Possible sale of F-16s to Iraq

[Huron_Desolatio]

According to the Wall Street Journal, the Iraqi government wants to buy 36 "advanced" F-16s.

Nothing about which variant they are asking for, other than "advanced", but I doubt they would get Block 50/52, right?

http://www.defensenews.com/story.php?i=3709643&c=AME&s=AIR

[ROCK45]

Iraq sure has the money and Block-50 would be cleared but just not with the best weapons packages and radar. It would still be a very modern platform and able to hold its own against any aircraft in the region. Having the same fighters as the USAF and other NATO countries just makes sense as far as maintenance, training, weapons, and easier to support overall. In time it would give the Iraqi AF once trained a good air to ground platform and also a capable fighter.

[DefConGuru]

10 bucks they get MLU's

[ROCK45]

Hi DefConGuru
You may be right but compared to what other have in the region still a better platform overall. Lets assume the US stay's in Iraq tensions with Syria and Iran are still an issue at least for US forces there, MLU Vipers still would do well against low or mid level Fulcrums. Just my opinion but I don't hold a lot of faith in Iran's F-14s. Flying a bunch of old Tomcat's in a straight line doesn't mean then can pull G's or fly for anytime in afterburners and be useful fighters. Even if a few AIM-54's or some copy of one were still operational shooting one against a Viper with AWACS support would be 100,000 to 1 shot. If Iraq could get pilots trained quickly and using US or other options for ground support and maintenance needs Iraq could hold it's own up to a point.

Do you think Iraq's government and Turkey's government could work something out concerning the F16s? I don't know enough about the two governments to know if something like that could be worked out. Just seems to make sense doesn't Turkey have F-16 production capabilities up to a certain level? With US government approval maybe some type of deal could be worked out?

Looking over Poland's situation maybe I'm rushing this process too much? Maybe this is a solid five to six year process but it's not like Iran/Syria's buying advance Flankers or any J-10s yet right.

[DefConGuru]

Hi DefConGuru
You may be right but compared to what other have in the region still a better platform overall. Lets assume the US stay's in Iraq tensions with Syria and Iran are still an issue at least for US forces there, MLU Vipers still would do well against low or mid level Fulcrums. Just my opinion but I don't hold a lot of faith in Iran's F-14s. Flying a bunch of old Tomcat's in a straight line doesn't mean then can pull G's or fly for anytime in afterburners and be useful fighters. Even if a few AIM-54's or some copy of one were still operational shooting one against a Viper with AWACS support would be 100,000 to 1 shot. If Iraq could get pilots trained quickly and using US or other options for ground support and maintenance needs Iraq could hold it's own up to a point.

Do you think Iraq's government and Turkey's government could work something out concerning the F16s? I don't know enough about the two governments to know if something like that could be worked out. Just seems to make sense doesn't Turkey have F-16 production capabilities up to a certain level? With US government approval maybe some type of deal could be worked out?

Looking over Poland's situation maybe I'm rushing this process too much? Maybe this is a solid five to six year process but it's not like Iran/Syria's buying advance Flankers or any J-10s yet right.

Rock45,

For some reason I just can't see a Turkey-Iraq deal other than maybe upgrading them in the future to block 50 standard, if the Iraqi's request it. It is much more economical for Iraq to deal directly with the US though as certain areas of the procurement will no doubt be subsidized in some way, along with the rest of the American equipment being inducted. And yes I think this is a longer process with possibly more F-16s being purchased later on for 3-4 active squadrons. F-16 MLU provides more than enough to counter old F-14's and MiG's in the area.

[yess]

hmmm.. for sure US defence companies are making huge money of iraq war.. they apparently offered Abrams worth billions of dollars now F-16s worth billions of dollars what next?

[ROCK45]

The tanks sale and maybe Vipers sales are interesting and yes may run into the billions of dollars but we still rather have business investments. The service industries, hotel, food, media, construction, rail ways, roads, airline, etc all make much more then arms sales do. This is where the real money is and there be forty or more other countries/governments falling over themselves to get in once things become safe, and not just the Americans. The key is how bad do they want it? Its going to take brave leadership to stop the internal fighting and push out the outsiders. For the people of Iraq to stop listening to groups telling who they should kill because look where that's getting them. The oil base is there and there's billions of dollars of start up money but it comes down to leadership and the will of the people. The military will need to be stronger and better equipped for protection but Iraq could be so much more if it were safe from the senseless killings.

[DefConGuru]

The tanks sale and maybe Vipers sales are interesting and yes may run into the billions of dollars but we still rather have business investments. The service industries, hotel, food, media, construction, rail ways, roads, airline, etc all make much more then arms sales do. This is where the real money is and there be forty or more other countries/governments falling over themselves to get in once things become safe, and not just the Americans. The key is how bad do they want it? Its going to take brave leadership to stop the internal fighting and push out the outsiders. For the people of Iraq to stop listening to groups telling who they should kill because look where that's getting them. The oil base is there and there's billions of dollars of start up money but it comes down to leadership and the will of the people. The military will need to be stronger and better equipped for protection but Iraq could be so much more if it were safe from the senseless killings.

10 bucks that in the coming years the defense industry overshadows service, tourism and media combined.

[ROCK45]

DefConGuru you may be right it they can't get their act together and stop the stupid killings. As a outsider I rather buy shares in a Iraqi oil company three years from now as an investor and make the money on that black gold under the sand. But from what I'm seeing just tell me where to mail the check to.

[swerve]

10 bucks that in the coming years the defense industry overshadows service, tourism and media combined.
What, back to WW2 levels of military spending as a share of US GDP?

BTW, what do you define as "service". Tourism & media are defined as services in national accounts.

[DefConGuru]

What, back to WW2 levels of military spending as a share of US GDP?

BTW, what do you define as "service". Tourism & media are defined as services in national accounts.

For Iraq not the US. I was just using examples given above to compare expenditure vs revenue.

[Firehorse]

I think Chavez should offer his F-16s to Iraq, if only for parts! And actually, the US contractors could upgrade them once they aren't in Venezuela. Win-win for everyone!

[ROCK45]

Firehorse
I think Chavez should offer his F-16s to Iraq

What makes you think Iraq would take them? Iraq has huge oil reserves and could buy two or even three squadrons of shinny brand new Block-60 Vipers if they wanted to.

[Firehorse]

I was only being sarcastic- but Mr. Maliki is becoming more assertive and can make friends with anyone, wether the US likes it or not. It would surprise me if they don't establish good relations as both are in OPEC, de-facto, if not de-jure!

[Feanor]

Pro-American Iraq, and hotly anti-American Venezuela? Makes no sense. Iraq may be friendly with local partners but realistically the need for a trans-oceanic relationship that is sure to piss of the US makes no sense.