Abrams tank drivers

[ejectmailman]

just had a few questions in regards to the abrams tank, i have searched a fair bit but cant find definate answers. The questions are related to the australian army abrams, m1a1 i believe. Can anyone in the know please help?

1: Are they airconditioned? if not, how hot would it get in the drivers compartment during summer in darwin?

2: is the drivers hatch able to be opened at any time in regards to the turret position?

3: i heard the driver can crawl into the turret when the turret is in the 6 oclock postion, is this true?

4: if the tank flipped upside down, could the driver escape?

5: is there any situation in which the driver would not be able to escape from the tank?

6: is the seating position of the driver comfortable over long periods of time?

any other info in regards to being a driver would be very helpful. thanks

[sgtgunn]

Hi,

I served on M1A1 (HC) in the US Army during the 90's.


1: Are they airconditioned? if not, how hot would it get in the drivers compartment during summer in darwin?

The M1A1 is not. The M1A2 (SEP) has an air conditioning system of a sort - it's main purpose is to keep the electronics from over heating. The M1A1 does have a system of cooling vests, which we never used but I understand they are have only a limited effectiveness. Temps inside pretty much any armored vehcile can easily exceed 100F in hot weather.

2: is the drivers hatch able to be opened at any time in regards to the turret position?

Yes. It is normal procedure to drive with the hatch open in non tactical enviornments when good visibility is required. It is much easier to get out of the drivers hatch when the gun tube is over the back deck however.

3: i heard the driver can crawl into the turret when the turret is in the 6 oclock postion, is this true?

Yes, but it's more like 5 oclock if I recall correctly. When the tank is parked, the gun tube is left over the left rear corner (as facing the tank) of the hull - this allows the driver to exit through the turret, and the loaders hatch to be locked from the outisde (all other hatches have to be closed from the inside).

4: if the tank flipped upside down, could the driver escape?

Depends on the ground. If there is sufficient space between the ground and the front hull (assuming the tank is resting on the turret) it may be possible to squeeze out the driver's hatch.

5: is there any situation in which the driver would not be able to escape from the tank?

Yep. The front slope could be buried on a flipped tank. Turret could be pointed in the wrong direction and the driver's hatch jammed becuase of damage. You could "what if" this to death.

6: is the seating position of the driver comfortable over long periods of time?

Not bad. Best seat in the house. You actually recline in the hull which is nice. Shorter drivers often sleep in the driver's seat with the hatch closed instead of braving potentially bad weather.

any other info in regards to being a driver would be very helpful. thanks

If you have any other questions feel free to ask.

Adrian Gunn

[ejectmailman]

thanks mate your an absolute champion, ive been trying to find the answer to these questions for months. im joining the australian army very shortly as an abrams crewman. i have no trouble with confined spaces, just not very keen on getting trapped in them. but your answers make me feel a whole lot better in regards to that. i have a few more questions about the abrams if thats ok:

1: is the steering very hard? as in like having power steering on a car, is it easy to turn the handle bars?
2: with the twist throttle, is it on the left hand or right side or both sides?
3: what is the best and worst part of being a driver?

Thats about it really, i think you have already answered all of the questions i was chasing. :)

[sgtgunn]

1: is the steering very hard? as in like having power steering on a car, is it easy to turn the handle bars?

Steering is easy. It requires very little steering input to turn the tank, which is surprisingly nimble for it's size. At speed, you need to be careful not to over steer, as the tank will turn quite hard. The Abrams is pretty easy to drive, once you get used to the size, and limited visibility. The hardest thing to learn is to drive cross-country smoothly - banging into a dip in the ground at speed may just bounce you a bit in the driver's hole, but you'll slam the turret crew around hard and bouncing your TC off the .50 cal is never a good idea. The brakes are very strong and you can stop on a dime - but jamming the brakes will throw everyone in the turret forward hard.

2: with the twist throttle, is it on the left hand or right side or both sides?

Both, with the shifter "knob" in the middle of the control bar.


3: what is the best and worst part of being a driver?

Best part is that driving is a blast. You're out of the weather as well, when the TC and loader are standing up in the rain you're snug inside your hole. You also always have someplace dry and semi-comfortable to sleep. Sleeping up in the turret, while possible, is very uncomfortable.

Worst part is you're the person primarily responsible for hull & track maintenance - when ever you halt for any length of time you're out on the ground walking the track, checking fluids, etc. Lots of long hours in the motor pool.

"Death Before Dismount"

Adrian - former 19K CDAT (Computerized Dumb Assed Tanker)

[cavalrytrooper]

Can the Abrams be knocked of action when hit by an enemy round? What are the chances of survival if the vehicle runs over a thousand pound mine?

[DavidDCM]

Can the Abrams be knocked of action when hit by an enemy round?

Of course it can. The flank or rear are very vulnerable to a whole range of weapons. The front may only be penetrated by the most modern APFSDS rounds.

What are the chances of survival if the vehicle runs over a thousand pound mine?

Next to none.

[Waylander]

A thousand pound mine?
That's not a mine but a burried bomb and no vehicle is going to withstand such a destructive force.
A couple of burried 152mm shells is going to be enough...

[ejectmailman]

thanks for your help sgtgunn, are there any other abrams crew out there with any more info regarding being a driver. good things/bad things, daily life?

[Waylander]

You could wait for Eckherl if he drops by or just write a PM to him.
He also has alot of experience on the Abrams.
If you have any other questions related to being a tank crewman we have some others here who might also be able to help.
So feel free to ask. :)

Maybe as a side note. One shouldn't underestimate the amount of maintenance one has to do as a driver. These beasts are touchy little ladies which need constant care.
But as SgtGunn said.
It is amazing to drive such a tracked 1500hp giant! :cool:

Welcome to the world of Panzer crewmen! ;)

[sgtgunn]

Maybe as a side note. One shouldn't underestimate the amount of maintenance one has to do as a driver. These beasts are touchy little ladies which need constant care.
But as SgtGunn said.
It is amazing to drive such a tracked 1500hp giant! :cool:

Welcome to the world of Panzer crewmen! ;)

So true. I've split my time in the US Army between being an 11B Light Infantryman and a 19K M1 Armor Crewman. One of the biggest differences between the two jobs is how time is spent in garrison. As a light infantryman, once you come out of the field, you clean your weapons and gear ("Kit" for you Commonwealth types) and then chill. As a tanker, "recovery" from the field takes a good solid week of cleaning and maintenance. And even after that you still LIVE in the motor pool. Every day from 0900-1630 while in garrison you're up there working on your tank - cleaning, doing preventative maintenance, painting, cleaning again, etc. I swear if you let an M1 sit long enough, something will break on its own. I loved being in the field as a tanker or shooting gunnery, but garrison gets old quick.... The only relief from working on the tank is heading to the UCOFT (gunnery simulator) or SIMNET (platoon and company manuever simulator).

[ejectmailman]

how many times per month would you actually spend driving the abrams? would most of the time be spent maintaining and servicing it ? i thought up a few more questions for you sgtgunn or any other abrams crew. with the twist throttles, does twisting the left handle spin the left tracks and twisting the right handle spin the right track, or can you just twist either to drive in a straight line and turn by turning the handle bars?

my dad used to be a leopard tank crewman in australia here for about 6 years, so he has told me a fair bit about what its like to be in the armoured corps. he mentioned the hardest bit was changing the track pads, is this hard to do on the abrams? do you have the change them often?

[DavidDCM]

I'm not a Abrams-crewman but a (former) Leopard 2-crewman, but I guess it's not much different in regards to daily life.
Most of the time you'll spent in the motor pool maintaining your vehicles. That's basically your main task between two exercise runs. Somehow the things you need to fix take no end. I can hardly remember that we ever had finished everything and basically "nothing to do anymore". But next to maintaining your tanks you'll of course also have time for stuff like sports/physical exercises, going on the handgun range etc.

Yes, changing the track pads is a very exhausting job, not so much because it's a tough thing to do, but rather because a tank (let alone a platoon) has a darn lot of track pads and you need to replace every single one of them. But it's not like you do it every day. How often depends, not more than once in a month if I remember correctly.

[Waylander]

Much more exhausting is to actually replace the whole track.
And they don't send you full track which would be relatively easy to put on but they send you a big package full of parts.
Putting the track together is damn awfull...

[trev66]

Being an old Tank man BUT not Abrams trained can i suggest that you put your query on my website - www.black-berets.org on the message board and no doubt you will be pleasantly surprised.

Plus there are lots of photos of Centurions at home and Vietnam plus lots of leopards.

Hope to see your query in the near future.

TH

[sgtgunn]

how many times per month would you actually spend driving the abrams?

It depends on what your training schedule looks like. Taking an M1 company to the field to train for 2-3 weeks costs A LOT of money in fuel alone - not including wear and tear on the vehicles. When I was in Germany in the late 90's we typically shot gunnery twice a year and did 1 rotation a year at the Combined Manuever Training Ceneter. Gunnery usually took a couple of weeks with plenty of driving every day. A CMTC rotation could be anywhere from 3-4 weeks long, 90% of it spent in the field training in simulated war-time conditions. We might also go the field locally at Grafenwhor a few times a year from anywhere from a couples of days to to a week. The US Army has a lot of $$$ compared to many other armies and tends to train lavishly, but there were a couple of times when we did no training with the vehicles for 2-3 months at a time becuase of the fuel budget (Thanks to Mr. Clinton and his budget cuts). We spent a lot of time in the SIMNET and UCOFT simulators (which is cheap) as well.

would most of the time be spent maintaining and servicing it ?

Yep. A machine as massive, complex and heavy as an tank requires constant preventive maintenance. Parts tend to trickle in over time, so it always seemed like there was something to replace. In the US Army at least, most routine maintenance is done by the crews - the mechanics handling bigger issues like the powerpack or fire control system.

i thought up a few more questions for you sgtgunn or any other abrams crew. with the twist throttles, does twisting the left handle spin the left tracks and twisting the right handle spin the right track, or can you just twist either to drive in a straight line and turn by turning the handle bars?

The throttles only apply power to the tracks - they don't have any control over track direction. Twisting one side of the handlebar twists the other side as well. You can put the tank into pivot steer (on the gear shifter) and turning the tank left or right will cause it to pivot in place.

my dad used to be a leopard tank crewman in australia here for about 6 years, so he has told me a fair bit about what its like to be in the armoured corps. he mentioned the hardest bit was changing the track pads, is this hard to do on the abrams? do you have the change them often?

Changing track (as others here have already mentioned) is a pain in the ass, but typically the whole platoon would do one tank at a time which speeds things up. Each M1 has an electrical impact wrench, which makes replacing track pads easier. We found it was generally easier just yank the track completelly off, change all the pads that way, then put it back on the tank rather than try to change them on the tank. Roadwheels get changed a lot as well as the rubber wears off, and occasionally drive sprockets need changing too (which is a huge pain in the butt).

[Waylander]

And all of these track maintenance gets even more awfull when one has to do it at night, during a storm, standing in a ditch full of water...

Have fun! :D

[sgtgunn]

And all of these track maintenance gets even more awfull when one has to do it at night, during a storm, standing in a ditch full of water...

Have fun! :D

You're bringing back bad memories *lol*. I recall a 4 week rotation at the CMTC in Hohenfels when on the last day in "the box", during the last "battle" our tank threw track hard to the inside, coming off the drive sprocket and actually wrapping around the outside of the skirts all the way forward to the front idler wheel. Oh, in 18" of mud of course. It took two M88 recovery vehicles in tandem, 2 broken tow bars, and several hours of winching with the tow cable to drag us about 400m up a hill to the tank trail. Then we had to dig all of the caked on, compressed clay-like mud out from behind the skirts and off all of the road wheels (which took another couple of hours) before we could even think of putting the track on. We threw track around 10am and didn't get to the wash rack until after midnight - and we had to have the tank spotless and completely mud free by morning so we could load them back on the train at the Parsberg rail head. Ah, yes those were the days..... *lol*

[eckherl]

I have all of you beat,

Try driving through concentina wire in the middle of the night going about 20MPH and shearing off a final drive sprocket and landing into a 50ft ravine. That debacle cost us alot of bruises to the entire crew and about 48 hours worth of HAAARD back breaking labor, maintenance was so pissed at us that all of them in our maintenance section gave me the stink eye stare for weeks.

[Waylander]

Ooooh, that's bad.

I really hate concertina wire.
This stuff tends to lie everywhere on training areas because somebody was too lazy to clean up his stuff.
And you always run over it. It really ruins your day.

But managing to hit a ravine is really impressive... :D

[sgtgunn]

Funny how a purpose built steel re-enforced "anti-tank" obstacle, like a tetrahedron can be pretty easily crushed and run over by a modern MBT , but a forgotten, rusted spool of concertina wire left behind by sloppy engineers can wreak so much havoc.

*lol*

Adrian



Ooooh, that's bad.

I really hate concertina wire.
This stuff tends to lie everywhere on training areas because somebody was too lazy to clean up his stuff.
And you always run over it. It really ruins your day.

But managing to hit a ravine is really impressive... :D

[eckherl]

Ooooh, that's bad.

I really hate concertina wire.
This stuff tends to lie everywhere on training areas because somebody was too lazy to clean up his stuff.
And you always run over it. It really ruins your day.

But managing to hit a ravine is really impressive... :D

I have actually driven a few times into ravines, desert type terrian is full of them, most of the time if you are hauling ass cross country you do not see them until it is to late, this is where a good driver proves his worth to the crew.

[Marc 1]

I have actually driven a few times into ravines, desert type terrian is full of them, most of the time if you are hauling ass cross country you do not see them until it is to late, this is where a good driver proves his worth to the crew.

Experience only in buckets (M113's) but one of our greatest worries were tree stumps obscured by long grass - the sudden stop was errr...Interesting apparently. Never happened to me personnally , but you'd hear stories about exactly these sorts of impacts by crews doing battle runs up at Shoalwater Bay.

[old faithful]

Experience only in buckets (M113's) but one of our greatest worries were tree stumps obscured by long grass - the sudden stop was errr...Interesting apparently. Never happened to me personnally , but you'd hear stories about exactly these sorts of impacts by crews doing battle runs up at Shoalwater Bay.

LOL. thats why 5/7 RAR drivers look like boxers, knock out their front teeth on the dash!

[eckherl]

I could see that with the old reliable tin cans, terrible steering mechanism along with driver positioning doesn`t give a whole lot of reaction time. I saw what happened to a driver once that did not have his hatch locked in place during a FTX, OUCH!

[Waylander]

Usually all Leo gunners have small scars above their eyes because of that.
Once a tank of my platoon ran into a ditch and stopped violently out of full cross country speed.
The gunner's seat came loose and he got thrown through the crew compartment.
Went to the hospital with a concussion...

But hey, isn't it fun to tank... :D

[sgtgunn]

Something similiar happened to a guy in my company during a CMTC rotation. He was the loader, and was standing up in the loaders hatch manning the M240 MG and the tank slammed into a "dip" in the ground. The safety pin was not in the latch the holds the hatch locked open, and it came loose. The hatch slammed down on this guys head, knocking him down inside the turret. As he fell, he instinctively grabbed the edges of the hatch opening to stop his fall - the spring loaded hatch bounced back open - failed to latch - and slammed back down again on his hands, breaking 4 fingers on each hand. Ouch.

The moral of the story? Check those safety pins!

And yes - tanking is FUN!

Adrian


I could see that with the old reliable tin cans, terrible steering mechanism along with driver positioning doesn`t give a whole lot of reaction time. I saw what happened to a driver once that did not have his hatch locked in place during a FTX, OUCH!

[ejectmailman]

so finally today the army rang me. they have been looking for my paperwork for about 4 months and now they have found it everything can proceed. looks like im going to basic training in november and then on to school of armour afterwards. thats ok because im not the fittest at the moment so i have time to prepare. what sort of training should i be doing besides the regular pushups, running and sit ups. do you need to be super strong in any area to be a tank crewman?

also is there any other things i should be studying? like map reading or anything that could help me in regards to being a driver?

thanks heaps and keep the replies coming, they make interesting reading.

[eckherl]

so finally today the army rang me. they have been looking for my paperwork for about 4 months and now they have found it everything can proceed. looks like im going to basic training in november and then on to school of armour afterwards. thats ok because im not the fittest at the moment so i have time to prepare. what sort of training should i be doing besides the regular pushups, running and sit ups. do you need to be super strong in any area to be a tank crewman?

also is there any other things i should be studying? like map reading or anything that could help me in regards to being a driver?

thanks heaps and keep the replies coming, they make interesting reading.

For physical fitness you should be fine for what they are going to put you thru during basic training and ait, just be sure to on occasion to work with the 120mm dummy rounds (practice with HEAT because they are heavier), especially for timed loading.:D

Good land navigation skills is a plus also, especially when conducting mounted warfare, a good tank driver during a crew briefing can look at a map and get a good feel for what type of terrian that you will be moving thru and learn the contours of the terrian, my last tank driver was just amazing and knew actually how to use the terrian to our advantage to move and not present ourselves as a target, never had to yell at him for sky linning our tank. You can also assist your TC with land navigation when positioned at the loaders station.

[Marc 1]

so finally today the army rang me. they have been looking for my paperwork for about 4 months and now they have found it everything can proceed. looks like im going to basic training in november and then on to school of armour afterwards. thats ok because im not the fittest at the moment so i have time to prepare. what sort of training should i be doing besides the regular pushups, running and sit ups. do you need to be super strong in any area to be a tank crewman?

also is there any other things i should be studying? like map reading or anything that could help me in regards to being a driver?

thanks heaps and keep the replies coming, they make interesting reading.

I agree with eckherl, the army will ensure you get the fitness you need if necessary the hard way. So you don't have to do it the hard way, the fitter you are the better you'll cope - why make it hard? That said, don't do anything stupid and bust a knee or something else that's totally debilitating.

Feel free to bone up on some of the basics, but get the right advice first (nothing worse than learning the wrong thing because you found it on the net (the military uses Mils for instance not degrees when working with bearings). The army training systems are geared to teach someone everything they need to know from scratch, so if you are of average inteligence you should be fine. If you do a little extra work before going to Kapooka, don't be too quick to start answering all the questions - you'll just end up drawing unwanted attention to yourself from instructors (who may consider you a smartarse or know it all) and your now 'ex' mates.

Be on time, be a team player, have the answers if asked have a 'can do' attitude, don't lie and look after your mates. That's not a bad starting point.

Good luck, let us know how you get on.

[sgtgunn]

so finally today the army rang me. they have been looking for my paperwork for about 4 months and now they have found it everything can proceed. looks like im going to basic training in november and then on to school of armour afterwards. thats ok because im not the fittest at the moment so i have time to prepare. what sort of training should i be doing besides the regular pushups, running and sit ups. do you need to be super strong in any area to be a tank crewman?

also is there any other things i should be studying? like map reading or anything that could help me in regards to being a driver?

thanks heaps and keep the replies coming, they make interesting reading.


I can't comment specifically on the Australian Army's basic training - but if it is anything like the US Army's (I imagine there are a great number of similarities) the better cardiovascular shape you are in when you go, the easier your life is going to be during training. Build up your endurance, and do a lot of running (just don't go crazy and over train and hurt yourself). I would imagine a good basic understanding of the rank structure, organization, and customs and courtisies of the Australian Army will help as well. There is a fair bit of rote memorization in the first few weeks of US Army Basic Combat Training - rank, chain of command, general orders, army history, army values, etc. and knowing some of that stuff in advance certainly helps - but like the previous poster mentioned - don't show off. The nail that sticks up gets the hammer. The best thing your drill sergeant can say to you on graduation day is "Who the hell are you?".

Adrian

[Marc 1]

The best thing your drill sergeant can say to you on graduation day is "Who the hell are you?".

We used to have an expression for it - be a 'grey' man - just blend in. Basic training is not the place to start launching your career as the next Chief of the Defence Force. There will be plenty of time later in your career for that!

[ejectmailman]

thanks guys, i have been to kapooka (basic training) before back when i was in the army reserve. back then it was the same training as the full timers, but i think they have changed it now. not the nicest place i've ever been too but i have a pretty good understanding of what to expect. i have been out for too long so they are sending me back there again unfortunately. hopefully ill get up-squaded so i dont have to stay there as long.

i heard something about a vest that gets issued to abrams crew to keep them cool? sgtgunn mentioned it, but i also heard it from another army guy in australia. can anyone elaborate on how it works? its gets really hot up in darwin so hopefully they work well!

[eckherl]

thanks guys, i have been to kapooka (basic training) before back when i was in the army reserve. back then it was the same training as the full timers, but i think they have changed it now. not the nicest place i've ever been too but i have a pretty good understanding of what to expect. i have been out for too long so they are sending me back there again unfortunately. hopefully ill get up-squaded so i dont have to stay there as long.

i heard something about a vest that gets issued to abrams crew to keep them cool? sgtgunn mentioned it, but i also heard it from another army guy in australia. can anyone elaborate on how it works? its gets really hot up in darwin so hopefully they work well!

Yes, there is a cooling vest that you can plug into the gas particulate unit, you will really need this if Australia has issued the U.S spalling vests as standard issue to its crewmembers.

Should of been a little more specific inregards to the gas particulate unit, this is part of the NBC main system, each crew member has two hook up points, one for the vest and one for your NBC mask.

[ejectmailman]

Yes, there is a cooling vest that you can plug into the gas particulate unit, you will really need this if Australia has issued the U.S spalling vests as standard issue to its crewmembers.

Should of been a little more specific inregards to the gas particulate unit, this is part of the NBC main system, each crew member has two hook up points, one for the vest and one for your NBC mask.

so the vest works by pumping cold air through it? what sort of temperature drop can be achieved? if its really hot outside, im talking in the range of 35-40 degress celcius (not sure what this is in farenheit) would this vest keep you comfortable inside? have you ever been uncomfortably hot whilst inside the abrams?

[eckherl]

so the vest works by pumping cold air through it? what sort of temperature drop can be achieved? if its really hot outside, im talking in the range of 35-40 degress celcius (not sure what this is in farenheit) would this vest keep you comfortable inside? have you ever been uncomfortably hot whilst inside the abrams?

Pumping cool air is more like it, vest should at least drop the temperature to a tolerable level to perform you crew duties. And yes I have been uncomfortable inside a M1 series, especially after firing a whole combat load or going thru Mop 4 drills. People do not understand the amount of heat that gets generated inside of a tank turret during firing engagements, especially when you are firing alot of rounds, a combustable tank round burns at a average temperature of 3600 degrees plus throw in the factor of your FCS and turret power. Anyone would be happy to have a cooling vest and a over pressure system.

If you keep yourself in good physical shape and force your self and your team mates to drink plenty of water you will be just fine, there are other things that will be on your mind while you are in a hostile environment.:)