Soviet Typhoon (Akula) SSBN

[nevidimka]

I remember reading that this Submarine is very quiet due to its enormous size. How true is that? How quiet was this submarine compared to western SSBN's in the 80's? and how quiet is it compared to today's standard?

But this Sub was built to withstand a direct Torpedo hit and still function. So how much emphasis did the Soviets give on quieting the sub?

http://www.military-heat.com/29/typhoon-class-submarine/

[drandul]

Actually that is not true. Major noise source for nuclear submarines are reactor cooling pumps and steam turbines. But that is not a big issue. Such submarines not suppose to go in an area where it can be detected. It can even stay in port to launch its missiles. So major idea is to hide it somewhere to increase time of detection in case of any major "event". Time just have to be long enough for missile attack

[dragonfire]

There are some nomenclature related confusion wrt Typhoon Class and Akula/Schuka Class

But the larger Typhoons were supposed to be very silent and multiple hulls - upto 3 parallel hulls - i doubt if a torpedo hit happened the sub would be able to function as usual instead it would be better to say it could survive as the hull system gave a safety from potential flooding arising from one area of the hull

You would also be intesrested to know tht though the Typhoon class has been mostly retired a new sub at the same length os around 170 mts is been developed as the Borei class and apparently the new sub is even more silent wht with the use of pump - jet propulsion etc

[nevidimka]

Actually that is not true. Major noise source for nuclear submarines are reactor cooling pumps and steam turbines. But that is not a big issue. Such submarines not suppose to go in an area where it can be detected. It can even stay in port to launch its missiles. So major idea is to hide it somewhere to increase time of detection in case of any major "event". Time just have to be long enough for missile attack

This is a huge sub, with multiple hulls, ( I thought there were only 2 ). Maybe due to this enormous size, they were able to better keep the vessel silent? With more areas of dampening its noise?

[nevidimka]

There are some nomenclature related confusion wrt Typhoon Class and Akula/Schuka Class

But the larger Typhoons were supposed to be very silent and multiple hulls - upto 3 parallel hulls - i doubt if a torpedo hit happened the sub would be able to function as usual instead it would be better to say it could survive as the hull system gave a safety from potential flooding arising from one area of the hull

You would also be intesrested to know tht though the Typhoon class has been mostly retired a new sub at the same length os around 170 mts is been developed as the Borei class and apparently the new sub is even more silent wht with the use of pump - jet propulsion etc

There is currently in active duty, being used to test the new Bulava SLBM's, and I know about the Borei, but it is not the size of the typhoon's.
Also regarding the typhoon's I thought there were only 2 parallel hulls.

It would be nice if there is a better documentary on this sub, with pictures of its insides. this is after all the biggest sub in the world!. hope we get to see more b4 it is retired forever.

[Feanor]

Iirc one of the Typhoons has been converted either to a research vessel or a special forces submarine depending on who to believe.

[nevidimka]

From wiki, it said 1 was operational, as we all know, and 2 was in reserve, due to the high operating costs. Maybe they took it from the reserved sub?

Interesting to note, the 1 operational 1 is also the 1st Typhoon sub to be launched ans built. Its the subsequent ones that were scrapped or kept in reserve. I wonder why? Normally the latest would be the 1 in operation due to it being very new.

Also regarding the costs, how much does it take to operate 1 a typhoon sub in a year? Such magnificent subs, but not operated due to cost. What a shame.

[SkolZkiy]

Feanor I've read that those 2 in reserve would be modificated for special-operations or for carriers of winged missiles - can you show any link to this?
Iirc one of the Typhoons has been converted either to a research vessel or a special forces submarine depending on who to believe.

[nevidimka]

There is also suggestions to turn the typhoon into a cargo vessel with capacity of 15 tonnes.

[dragonfire]

There is also suggestions to turn the typhoon into a cargo vessel with capacity of 15 tonnes.

Wasnt this idea dropped later, also the cost for the per tonnage shipped would be high as the sub itself was very costly to operate, unless we are talking about using the sub for illegal smuggling :)

[Lostfleet]

In 1998 there was this website which asked for grants up to 6 million dollars, to bring the Thypoon to NY and turn into a museum/restaurant/club, does anyone remember this website?

I don't know what would they do with the active subs, but I would even go to Murmansk just to see one of them as a museum ( thanks to Red October)

[nevidimka]

I doubt Russia would release those subs now. Any high capability weapon system in their possession is very valuable right now. If they cant complete the Borei, they could always bring back the typhoons to make up the number. Borei's carry 16 missiles, while the typhoon can carry 24, and that equivalent to 1.5 Borei's.

[Feanor]

You're assuming a situation where Russia does have the missiels, but doesn't have the subs? Doesn't look likely. In the Borei/Bulava tandem, the weak spot is the Bulava.

[nevidimka]

No, I'm assuming that in case Russia had a $$$ crunch and had to stop building the Borei, it could refinance the typhoon instead, and the typhoon need not necessarily carry the BUlava, but carry the SLBM's it was built to carry. The Stiletto's? has been re validated through the latest launch and can be kept in service for 20? years.

IIRC, there are 2 more typhoon's in reserve, and by missile count, it would make 3 Borei subs. Wouldn't it be cheaper to reactivate these 2 subs than to build the 3 borei's from scratch?

[Wall83]

I doubt Russia would release those subs now. Any high capability weapon system in their possession is very valuable right now. If they cant complete the Borei, they could always bring back the typhoons to make up the number. Borei's carry 16 missiles, while the typhoon can carry 24, and that equivalent to 1.5 Borei's.

The Typhoon class carries 20 SLBMs, not 24.
And I doubt that Russia could get the two Typoons that are in reserv back in shape for duty. The first Typhoon that now works as a testbed for the new Bulava missile system was in repairs and modifications for over 10 years before returning to active "duty". A think that they just are keeping the other typhoons around to make the numbers look god. And possibly...returning them as mine warfare units or SSGNs.

[crobato]

This is a huge sub, with multiple hulls, ( I thought there were only 2 ). Maybe due to this enormous size, they were able to better keep the vessel silent? With more areas of dampening its noise?

Size is a factor because a larger size can dampen sound plus more places to put things for absorbing noise. However, noise comes from all sorts of factors and not just size. The fact that this sub comes with two of everything---two reactors, two sets of coolant circuit pumps, two sets of turbines, two sets of reduction gears, two driving shafts, two propellers also means the potential to create 2x noise compared to having a single set of everything.

[Uhu]

Also regarding the typhoon's I thought there were only 2 parallel hulls.

Two large diameter pressure hulls parallel, one smaller inbetween and above (the bulge under the sail), another small one at the aft (stearing) and a fith one for the torpedo tubes (I think only for the 533mm, but I'm not sure). And of course a non-pressure outer hull to streamline everything.

[Uhu]

IIRC, there are 2 more typhoon's in reserve, and by missile count, it would make 3 Borei subs. Wouldn't it be cheaper to reactivate these 2 subs than to build the 3 borei's from scratch?
Initial cost might be lower but operational cost (manning!) of those old vessels are very high.

Also it's important to have some continuity in sub designing and building. This industry doesn't come out of nowhere when you need it but it will go to nowhere when you don't keep it in business.

[KGB]

Until the Bulava's completed, the typhoons have no missiles. Their original missile systems reached the end of their service lives before the replacement missile was finished. The current Delta IV's are a stopgap solution until then.

I think the reason the Typhoon was made so big was because Soviet SLBMs were larger. The ohio class carries roughly the same number of SLBMs.

[SkolZkiy]

Until the Bulava's completed, the typhoons have no missiles. Their original missile systems reached the end of their service lives before the replacement missile was finished. The current Delta IV's are a stopgap solution until then.

I think the reason the Typhoon was made so big was because Soviet SLBMs were larger. The ohio class carries roughly the same number of SLBMs.

It was big because this was the first experience of SLBM on a solid fuel and it became big =) and it was made in a hurry and not all measures to reduce it size were done.
There are also several Delta III subs. Only current Typhoon Dmitriy Donskoi will have Bulava - other 2 subs are waiting for a decision.

[macman]

Had heard that 2 were to be converted to guided missile/special forces subs, the same as what the US has done with some of the Ohio class subs...

[nevidimka]

It was big because this was the first experience of SLBM on a solid fuel and it became big =) and it was made in a hurry and not all measures to reduce it size were done.
There are also several Delta III subs. Only current Typhoon Dmitriy Donskoi will have Bulava - other 2 subs are waiting for a decision.

What was the hurry? Doesnt look like a sub that was built in a hurry.

[SkolZkiy]

In all open russian sources is said that sub was delayed so they were in a harry but real reasons I don't know of cause - may be there was a plan and designers and builders were being late.

[nevidimka]

No, that is not the reason why it is big. I saw a new article on BUlava, that said the Typhoon's were big because the solid feuled SLBM's they carried were huge compared to US version SLBM. Hence the different in size between the typhoon and Ohio class SSBN.

[SkolZkiy]

Nevedimka and what I've said in my previous post??
It was big because this was the first experience of SLBM on a solid fuel and it became big =) and it was made in a hurry and not all measures to reduce it size were done.

[nevidimka]

Nevedimka and what I've said in my previous post??

HAHA!, you are right SkolZkiy, I just saw your 1 post above, and made the mistake. :)

[Zzims]

Admirably this submarine radiates a sort of fearsome aura when spoken about. Size and considerable payload of SLBMs. Sad to see them go. How well was the deterrent produce by the Typhoons?