levels is possible, in this case they'll be grateful they're getting anything at all. It also falls in line with the recent policy of throwing RAC MiG bones to keep them from collapsing completely.

To be honest I doubt it's all that hard to overhaul and modernize the Su-33s to an Su-30M2 standard, or something else along those lines. It would probably cost less too. And like you said, the Su-33s haven't seen much action. The biggest issue would be their poor state in terms of maintenance. So the decision to get the MiG-29K doesn't stem out of procurement necessities, but most likely out of political-economic decisions. Similar to the decision to buy the Mig-35 for the LFI requirement, instead of getting MiG to develop a "light" version of the PAK-FA. This is mainly because 1) MiG probably can't do so within a reasonable timeframe, and 2) needs orders now. At least that's my reasoning.

[Salty Dog]

Thanks for your response and insights Feanor.

So Russian 5th generation fighter programs (PAK FA, LFI) are not yet mature enough to enable replacement of legacy Flanker and Fulcrum systems in the short to medium term. Thus RuAF and RuNav are pressed to replace their legacy systems with advanced 4th gen fighters namely the Su-35 and Mig-29K. The Russian military industrial complex in particular Sukhoi and RAC Mig need to keep their production lines open for commercial survival. Some big challenges indeed.

As mentioned, a high probability the RuNav will replace the Su-33 with the Mig-29K

Russian Navy will probably buy 24 MiG-29K fighters designed for India (http://rusnavy.com/news/navy/index.php?ELEMENT_ID=7697)

[Haavarla]

Are there any news on what will happen with the Pre-prod Su-34s?

Will they be upgraded to series prod standard and enter RuAF?


Thanks

[Feanor]

Nothing will happen to the pre-production Su-34 run as far as I know. Or are you referring to airframes 901, 902, and 903? Those are series production airframes, and will be part of the first Su-34 unit. Iirc, before the reforms the 455th BAP in Voronezh (my hometown :) ) was scheduled to receive the Su-34s. Where they will go now, I don't know.

Salty Dog the LFI requirement has been fulfilled by the MiG-35, at least that's the news so far. So it no longer warrants a 5th gen. fighter program. I.e. the PAK-FA will be the only one.

[Haavarla]

Thank you mate. Your response is slanted towards a commercial strategy. It would be interesting to see if the RuN is onboard with this replacement plan. There should be studies somewhere of the Mig-29K replacing the Su-33.

Here is some news on Mig-29K.
It's been evaluated on the Admiral Kuznetsov 28-29 sept.
Looks like its a done deal then..

Its a google translation..

"MiG-29K and MiG-29KUB flew with the heavy aircraft-carrying cruiser "Admiral Kuznetsov"

JSC "RSK" MiG "successfully conducted on heavy aircraft carrier (heavy aircraft)," Admiral Kuznetsov "flight tests ship-based fighters MiG-29K/KUB, mass-produced on request of the Indian Navy.
In tests on MiG-29K and MiG-29KUB 28 and 29 September 2009 made several landings and takeoffs on the deck of the cruiser, located in the Barents Sea.
During test flights the aircraft flown by test pilots RAC "MiG" Mikhail Belyaev, Pavel Vlasov, Nikolay Diorditsa and test pilot of Air Force Colonel Oleg Russia match.
The flights conducted Deputy Director-General RSK MiG on flight operations - Chief Flight Test Center im.A.V.Fedotova Hero of Russia Pavel Vlasov. Over the course of testing observed by representatives of the customer.
Flight tests MiG-29K/KUB on heavy aircraft carrier "Admiral Kuznetsov" sum up the great work of creation in Russia of a new shipborne fighters.
General Director RAC "MiG" Mikhail Pogosyan, who was during a test flight aboard the cruiser "Admiral Kuznetsov", thanked the pilots for their excellent work and stressed that the flights from the deck require the highest flying skills. Mikhail Pogosyan, expressed confidence that the aircraft will be needed MiG-29K/KUB Russia's Armed Forces. The head of the Corporation "MiG" is also noted that the successful tests on the ship will contribute to the further development of the program MiG-29K/KUB in India and the increased interest of other foreign customers for new aircraft RAC "MiG".

Test pilots performing flights on MiG-29K and MiG-29KUB during testing in the Northern Fleet:

- Mikhail Belyaev - Test Pilot Class 1;
- Pavel Vlasov - Hero of Russia, Honored Test Pilot of Russia, Deputy Director RAC "MiG" by Flight Operations - Chief Flight Test Center (persons) im.A.V.Fedotova, head of flight services;
- Nicholas Diorditsa - Hero of Russia, distinguished test pilot of the RF, OFFICERS im.A.V.Fedotova;
- Oleg Match - Senior Test Pilot of the State Flight Test Center to them.

Marine MiG-29K (single) and MiG-29KUB (double) - Multi-purpose aircraft generation "4 + +, designed to solve the problems of ship air defense compounds, gaining dominance in the air, destruction of surface and ground targets with precision weapons controlled day and night all weather conditions.
First flight of skilled MiG-29KUB held in January 2007 the first serial aircraft took off in March 2008

The main technical and technological innovations on the fighters MiG-29K/KUB:
- Improved airframe with a high proportion of composite materials;
- Folding wings with improved mechanization, providing improved takeoff and landing characteristics;
- Digital integrated-wire aircraft control system with quadruple redundancy;
- Significantly reduced visibility in the radar range;
- Increased combat load;
- Increased internal fuel capacity and the availability of in-flight refueling;
- The ability to refuel other aircraft fuel in the fuel unit refueling equipment PAZ-1MK.

Fighters MiG-29K/KUB the improved performance and higher reliability of assemblies, systems and components. Compared to the previous fighters, flying resource MiG-29K/KUB increased more than 2 times, and flight hour cost is reduced almost in 2,5 times. The avionics MiG-29K/KUB based on the principle of open architecture. The fighter is installed multifunctional multimode pulse-Doppler airborne radar station (radar) "Zhuk-ME. Compared with the previous-generation radars, it has a greater range of viewing angles in azimuth, double the detection range, lower weight and higher reliability. Radar" Zhuk -ME provides support up to 10 air targets and the simultaneous firing of rockets on four of them. MiG-29K/KUB equipped with modern multi-channel optical-location station and the system of targeting passive homing anti-radar missiles.
The complex consists of arming guided missiles, air-to-air and air-to-surface, adjustable, bombs, rockets, aerial bombs and built-in 30-mm cannon. At the request of the customer into the arms may be introduced new models of aircraft weapons.
For MiG-29K/KUB developed a complete set of teaching aids, including an integrated simulator with the system of mobility.
The strategy of integration capabilities RSK MiG and Sukhoi Company, the new fighter MiG will be implemented in the system created for the new generation of combat aircraft."

Thanks

[Haavarla]

Nothing will happen to the pre-production Su-34 run as far as I know. Or are you referring to airframes 901, 902, and 903? Those are series production airframes, and will be part of the first Su-34 unit. Iirc, before the reforms the 455th BAP in Voronezh (my hometown :) ) was scheduled to receive the Su-34s. Where they will go now, I don't know.


The Pre-prod Su-34 "48" was seen on Maks 2007.

Photos: Sukhoi Su-34 (Su-32FN) Aircraft Pictures | Airliners.net (http://www.airliners.net/photo/Russia---Air/Sukhoi-Su-34-(Su-32FN)/1501772/&sid=9e150df5159d3662480d065dda3805e3)

Any idea where these Pre-prod are now?
atleast the "44", "46" and "48" should be in good condition.


Thanks

[Feanor]

Ah, you beat me to it with the Kuznetsov trials. More big news, Army Aviation will be returned to Land Forces command, transferred from VVS, according to commander of Land Forces Boldyrev.

ÀÐÌÑ-ÒÀÑÑ (http://arms-tass.su/?page=article&aid=76196&cid=25)

I don't know that the 2-3 pre-prod airframes in good enough condition to be upgraded into serial production variants are important enough to investigate. Either NAPo will get their shit together, and we will see dozens of Su-34s, or there will be too few to make a difference.

[Haavarla]

Ah, you beat me to it with the Kuznetsov trials. More big news, Army Aviation will be returned to Land Forces command, transferred from VVS, according to commander of Land Forces Boldyrev.

ÀÐÌÑ-ÒÀÑÑ (http://arms-tass.su/?page=article&aid=76196&cid=25)

I don't know that the 2-3 pre-prod airframes in good enough condition to be upgraded into serial production variants are important enough to investigate. Either NAPo will get their shit together, and we will see dozens of Su-34s, or there will be too few to make a difference.


Yeah, good news.
Looks to me that Mikhail Pogosyan are doing his magic for RAC MIG these days:)
I must say i never tought i would see RAC Mig re-surfacing again, they sure was in big trouble a few years back..

"General Director RAC "MiG" Mikhail Pogosyan, who was during a test flight aboard the cruiser "Admiral Kuznetsov", thanked the pilots for their excellent work and stressed that the flights from the deck require the highest flying skills. Mikhail Pogosyan, expressed confidence that the aircraft will be needed MiG-29K/KUB Russia's Armed Forces. The head of the Corporation "MiG" is also noted that the successful tests on the ship will contribute to the further development of the program MiG-29K/KUB in India and the increased interest of other foreign customers for new aircraft RAC "MiG".

The Su-34 red "04" will fly by the end of this year. My gut feeling tells me so:)

Thanks

[Feanor]

If you're right, then production rates are at 1 airframe per year. Pathetic. I knew NAPO was in bad shape, but given that they managed modernization and overhauls for the Fencers at a relatively robust pace, this is sad. Then again, for all we know 04 could already be flying. They've stopped reporting specifics on delivery of new equipment.

[StevoJH]

Feanor, could the smaller size of the Mig 29K compared to the Su33 be a factor in its selection? The smaller size could make it more useful as a carrier aircraft compared to the Su 33?

Mig 29 is comparable in MTOW to the F/A 18A and C, whereas the Su 33 is comparable in MTOW to the F14D. The Mig also has a higher thrust/weight, which is probably an advantage for trying to get off a carrier deck.

[Feanor]

I heard no mention of how many can fit. We operate 24 Su-33s, but only 12 can fit on the Kuznetsov at one time. 24 MiG-29Ks will be bought, but how many will operate from the carrier at once remains to be seen. I also suspect that the MiG-29KUB will be bought to replace the Su-25UTGs as trainers for carrier aviation.

[SkolZkiy]

Feanor we have only 19 Su-33

[Feanor]

Feanor we have only 19 Su-33

Really? I always heard корабельный авиаполк. An air regiment is 24 fighters, two squadrons of 12. I think I may have assumed that this translated into 24 Su-33s. Though, I think I saw the number 24 somewhere. I'll look around. Do you have any sources?

EDIT: Nevermind, you're right. Apparently 24 is the required size, but we currently have 19.

[SkolZkiy]

it was built 24 but now there are only 19 of them - crashes and so on

[Toptob]

Could it also be that with the Mig-29K's of India, there are a lot more of them out there, so spares, logistics, maintenance and training will be cheaper? It could also be to give confidence to the Indians, seeing they bought even more Mig29-K's.

Does any of you know if the RuNav has planned any new aircraft carriers? And what is the state of your current one?

My last question is; if there is going to be a replacement or major update for the SU-25 in the future? I really like this AC and I think it deserves an upgrade at least.

[edit]
Ow BTW I looked up Voronezh on google earth. Are those mig-23's that are stationed there ??

[Feanor]

The VMF (RuN) does plan in the long run to have new A/Cs, but that's many years away. The Admiral Kuznetsov currently is operational, has been modernized, and has made several major voyages recently proving that it can still get around. Otherwise little is known.

The Su-25 is currently being upgraded to the Su-25SM standard, and new Su-25s are supposed to be getting built soon.

As for Voronezh, there is an aircraft plant there, but I don't know of any actual VVS unit stationed near Voronezh, other then the former 455th BAP flying Su-24M. No MiG-23s are currently active. In addition there are major weapon storage facilities near Voronezh. I'm not sure what you saw on google earth (links would be nice ;) ) but I would guess that if you did see MiG-23s, they were retired ones in storage on some airfield.

[SkolZkiy]

By the way it is also planned to produce deep modernization of Su-25 - Su25T or Su-39.
It was said that a training centre for NAVY would be built near Astrakhan in the South of Russia in 2011-12

[Bonza]

As for Voronezh, there is an aircraft plant there, but I don't know of any actual VVS unit stationed near Voronezh, other then the former 455th BAP flying Su-24M. No MiG-23s are currently active. In addition there are major weapon storage facilities near Voronezh. I'm not sure what you saw on google earth (links would be nice ;) ) but I would guess that if you did see MiG-23s, they were retired ones in storage on some airfield.

Maybe they were the Su-24 you mentioned. Wouldn't be too difficult to confuse the two on a satellite photo would it?

[Feanor]

Possible. I'm not sure what the current situation with the 455th BAP is, whether it's part of some new airbase based there, or what.... so it might not even be there anymore.