Algeria, Egypt, Nigeria, Bangladesh and Saudis to "receive JF-17s"

[drg]

Here's the link:
http://kommersant.com/search-result.asp Note: Click on number 1.
It also claims in the article that Lebanon, Burma, Iran and Sri Lanka have expresed interest in JF-17.
Personally, I think that the countries that they claim are buying are the plane, are simply countries that have expressed interest and may buy the plane, not necessarily will buy the plane.

[funtz]

However they have expressed interest, that means they see a possible role for this combat jet plane in their Air Force, what else is available within the same bracket.

Bangladesh, Burma, Sri Lanka, Nigeria can be good markets, i suppose and China and Pakistan can do a lot in these nations, especially Bangladesh, Burma and Srilanka as Pakistan and China can offer good professional training to them. If Pakistans example is anything to go by, Their can be a good market for avionics and weapons etc.

[SABRE]

Here's the link:
http://kommersant.com/search-result.asp Note: Click on number 1.
It also claims in the article that Lebanon, Burma, Iran and Sri Lanka have expresed interest in JF-17.
Personally, I think that the countries that they claim are buying are the plane, are simply countries that have expressed interest and may buy the plane, not necessarily will buy the plane.

There are no confirmations to this report so treat it accordingly.

So far only Azerbaijan & Zimbabwe have openly shown their interests. Azerbijan, I think, confirmed its requirement for 24 to 26 JF-17s (PAC Versions). Zimbabwe is going for 12 FC-1s (CAC versions).

[Titanium]

Lets look at the options available at present for most of the so-called third world countries to equip their airforce.

US: F-16, F/A-18, F-15
Europe: Rafale, Typhoon, Gripen
Russia: MIG-29, SU-30
China: J-7, JF-17

So considering the choices, its obious that these countries can afford only JF-17 as modern fighter.

[funtz]

The link is not showing up anything, searching individually on Kommer their is nothing that specifically deals with the topic, except wiki which sites no sources.

Could you post a more direct link Mr.drg?

I do not know of other nations mentioned your post however from recent news reports it seems as if Sri Lanka can utilize combat aircrafts which have good ground attack capability(as is obvious from recent ground attacks at separatist terrorists) decent air to air tracking and attack capability(to take care of the flying bombs that pester them) and a provide limited reconnaissance through suites developed for the local terrain.

If the JF-17 can act as a stable platform their could be a Sri Lanka specific version, however the limited number they might need these combat aircrafts in might make this an expensive proposition, however a required expensive proposition.

[eaf-f16]

Lets look at the options available at present for most of the so-called third world countries to equip their airforce.

US: F-16, F/A-18, F-15
Europe: Rafale, Typhoon, Gripen
Russia: MIG-29, SU-30
China: J-7, JF-17

So considering the choices, its obious that these countries can afford only JF-17 as modern fighter.

Umm....Saudi Arabia has like the 5th largest defense budget in the world and it's a "third world" country and it has already bought the Typhoon. Egypt is a "third world" but it has the 4th largest fleet of F-16's outside of the US. Algeria is a "third world" country that has both the Su-30 and the MiG-29. Kuwait is a "third world" country and it has the F/A-18.

Unless your still living in the Cold War Era the term "third world" country is no longer valid. There are "Under-developed", "Developing" and "Developed" countries.

The story is fake. This website specifically is unreliable. They reported something about Egypt buying Tor-M1's and MiG-29's as if it were fact before.

[Titanium]

Umm....Saudi Arabia has like the 5th largest defense budget in the world and it's a "third world" country and it has already bought the Typhoon. Egypt is a "third world" but it has the 4th largest fleet of F-16's outside of the US. Algeria is a "third world" country that has both the Su-30 and the MiG-29. Kuwait is a "third world" country and it has the F/A-18.

Unless your still living in the Cold War Era the term "third world" country is no longer valid. There are "Under-developed", "Developing" and "Developed" countries.

The story is fake. They reported something about Egypt buying Tor-M1's and MiG-29's as if it were fact before.

I know the term is misnomer, that is why I used "so-called" with third world term. Well as you said Saudi arabia may not be needing JF-17, but rest of countries do need aircraft of JF-17 capability, may not in frontline but certainly a second tier.

If you do look at the philosophy behind the development of JF-17 and LCA, you would understand that it is not meant to be replacing the front line jet in their respective countires, but rather to complement them. So for Egypt and Algeria, JF-17 capable aircraft is appropriate, not necessarily JF-17 itself.

The case of Algerian inclusion in the list is what I think called for this report. Which is surprising, as they have finalised a big contract with russia recently. According to reported terms of agreement betweeen russia and china, JF-17 with RD-93 can not be exported to Russian customers.

All news has to be taken with bucket of salt these days, after NEWS of 250 SU-30 and J-10 to Iran

[funtz]

The Russian Federal Military Technology Cooperation Service has permitted China to re-export Russian RD-93 fighter jet engines as part of FC-1 Chinese-Pakistani planes to six countries, including Algeria, which, until now, has only bought Russian jets.

Besides Pakistan and Algeria, the countries that will receive the planes are Egypt, Nigeria, Bangladesh and Saudi Arabia.

Pakistan is the only country that has signed a for the purchase of the aircraft so far.

Besides the countries that plan to sign contracts,

Lebanon, Burma, Iran and Sri Lanka have expressed interest in it.



This was the exact link i suppose, nice going for defense journalists i suppose.

http://www.kommersant.com/page.asp?id=827285

[Uche Africanus]

I don't know if this story is true but Nigeria definitely needs a decent fighter plane and lead in trainers. In fact, it would appear that its armed forces needs new equipments for land, navy and air force.

[meh]

Lets look at the options available at present for most of the so-called third world countries to equip their airforce.

US: F-16, F/A-18, F-15
Europe: Rafale, Typhoon, Gripen
Russia: MIG-29, SU-30
China: J-7, JF-17

So considering the choices, its obious that these countries can afford only JF-17 as modern fighter.

The thing you have to realise is that the JF-17 is ment to replace aircrafts like the MIG-21 and F-5 that is its main goal. Not to mention that it is far cheaper then the aircrafts listed. But like the aircrafts listed above the JF-17 incorporates feachers like BVR, Within visual range capabilites and can drop precision guided munitions. It also has HMS and is capable of anti-ship warfaire as well. So it can match in some respects the abilities of the aircrafts listed but lacks Maneuverability and advanced radars of something like the Eurofighter

[Titanium]

The thing you have to realise is that the JF-17 is ment to replace aircrafts like the MIG-21 and F-5 that is its main goal. Not to mention that it is far cheaper then the aircrafts listed. But like the aircrafts listed above the JF-17 incorporates feachers like BVR, Within visual range capabilites and can drop precision guided munitions. It also has HMS and is capable of anti-ship warfaire as well. So it can match in some respects the abilities of the aircrafts listed but lacks Maneuverability and advanced radars of something like the Eurofighter

No one is under illusion about capabilities of JF-17, that includes their developers. I just listed the available aircraft in the market.:D

[ahussains]

Well this will be a big achivment for the China and Pakistan .. they produce a Aircraft in a very short time with limited resources and a cost effective solution for the 3 world nations... and they easily earn money ,,,

[Titanium]

and they lived ever happily.............:D

[meh]

No one is under illusion about capabilities of JF-17, that includes their developers. I just listed the available aircraft in the market.:D

I was not trying to undermine you or anything I was just adding some information on sorry for the misunderstanding

[qwerty223]

The link is not showing up anything, searching individually on Kommer their is nothing that specifically deals with the topic, except wiki which sites no sources.

Could you post a more direct link Mr.drg?

The news exists... although i dont think it is relevant to quote Saudi...
http://kommersant.com/p827285/military_industrial_sales/

The re-export issue actually only lies on Pak-Indo relationship crisis. So if Pakistan are to receive them, its not a problem for other exportation.
But here's and interesting quote from the news:
India spoke against re-exporting RD-93 to Pakistan. However, the Russian president’s staff said that the deal with China does not harm Delhi’s interests, and explains: “India buys not just next-generation jets from Russia, but ‘four-plus’ generation jets”.

JF-17 fighter jets are the third generation, actually outdated machines. Meanwhile, if that deal had failed, Pakistan would have been able to acquire more modern Europe’s Eurofighter Typhoon jets or American F-16 aircrafts.
http://kommersant.com/p792862/China_to_re-export_RD-93_to_Pakistan/

[ejaz007]

JF-17’s are meant to replace J-6, J-7, F-5, A-5, Mirage-III, Mirage-V and other fighters commonly in use with low budget air forces. JF-17 shall have around 10-15 million USD price tag per plane depending on the number built. If China decides to induct these planes than price should be around 10 million mark.

According to latest news available on the net following countries have shown interest: Algeria, Bangladesh, Egypt, Iran, Lebanon, Myanmar, Nigeria, Sri Lanka and Zimbabwe.

The main issue with the program was engine re-export to Pakistan. It seems it has been resolved. Also WS-13 the local engine to be fitted to the fighter has been certified and shall be available from 2009. So no major hurdle is expected in the progress. PAF is expected to receive 8 fighters during 2008 and then full rate production shall commence.

[Skyman]

On the Burma interesting of JF-17, it could be, in my opinion, possible.

There are a little armed race in South East Asia today. Malaysia got MKM and eyes for another MRCA, Singapore order of F-15SG is now 24 aircrafts. Indonesia order 8 Su-30MK2 (Is it MK2?). And Thailand, we just order 12 Gripen and ERIEYE and eyes on conducting MLU on F-16.

I have to say, without bias or offense, in Burmese eyes, Thailand weapon build up is most concerning thing. They currently operating 36 Israeli-upgraded F-7M (With new radar and Python-3, also laser bomb capability), 24 A-5C and 12 MiG-29B/UB. Many news say those jet is in bad condition and the combat availability is not that high.

Back to 2006, according to the news, Burma try to procure MiG-29N from Mayalsia but the deal collapse bacause of budget constraint and Malaysia decision to fly them until 2010.

After the small clash between Thailand and Burma in 1999, It is obviously see that they want new jets and they got a large amont of money from selling oil, gas, electricitiy to Thailand,:p: and JF-17 is not that expensive to buy. In my opinion they will definitly buy it someday.:cool:

[StudentofWar]

How does a JF-17 compare to the Rafale?

[swerve]

How does a JF-17 compare to the Rafale?

Poorly, except in price.

This is too broad a question. I suggest you do a little reading about the characteristics of both aircraft. There's a lot of information in the public domain.

[tphuang]

while this article is not good, JF-17 is definitely going to see many orders from the Muslim world. Saudi is off the list, but I think Egypt will buy quite a few. Considering that they are the biggest user of K-8 and also have quite a few F-7s, they are probably the most logical purchasers along with Bangladesh, Burma, Iran and some of those poor African countries.

[drg]

Yeah, only Azerbaijan and Zimbabwe are 'definites' on order possibilities. I also agree with tphuang about the Saudis being off the list, however i would aslo argue that whilst Iran may buy the JF-17, I don't reckon that Egypt will buy it, nor Algeria. Although there is a strong histroy of co-operation between Egypt and China, I don't think that with the amount of equipment that Egypt is currently getting from the US, that Egypt would need the JF-17 in its air forces inventory, even if it is meant to replace older fighters.
I also think that, with the 'common opinion' (or what seems to be the current opinion) that the Thunder is a 'downgraded F-16', I don't think it will have the...what would you call it...the...prestige I suppose, to make it extremely attractive to countries with restrictive budgets. The trend that I see currently, and over the last few years, is simply for countries to upgrade existing hardware, with new equipment, or weapons, rather than to go out and buy and in turn, try to incorporate new systems. I honestly don't think that the JF-17 has the pulling power required to make major sales to mid-sized countries (like Algeria).
Phew! I'm done!

[qwerty223]

Yeah, only Azerbaijan and Zimbabwe are 'definites' on order possibilities. I also agree with tphuang about the Saudis being off the list, however i would aslo argue that whilst Iran may buy the JF-17, I don't reckon that Egypt will buy it, nor Algeria. Although there is a strong histroy of co-operation between Egypt and China, I don't think that with the amount of equipment that Egypt is currently getting from the US, that Egypt would need the JF-17 in its air forces inventory, even if it is meant to replace older fighters.
I also think that, with the 'common opinion' (or what seems to be the current opinion) that the Thunder is a 'downgraded F-16', I don't think it will have the...what would you call it...the...prestige I suppose, to make it extremely attractive to countries with restrictive budgets. The trend that I see currently, and over the last few years, is simply for countries to upgrade existing hardware, with new equipment, or weapons, rather than to go out and buy and in turn, try to incorporate new systems. I honestly don't think that the JF-17 has the pulling power required to make major sales to mid-sized countries (like Algeria).
Phew! I'm done!
Well, JF-17 had all the contemporary features, but non of them are common accepted as on par with the contemporaries. But given the list, except for Saudi and Algeria, all others need only a basic air power. The role they op for is either patrol and most important, air support to ground forces. And since the Chinese made the PGM so affordable, it is very attractive to poor country like given example in the list.

[swerve]

drg,

reasonable points, mostly not disputable. But there is one thing ... You suggest that countries which may find it hard to buy better fighters in the numbers they want, would probably rather upgrade old fighters (e.g. Morocco with its Mirage F.1s) than consider the JF-17 to make up the numbers. In some cases, I agree, but in others, old aircraft may be too old to be worth upgrading. Egypt may be in that position.

[tphuang]

Yeah, only Azerbaijan and Zimbabwe are 'definites' on order possibilities. I also agree with tphuang about the Saudis being off the list, however i would aslo argue that whilst Iran may buy the JF-17, I don't reckon that Egypt will buy it, nor Algeria. Although there is a strong histroy of co-operation between Egypt and China, I don't think that with the amount of equipment that Egypt is currently getting from the US, that Egypt would need the JF-17 in its air forces inventory, even if it is meant to replace older fighters.
I also think that, with the 'common opinion' (or what seems to be the current opinion) that the Thunder is a 'downgraded F-16', I don't think it will have the...what would you call it...the...prestige I suppose, to make it extremely attractive to countries with restrictive budgets. The trend that I see currently, and over the last few years, is simply for countries to upgrade existing hardware, with new equipment, or weapons, rather than to go out and buy and in turn, try to incorporate new systems. I honestly don't think that the JF-17 has the pulling power required to make major sales to mid-sized countries (like Algeria).
Phew! I'm done!
well, believe what you must, but from what I'm hearing, CAC is confident of a lot of orders from the Muslim world. As for downgraded F-16, depending on which version you are talking about. Certainly, it's better than F-16 A/B that can't fire AMRAAM. And Egyptians can get SD-10 for sure.

[Ths]

I think there is quite another game afoot here:

Nigeria, Saudi Arabia, Algeria and inderectly Lebanon - not to mention other muslim countries are petroleum producers - and China has a voracious appetite for petroleum.
China is desperately trying to buy oil with weapons to escape the vice of the USD.

These muslim nation are sort of in the market, because there is no way the USA will sell advanced weapons to them - and it seems that even France are getting second thoughts (they have a tendency to default on their payments). So the more fundamentalist threatned muslim countries have increasing difficulty in optaining weapons at all.

[eaf-f16]

well, believe what you must, but from what I'm hearing, CAC is confident of a lot of orders from the Muslim world. As for downgraded F-16, depending on which version you are talking about. Certainly, it's better than F-16 A/B that can't fire AMRAAM. And Egyptians can get SD-10 for sure.

IIRC, one the reasons we were having doubts about buying the JF-17's is because we were denied the SD-10. Or is that false?:confused:

I'm really not sure...

Anyways, I think the 48 JF-17's with French weaponry/avionics (Pakistan is considering doing this with their JF-17's) is pretty good deal for Lebanon which has no air force.

[eaf-f16]

I think there is quite another game afoot here:

Nigeria, Saudi Arabia, Algeria and inderectly Lebanon - not to mention other muslim countries are petroleum producers - and China has a voracious appetite for petroleum.
China is desperately trying to buy oil with weapons to escape the vice of the USD.

These muslim nation are sort of in the market, because there is no way the USA will sell advanced weapons to them - and it seems that even France are getting second thoughts (they have a tendency to default on their payments). So the more fundamentalist threatned muslim countries have increasing difficulty in optaining weapons at all.

Saudi Arabia just bought 72 Eurofighters with alot of technology transfers, JDAM's and AMRAAM's from the US, upgraded their F-15 fleet which, IIRC, is the third largest fleet of F-15's in the world, and is going to upgrade and equip their Tornado fleet with super-advanced missiles and avionics. Considering how Saudi Arabia's co-founder also founded Wahhabism which is Al-Qaida's ideology and almost all of the 9/11 hijackers were Saudi I really don't see how your statement is true.

Also Pakistan, which is second only to Afghanistan when it comes to being a terrorist headquarters, is about to get F-16 Block 52+'s (the latest version) from the US.;)

Pakistan was especially threatened by a fundamentalist take over because of the recent political turmoil but their still getting advanced weapons from the US.

By the way, France was trying to peddle their latest fighter, the Rafale, to Ghaddafi's Libya not two months ago. In fact I cannot name a single country in the Middle East (with the exception of Iran and Syria) that France hasn't tried to sell the Rafale to.

[SABRE]

Saudi Arabia just bought 72 Eurofighters with alot of technology transfers, JDAM's and AMRAAM's from the US, upgraded their F-15 fleet which, IIRC, is the third largest fleet of F-15's in the world, and is going to upgrade and equip their Tornado fleet with super-advanced missiles and avionics. Considering how Saudi Arabia's co-founder also founded Wahhabism which is Al-Qaida's ideology and almost all of the 9/11 hijackers were Saudi I really don't see how your statement is true.

Also Pakistan, which is second only to Afghanistan when it comes to being a terrorist headquarters, is about to get F-16 Block 52+'s (the latest version) from the US.;)

Pakistan was especially threatened by a fundamentalist take over because of the recent political turmoil but their still getting advanced weapons from the US.

By the way, France was trying to peddle their latest fighter, the Rafale, to Ghaddafi's Libya not two months ago. In fact I cannot name a single country in the Middle East (with the exception of Iran and Syria) that France hasn't tried to sell the Rafale to.

eaf-f16 you are making the post too political. Me minusing my self as a moderator can argue that although many terrorists were found in Pakistan but the major terrorist exporters have been Egypt, Jordon & Saudi Arabia. I mean you guys produce the best terrorists & terror groups & send them to threaten & attack others. I mean every next terrorist Pakistani Forces arrest come out to be from mostly these 3 countries (this keep Afghans out).

& I have posted a billion times on "why extremists cannot take over Pakistan?".

Now if any further insulting remarks from you for any state would either end up getting this thread closed or you banned or may be the combination of both.

[SABRE]

IIRC, one the reasons we were having doubts about buying the JF-17's is because we were denied the SD-10. Or is that false?:confused:

I'm really not sure...

Have you been reading Wikipedia? Lots of ppl have been BSing on it regarding SD-10. One of them being my own friend & he put nothing but BS there.

Anyways, I think the 48 JF-17's with French weaponry/avionics (Pakistan is considering doing this with their JF-17's) is pretty good deal for Lebanon which has no air force.


The French Radar & Missiles are for PAF JF-17s. The export JF-17 PAC would be offering would be equipped with Chinese avionics, unless the buyer decided to go western with the fighter. I doubt Lebanon (if its buying) would go for Western Avionics.

[eaf-f16]

Now if any further insulting remarks from you for any state would either end up getting this thread closed or you banned or may be the combination of both.

I didn't mean to insult Pakistan. Far from it. I was trying to make a point that even if a Muslim country is suffering from terrorism it doesn't mean that they won't get weapons. I just used the two most prominent examples of Muslim countries suffering from terrorism/extremism problems and show how their weapons sales don't get effected. That's what I meant to say.

Sorry if I came off as insulting. Didn't mean it.

[eaf-f16]

Have you been reading Wikipedia? Lots of ppl have been BSing on it regarding SD-10. One of them being my own friend & he put nothing but BS there.

Can't remember where I read it but I'm guessing it might have been there (my bad). And I don't know why people like to BS alot on Wikipedia. What benefit does it bring to them exactly?

Guess we will never know...

The French Radar & Missiles are for PAF JF-17s. The export JF-17 PAC would be offering would be equipped with Chinese avionics, unless the buyer decided to go western with the fighter. I doubt Lebanon (if its buying) would go for Western Avionics.

Why is that?

It's not like they would be making a wrong move equipping the JF-17 with a French radar and missiles. And like you said, if the buyer wants to equip it with Western equipment they can, right?

[Gripenator]

Can't remember where I read it but I'm guessing it might have been there (my bad). And I don't know why people like to BS alot on Wikipedia. What benefit does it bring to them exactly?

Guess we will never know...



Why is that?

It's not like they would be making a wrong move equipping the JF-17 with a French radar and missiles. And like you said, if the buyer wants to equip it with Western equipment they can, right?

The answer to your first question involves some sort of personal 'pride' and/or nationalism.

The answer to your second question is cost. I believe the Lebanese armed forces rely on second hand or donated equipment, latest word has them shopping for second hand F-5s. Besides, the Lebanese don't need an air force-their proximity to Israel ensures any further outbreak of hostilities will reduce their latest acquisitions to smouldering heaps of burning metal......

[SABRE]

Why is that?

It's not like they would be making a wrong move equipping the JF-17 with a French radar and missiles. And like you said, if the buyer wants to equip it with Western equipment they can, right?


Because so far France has approved sell of these equipments for PAF. PAC has yet to get approval of further export. Hence unless the export license is not given to PAC the export JF-17s PAF will produce will be equipped with Chinese avionics & weapons.

[swerve]

... I believe the Lebanese armed forces rely on second hand or donated equipment, latest word has them shopping for second hand F-5s. Besides, the Lebanese don't need an air force-their proximity to Israel ensures any further outbreak of hostilities will reduce their latest acquisitions to smouldering heaps of burning metal......

1) So I've heard.

2) The Lebanese think an air force could be handy sometimes for internal use.

3) The Israelis have not bothered to attack the Lebanese air force in the past, as long as it stays on the ground when Israeli aircraft are overhead. Sort of a tacit understanding. Why would that change?

[eaf-f16]

...the Lebanese don't need an air force-their proximity to Israel ensures any further outbreak of hostilities will reduce their latest acquisitions to smouldering heaps of burning metal......

If the Lebanese get a good enough plane (Typhoon, Su-30, etc.) that might not be the case. Of course they can't afford such planes.

IMO, the Lebanese need something to defend the skies over the neighborhoods in south of Lebanon since Israel likes to hit apartment buildings over there. The S-300/S-400 systems (if they can afford them) are more effective than some of the modern fighter jets out right now and definitely more cost effective...

[SABRE]

What Lebanese need is a good air defence system. A single squadron of fighters won't be helping them fight Israel.

[swerve]

What Lebanese need is a good air defence system. A single squadron of fighters won't be helping them fight Israel.

Indeed. But they're not looking for something to fight Israel.

[SABRE]

Indeed. But they're not looking for something to fight Israel.

Well if they are not looking to Israel or anyone else than they should just deploy good air-defence system.

[swerve]

Well if they are not looking to Israel or anyone else than they should just deploy good air-defence system.

Air-defence systems can't drop bombs on rebels, or do air policing over areas where the government may not have the clout to install ground-based air defence systems.

You appear to assume that fighters must be for use against external enemis, but I think the Lebanese government wants them for internal use.

[SABRE]

Air-defence systems can't drop bombs on rebels, or do air policing over areas where the government may not have the clout to install ground-based air defence systems.

You appear to assume that fighters must be for use against external enemis, but I think the Lebanese government wants them for internal use.

I don't think Labanese would carryout any internal actions. They do still remember the civil War. There is possibly no way Labanese could fight Hizbollah (if thats what you are assuming as their target). Plus, this might again give leverage to Syria to interfere into Lebanon.

Coming back to JF-17s I do not think Lebanon is going to buy any. Its not just buying 12 JF-17s its also putting up support infrastructure, training, maintainance & other facilities. I don't know if Labanese are willing to commit that much.

[caspianfish]

its not easy to buy F-16 but looks like its very easy to buy JF-17 multirole fighters from Pakistan.

23 April 2007 [14:14] - Today.Az

Azerbaijan Defense Minister Safar Abiyev and Defense Industry Minister Yavar Jamalov are scheduled to make an official visit to Pakistan.
During attending the IDEAS international military exhibition in Pakistan, Azerbaijan showed interest to JF-17 multirole fighters as well as tanks and small arms made in Pakistan.


Do you really think that the JF will be a good choice against F-16 or other western multirole fighters?I dont believe it.Most countries buy it but I really guess that the reason why they buy it is the price.Its cheap than western models.

[mysterious]

AFM is already reporting in its December issue that Azerbaijan's Defense Ministry spokesman, Major Ilgar Verdijev has revealed in an interview that Azerbaijan plans to acquire 24 Jf-17 fighter jets, following up on his visit to Pakistan in April 2007. In addition, Azerbaijan AirForce will acquire 29 Mig-29s fighters and 25 Mi-24 combat helis.

Looks like the Azeris have pretty much decided.

[Izzy1]

AFM is already reporting in its December issue that Azerbaijan's Defense Ministry spokesman, Major Ilgar Verdijev has revealed in an interview that Azerbaijan plans to acquire 24 Jf-17 fighter jets, following up on his visit to Pakistan in April 2007. In addition, Azerbaijan AirForce will acquire 29 Mig-29s fighters and 25 Mi-24 combat helis.

Looks like the Azeris have pretty much decided.


I'm sorry, but a Major decided this...?

[BilalK]

I'm sorry, but a Major decided this...?
Major might have been a spokesperson.

[mysterious]

My original post 'clearly' states that a Defense Ministry 'spokesman', NAMED Major Ilgar Verdijev revealed this information in an interview. He is a spokesman simply revealing something that has been taken a decision on higher up in the defense & governing establishment. Hope that clarifies it all.

[eaf-f16]

Air-defence systems can't drop bombs on rebels, or do air policing over areas where the government may not have the clout to install ground-based air defence systems.

You appear to assume that fighters must be for use against external enemis, but I think the Lebanese government wants them for internal use.

Unless you're talking about Fateh el-Islam or some other Palestinian group operating inside of Lebanon, the Lebanese Army can't go against any type of insurgency inside their territory, especially Hezbollah (if that's what you were talking about). The Lebanese gov't is already (and has been for a long time now) in a very weak and uncertain position. I doubt bombing their own country to target a highly influential group such as Hezbollah will do any help.

You can't use warplanes to crush an insurgency or militia group. Just ask Israel and the US. If anything using warplanes might even weaken their position because of the civilian casualties often associated with the use of warplanes in civilian areas.

The Lebanese Army is just under-equipped and uses outdated equipment. That's why they couldn't take care of the Fateh el-Islam issue fast enough. Not because they lacked warplanes. I think attack helicopters are better suited for this role.

Buying a credible air-defense system to protect the people in the south from Israel will strengthen their position by showing that the military is capable of defending the country and take away from the legitimacy of groups like Hezbollah and show that groups such as Hezbollah are not needed to defend the nation against Israeli aggression.

The air-defense system is still the best option. Politically speaking, militarily speaking and economically speaking. I also think that Hezbollah will look really bad not allowing an air-defense system made to defend the nation to be installed or let in on their "turf". And Nasrallah has been calling on the Lebanese Army and the UN to find a way to stop Israeli overflights on Lebanon (which are meant to gather intel on Hezbollah). An air-defense system might put an end to Israeli recon flights on Hezbollah. So there is an interest for them in this too.

A credible air-defense system will do everybody involved in the situation (except Israel) some good. I'm sure that the interests involved for both parties will make Hezbollah and the Lebanese gov't come to a compromise regarding an air-defense system in the South of Lebanon.

[Chrom]

A credible air-defense system will do everybody involved in the situation (except Israel) some good. I'm sure that the interests involved for both parties will make Hezbollah and the Lebanese gov't come to a compromise regarding an air-defense system in the South of Lebanon.

Pretty much this. Addidionally, politically it is completely impossible for Lebanon goverment to take ANY military action against Hezbollah. Half they army will desert with equipment and turn around.