Has Pakistan exported Al-Khalid MBT?

[Roger Smith]

Anyone has any idea, if Pakistan has exported Al-Khalid MBT tanks to any country? :?

[gf0012-aust]

AFAIK - no. But the Saudis are evaluating it.

[Roger Smith]

AFAIK - no. But the Saudis are evaluating it.

Thanks for your response.

[Red aRRow]

The initial evaluation by the Saudis is complete and now some "sample" tanks have been sent to Saudi Arabia for more rigorous testing. Initial testing was done by Saudi Army inside Pakistan in desert conditions (reportedly near Bahawalpur). I think this tank would make a nice complement to the Saudi M1 Abrams.

[Roger Smith]

The initial evaluation by the Saudis is complete and now some "sample" tanks have been sent to Saudi Arabia for more rigorous testing. Initial testing was done by Saudi Army inside Pakistan in desert conditions (reportedly near Bahawalpur). I think this tank would make a nice complement to the Saudi M1 Abrams.

Saudis could easily buy 500 Al-Khalid MBT to boost Pakistan arms industry, if it wish so to do, as funds are not a factor for the Saudis.

[Red aRRow]

Depends on what is Saudi Arabia's requirement.

[Roger Smith]

Sometime back, I heard Bangladesh was interested in Al-Khalid MBT. Has anybody information on this aspect?

[joker]

I dont think Bangladesh will be making any more progress on that front. Although interestingly enough Pakistan is in talks with Turkey for a potential deal to upgrade and market the AK .

[Roger Smith]

I dont think Bangladesh will be making any more progress on that front. Although interestingly enough Pakistan is in talks with Turkey for a potential deal to upgrade and market the AK .

Great, I hope there is good news between Pakistan and Turkey defence pact on Al-Khalid.

[Faisal_Masud]

Be alerted please!
Pakistan and bangladesh have decided to increase the assistance in the field of defence.Bangladesh will buy many weapons from Pakistan and I am sure they will buy Al-Khalid tank too. :)

[Soldier]

Be alerted please!
Pakistan and bangladesh have decided to increase the assistance in the field of defence.Bangladesh will buy many weapons from Pakistan and I am sure they will buy Al-Khalid tank too. :)


Kindly post a link for this information. Besides I wonder from where is Bangldesh going to get money to buy Tanks from Pakistan. In Bangladeshi forums I have read, that they have to ground their aircrafts also because of fuel expense and maintainance. :roll

[The Watcher]

Saudi Arabia is also trial testing al-khalids since its best for desert and hot climate conditions.

http://www.defencetalk.com/news/publish/article_1053.shtml

[Roger Smith]

Saudi Arabia is also trial testing al-khalids since its best for desert and hot climate conditions.

http://www.defencetalk.com/news/publish/article_1053.shtml

I think it is high time the Saudis should support and boost Pakistan arms industry by buying at least 500 Al-Khalid tanks.

[mysterious]

good point there. Its hight time Islamic countries started helping each other out technologically, financially and morally!

[virtual]

At the momment Pakistan is not in a position to export Al-Khalid as they have to meet their own requirements first and annual production is also not very high.I read somewhere(dont remember link) that turkey is interested in investing money in project and increase annual production as they also wana get this tank but after some more improvements.I think Saudia will also do the same after evaluation of this tank.

[Red aRRow]

I think it is high time the Saudis should support and boost Pakistan arms industry by buying at least 500 Al-Khalid tanks.

I think that maybe a little over their requirement.

[mysterious]

Yes Turkish officials will be meeting their Pakistani counterparts to discuss the issue of Al-Khalid MBT. Its a well known issue in this forum :smokingc:

[Revival_786]

I'd say get more industries setup to export military hardware faster! :)

[Faisal_Masud]

That's no new news because Bangladesh Army members visited Pakistan for increasing the relation b/w Pak and Bangladesh..Pak will sell them on cheap rates. :)

[Soldier]

That's no new news because Bangladesh Army members visited Pakistan for increasing the relation b/w Pak and Bangladesh..Pak will sell them on cheap rates. :)

As far as I know Faisal, Bangladesh does not have a dime to fly their Airforce and you are talking about them buying AL-KHALID. Obviously Bangladesh has to be interested since it is a classic Fighting Machine, but I am not able to believe about the financial conditions of Bangladesh. Can you post any link even from Bangladeshi newspapers which may mention that government has allocated that much money or something of the type to show that Bangladesh is really going to buy it?

[The Watcher]

Al-Khalid sets new world record

By Our Defence Correspondent

ISLAMABAD—A 23-member Royal Saudi Land Forces evaluation team headed by Maj Gen Ahmed Bin Saeed Al-Shehri visited Pakistan for evaluation of indigenously manufactured products of Heavy Industries Taxila (HIT).

The evaluation team was warmly welcomed by the Chairman HIT, who gave them an exhaustive briefing on the capability of HIT and its potential for marketing sophisticated weapon systems suiting the dictates of modern warfare.

The Saudi team showed keen interest in state-of-the-art and pride of Pakistan Armour, Al-Khalid tank and APC Saad, and carried out intensive in-house technical evaluation and trials.

During the arduous trials under most inhospitable environments, the roaring Al-Khalid, a marvel of tank technology performed astoundingly well.

It is for the first time that a Main Battle tank (Al-Khalid) attained 100% hits at a distance of 4,000 meters and set an unprecedented record in tank technology. Al-Khalid also fired while moving, on a moving target at various ranges upto a distance of 3,000 meters and achieved 100% results.

The lethality and accuracy of the weapon stations of Al-Khalid, its high power to weight ratio and manoeuvrability demonstrated in the most hostile terrain speaks volumes of its agility and combat capability to challenge any tank of the world. Saudi Master Gunner, Subedar Major Yahya Bin Ahmed Atif achieved the rare feat of hitting a bulls eye at extreme ranges with 100% accuracy and achieved record firing results with a few days training only, indicative of user friendliness of Tank Al-Khalid.

The delegation was highly impressed with the performance of tank Al-Khalid and APC Saad during arduous trials. The new generation, APC Saad of Pakistan Armed forces has also been totally manufactured in Pakistan with a vision to meet the demands of 21st century battlefield.
Pakistan is rightfully proud of its engineers and technicians who envisioned, designed and manufactured such combat multipliers, giving its Armed Forces the power punch and capability to face any challenge to its national security.

-Source: Dawn/Jang

Soldier, it doesn't take same amount of money to maintain fighter jets and Tanks. I am sure Bangladesh can afford tanks and many Bengladesis want to see this tank in their armed forces.

[dabrownguy]

Al-Khalid sets new world record

By Our Defence Correspondent

It is for the first time that a Main Battle tank (Al-Khalid) attained 100% hits at a distance of 4,000 meters and set an unprecedented record in tank technology. Al-Khalid also fired while moving, on a moving target at various ranges upto a distance of 3,000 meters and achieved 100% results.

The Al-Khalid I though broke a world record but it was its own record so this is useless. I still doubt this tank which is a hype much like the US patriot missile defence system. :(

[tatra]

As has happened with a navy ship, the Saoudi's could fund the purchase of tanks from Pakistan for Bangladesh, particularly if Pakistan were to provide some kind of discount to Bangladesh. :idea2

[Red aRRow]

The Al-Khalid I though broke a world record but it was its own record so this is useless. I still doubt this tank which is a hype much like the US patriot missile defence system.


What???? :? :?
It's the first time that an MBT has broken that record. The Al-Khalid in the brackets shows that it's the Al-Khalid they are talking about.

[mysterious]

dabrownguy, if you read the posts and evidence given by other members carefully, it would clear your mind of any doubts about Al-Khalid's capabilities and features. Its not about what you "think" it is, its about what "is" there in front of u to analyse and put up a strong argument against. :cop

[WebMaster]

Clearly sad attempt by dabrownguy to flame this thread. Grow up guys and read the posts carefully!

[Roger Smith]

Sometime back, I read in the media that Bangladesh was showing interest in Al-Khalid MBT.

The best way to promote the sale of these MBT are;
1) For promotion give away 10 to 20 tanks foc and make them dependent on it.
2) Slash price to compete against Chinese T-59 and other models. Chinese prices vary on political ground, so it is hard to compete against them.
3) Sale force must be aggressive with kick-back and commissions in mind.

That is my thoery to promote the sale of MBT.

[mysterious]

I dont think Pak. will lower its MBT prices to compete with Chinese MBT exports. Pak and China dont tend to cut each other's share in such things as far as I've seen. Plus, I dont think Pakistan is dying for Bangladeshi love to give away 10-20 tanks to them for no cost. Any arguements and comments are welcome :smokingc:

[Roger Smith]

I dont think Pak. will lower its MBT prices to compete with Chinese MBT exports. Pak and China dont tend to cut each other's share in such things as far as I've seen. Plus, I dont think Pakistan is dying for Bangladeshi love to give away 10-20 tanks to them for no cost. Any arguements and comments are welcome :smokingc:


You do not know China, they dump their stuff so cheap in African countries. During Iran and Iraq war, China was the only country supplying tanks to both countries Iran and Iraq. Chinese policy is to dump their products at any cost and work into the country politically.

Pakistan has a good chance to sell Al-Khalid MBT in many Muslim countries, but it has to be flexible on the price factor.

[mysterious]

I didnt say anything about China dumping or not. I said, Pak. and China will try and avoid any disagreement over weapons trade as to who sells what to whom. That kinda thing! :smokingc:

[The Watcher]

Countries will buy Al-Khalid based on its performance and will pay the price Pakistan asks. Would India drop Arjun's price by 20-40 % (below cost) when it comes into production just so that it can sell it to other countries? I don't think so. Al-Khalid wasn't really in service or in full production few years ago and some countries were talking about acquiring some. The tank proved its self on trial grounds and will also prove during combat.

:pak

[Roger Smith]

I didnt say anything about China dumping or not. I said, Pak. and China will try and avoid any disagreement over weapons trade as to who sells what to whom. That kinda thing! :smokingc:

Arms trading is a cut throat business and too much competition with alot of kick back or commission to the middle man or agent. To be a gentleman in this business is having no business. :smokingc:

[Roger Smith]

Countries will buy Al-Khalid based on its performance and will pay the price Pakistan asks. Would India drop Arjun's price by 20-40 % (below cost) when it comes into production just so that it can sell it to other countries? I don't think so. Al-Khalid wasn't really in service or in full production few years ago and some countries were talking about acquiring some. The tank proved its self on trial grounds and will also prove during combat.

:uk

I do not think India intention is to export their Arjun MBT, it is meant for their own military consumption or need.

Lately, India has entered in exporting arms by obtaining orders for ALH Dhruv from Nepal and USA. :smokingc:

[saraab]

hey ppl , isnt china involved in Al-Khlid's program

:? :?

[ullu]

Al-Khalid tank to be offered for sale

KARACHI: Pakistan would showcase indigenously built Al-Khalid Tank for sale in the upcoming third IDEAS - International Defense Exhibition and Seminars - scheduled in September 2004.

"The tank has been handed over to Pakistan Army. So we can offer to sell by IDEAS event," Major General Syed Ali Hamid, Director General Defense Export Promotion Organisation told newsmen after chairing IDEAS Steering Committee meeting at a local hotel.

"Al-Khalid is country’s indigenous product and meets all international standards. It would definitely attract foreign buyers," he added.

DEPO Chief disclosed the organisation also planned to sell JF-17 Thunder - the indigenously produced fighter aircraft - by 2006.

"We believe due to its cost effectiveness, excellent operational capabilities, combat potential and many more advantages it would attract potential buyers internationally," Gen Hamid added.

He said after completion of flight-testing and weapons qualifications, initially a small batch of JF-17 aircraft would be produced in the first quarter of 2006.

"Regular serial production would start immediately after the completion of small batch production in small year," he elaborated.

DG DEPO claimed the country’s defense products export had crossed US$100 million mark and hoped: "It would go further up in years to come."

He said the IDEAS 2004 would help the DEPO in exploring new markets for Pak defense products.

"We are actually focussing third world countries as they have been potential buyers of our products," he said.

The third IDEAS is scheduled from September 14 to 17 at Karachi Expo Centre. The event designed after each two years, last held in September 2002.

Asim Siddiquee, Chief of Pegasus Consultacy - organisers of the event - said delegates from 65 countries were due to attend the IDEAS 2004 and over 100 local and foreign firms would showcase their defense products.

He said the high turnout of the official delegations at IDEAS 2002 not only reaffirmed the significance of the event itself, but it also highlighted Pakistan’s pivotal role as the centre point for interaction between the world leaders, especially from Asia, Africa and Middle East.

Earlier, at the meeting high officials from all the three armed forces, ministries of defence, foreign affairs, commerce and city government attended the meeting.
http://jang.com.pk/thenews/

So there you go peeps. ;)

[mysterious]

Thnx ullu. That was very informative. That should clear the mind off the doubts if Al-Khalid's been exported or not. :smokingc:

[Roger Smith]

Thnx ullu. That was very informative. That should clear the mind off the doubts if Al-Khalid's been exported or not. :smokingc:

Now, we have to wait till September, 2004 to know the outcome of export! :smokingc:

[Indus]

Is al-khalid better than T-98.. if so, why is china wasting its time w/ T-98..

[The Watcher]

China has its own requirements and pakistan has its own. T-98 may have some abilities not found in alkhalid, alkhalid may have some which are not found in t98. ;)

[mysterious]

Well obviously, cuz China's MBT operational terrain is different than Pakistan's!

[umair]

Well obviously, cuz China's MBT operational terrain is different than Pakistan's!Right!
Terraine Pakistan: soft sandy desset in Sindh and Southern Punjab to moderately hilly plains in central Punjab.( where most probably any armour battles wil take place)
Terraine China: marshy swampy areas around the Formossa Straits and Taiwan.

[mysterious]

Even Pakistan has marshy areas in the lower Punjab area.

[umair]

Even Pakistan has marshy areas in the lower Punjab area.


Where buddy I've travelled allover Punjab? :?
Mebbe u could enlighten me! :D :P

[mysterious]

Havent been all over Punjab but heard from a lot of people that it is marshy a bit in the lower lying areas towards the border. But then again, could be a hoax!

[SABRE]

if bangladesh is thinking of grounding its Air Force than they would probably be thinking about incresing ground defence as a substitute. I think because of this Bangladesh would be interested in Tanks & who can provide them world class tanks at cheap rate other than Pakistan. AK Tank is ideal for them and other Asian countries.

[WebMaster]

Both Pakistan and Bangladesh need to build bridges between them and what could be better way to build bridges than trade and cooperating in helping each other's economies grow.

:banglade: :pak

[Roger Smith]

Both Pakistan and Bangladesh need to build bridges between them and what could be better way to build bridges than trade and cooperating in helping each other's economies grow.

:banglade: :pak


I thoroughly agree to WM aforementioned statement, all countries should live in peace and harmony. :smokingc:

[Revival_786]

Agreed with WebMaster ;)

Is the terrain really that different in Pakistan and China? The AK can go into water etc. and would its tracks, machinery, etc. be really that different that it couldn't operate as well in swamps than on hills/deserts? :)

btw Indus - I like your "Omnipresent" line lol

[Roger Smith]

Anyone has any idea, if Pakistan has exported Al-Khalid MBT tanks to any country. :?

[saraab]

i dont think the exports have been made as yet. Because as some of you might remember, pakistan army odered about 300 some time back.I dont think those have been dilivered completely.

Although there MAY be some orders placed by Saudi Arabia, Bangladesh etc.

[asif_dhaka]

I dont think that Bangladesh is gonna acquire any tanks in the immediate future......unless they are given at a really cheap rate. There are just too many rivers for tanks to be effectively used in Bangladesh. The only reason why Bangladesh military shows interest in buying stuff is for political reasons. And the comment bout airforce planes being grounded due to lack of fuel is not exactly true....while bangladesh may be a poor country, it does have the money to keep its airforce running to some degree....plus i live beside Dacca airport and i c the Mig-29s fly low over my house all the time. :)

[gf0012-aust]

ex-Russian tanks aren't exactly expensive at the moment. Complete T-72's are on the market for USD $50k. They'd almost give them away.

[Roger Smith]

ex-Russian tanks aren't exactly expensive at the moment. Complete T-72's are on the market for USD $50k. They'd almost give them away.

I know ex-Russian tanks are reasonable priced, but US$ 50k is quite reasonable. I assume the price quoted is just for the tank in running condition and without any frill. :?

GF002, I must say............you have great knowledge on military aspects. :smokingc:

Thank mate! ;)

[Maruf]

Dear members,

Bangladesh has never shown any interest in Al khalid recently. But the govt. is in the process of buying 48 modern tanks with 125mm guns this year. Initially the govt. has allocated $100ml for the project but the allocation could reach more than that after the final deal is signed. Tanks from South Korea, China, Ukraine, Germany, and Russia are being evaluated. These tanks will be stationed in the northern part of Bangladesh, which is by the way, the most suitable ground for tank battle.

The above report was in the following Bengali newspapers:

www.jugantor.com

The specific issue where the news was published may be found by looking in the archive section.

The govt. has recently made public its purchase plan for the navy. The link is as follows:

[Admin: Read the rules, no link to other forums of any sort. If you have a news article related to this please post it with its original source. Thank you! ]

[adsH]

Dear members,

Bangladesh has never shown any interest in Al khalid recently. But the govt. is in the process of buying 48 modern tanks with 125mm guns this year. Initially the govt. has allocated $100ml for the project but the allocation could reach more than that after the final deal is signed. Tanks from South Korea, China, Ukraine, Germany, and Russia are being evaluated. These tanks will be stationed in the northern part of Bangladesh, which is by the way, the most suitable ground for tank battle.

The above report was in the following Bengali newspapers:

www.jugantor.com

The specific issue where the news was published may be found by looking in the archive section.

The govt. has recently made public its purchase plan for the navy. The link is as follows:




YEah thats realy great, if the Bengalis don't think the Al khalid is up to there standards then who are the pakistanis to debate that. the fact is the Alkhalids are the same thing as the chinese an ukraine tanks the Tank was built in a consortium. and naval vessel i think pakistan subs would be too expensive for Bangladesh old russian subs would be more reasonable its not only the initial cost the entire maintainace repair cost of the subs and surface ships. the augusta 90 B are abit too much for the needs of Bangladesh navy. while the guided missile boats and now the frigates will be built in pakistan i think the Pakistanis are too busy building there own ships for there needs!!

[Winter]

YEah thats realy great, if the Bengalis don't think the Al khalid is up to there standards then who are the pakistanis to debate that. the fact is the Alkhalids are the same thing as the chinese an ukraine tanks the Tank was built in a consortium. and naval vessel i think pakistan subs would be too expensive for Bangladesh old russian subs would be more reasonable its not only the initial cost the entire maintainace repair cost of the subs and surface ships. the augusta 90 B are abit too much for the needs of Bangladesh navy. while the guided missile boats and now the frigates will be built in pakistan i think the Pakistanis are too busy building there own ships for there needs!!

:?

I thought maintanence of Russian hardware and equipment, such as vessels was particularly stressful in that regard...

Is Pakistani naval shipbuilding capacity really at a full production level, just enough to cater for domestic needs?

I don't think Bangladesh would seriously be looking at a new submarine force...It is expensive and unnecessary. Surely the surface fleet is sufficient? In the slightest (stressed) chance of Bangladesh actually procuring new submarines, it would be two or three of the export Kilo-class. Failing that, either Agostas, most likely from Pakistan or an item like the Dutch Walrus, should they be decommisioned a decade down the line. But the whole scenario is unlikely.

[mysterious]

Some 'sensible' soul tell me as to why "Bangladesh"needs high-tech tanks and naval vessels?!?!?! Who are they building up their defense against? Not to sound rude or something but from the statistics and analysis that I have read, if any of Bangladesh's neighbours wanted to attack it, it would be a walk-over for them. Bangladesh should rather use its meagre resources to fuel up prosperity among the population! The country is so vulnerable to floods and storms every year that I have a hard time thinking as to when do people get to take a break from these kinda hardships of life over there?!?!? :? And militarily, they should just concentrate on keeping a good internal force that is capable of countering internal security threats and help protect the country's borders. Thats about it. :smokingc:

[adsH]

Some 'sensible' soul tell me as to why "Bangladesh"needs high-tech tanks and naval vessels?!?!?! Who are they building up their defense against? Not to sound rude or something but from the statistics and analysis that I have read, if any of Bangladesh's neighbours wanted to attack it, it would be a walk-over for them. Bangladesh should rather use its meagre resources to fuel up prosperity among the population! The country is so vulnerable to floods and storms every year that I have a hard time thinking as to when do people get to take a break from these kinda hardships of life over there?!?!? :? And militarily, they should just concentrate on keeping a good internal force that is capable of countering internal security threats and help protect the country's borders. Thats about it. :smokingc:

yeah thats what i thought Bangladesh does not need that sort of armaments but it is always a good idea for any country to be defensively ready. Even if the bengalis were looking for pak surface ships they would not be able to get them i think with new chinese TOT Frigates contract and other local contract, there limited dry docks would have there hand full of work!!

[BruteGorilla]

AFIK, AL Khalid Project is in trouble. They have no supliers for Powerpacks (mired in a court case). Ukranians haven't suplied engines etc. Some of the pre production tanks are in service. Also purchasing T-82's (Not T-84 Pakistan dosen't have it) have dried up funding sources.

[umair]

AFIK, AL Khalid Project is in trouble. They have no supliers for Powerpacks (mired in a court case). Ukranians haven't suplied engines etc. Some of the pre production tanks are in service. Also purchasing T-82's (Not T-84 Pakistan dosen't have it) have dried up funding sources.


Research before posting! AK is not in trouble, no dried up funds, another batch of T-84sarrived a few months ago(numbering about 250-300) at Karachi,T-82 license produced by HIT.We actually don't exactly go about announcing our procurements.

[Roger Smith]

AFIK, AL Khalid Project is in trouble. They have no supliers for Powerpacks (mired in a court case). Ukranians haven't suplied engines etc. Some of the pre production tanks are in service. Also purchasing T-82's (Not T-84 Pakistan dosen't have it) have dried up funding sources.


Research before posting! AK is not in trouble, no dried up funds, another batch of T-84sarrived a few months ago(numbering about 250-300) at Karachi,T-82 license produced by HIT.We actually don't exactly go about announcing our procurements.


Umair

I know you have good connection with PAF, Pakistan automobile industry as some of your relatives are involved in the same.

I have heard some rumours similar to BG that Ukraine stop supplying power-plant of AK to Pakistan due to Russian pressure.

Take care! :smokingc:

[adsH]

HIT is manufacturing the Engine the Ukrainians initially provided the engine according to the contract and terms of R&D but now they are making them at home i don't see how Brute force think the AK is trouble Pak Army has approved the AK they were even used in Kargil conflict and now the Saudi are interested teh Pak Army has 300 plus on order apparently they have slow production.