Russian MiG's in Sudan ..... Again?

[Feanor]

http://www.sudantribune.com/spip.php?article27952

Apparently 12 Russian Mig's were supplied through Belarus. Russian Mo Foreign Affairs is denying it. The article says that the MiG's are based at Wadi Sayedna. Anyone here good at google earth and can maybe find the airbase? Also do you guys think Russia is supplying arms possibly through third parties?

[Chrom]

http://www.sudantribune.com/spip.php?article27952

Apparently 12 Russian Mig's were supplied through Belarus. Russian Mo Foreign Affairs is denying it. The article says that the MiG's are based at Wadi Sayedna. Anyone here good at google earth and can maybe find the airbase? Also do you guys think Russia is supplying arms possibly through third parties?

Belarus can perfectly sell Mig's on its own. No need for conspiracy theorities.

[ROCK45]

Isn't Belarus the country that advised Algeria that there was something wrong with the Russian Mig-29 SMT's or how they were made?

[AegisFC]

Just a reminder to check the spelling of your title when you post a thread. Fixed a spelling mistake for you.

[Feanor]

Just a reminder to check the spelling of your title when you post a thread. Fixed a spelling mistake for you.

My apologies. Thanks for the fix.

[Chrom]

Isn't Belarus the country that advised Algeria that there was something wrong with the Russian Mig-29 SMT's or how they were made?

No, of course not. Belarus may actually partake in that contract. Most likely it was Ukrainians. But may be some other Ex-Warpac country.

[ROCK45]

Chrom I knew I saw it some place but the text doesn't match. Does this ring a bell but I can't find the article.

Re: Algeria MiG row -- Part 2
Belarusian experts advised Algeria to turn back MIG 29 aircrafts ... Algeria's decision returning MIG 29 aircrafts to Russia has been taken . ...
newsgroups.derkeiler.com/Archive/Soc/soc.culture.algeria/2008-02/msg00100.html - 11k - Cached - Similar pages

http://newsgroups.derkeiler.com/Archive/Soc/soc.culture.algeria/2008-02/msg00100.html

This is the search I did
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=Who+advised+Algeria+to+refuse+Mig-29&btnG=Search

[Chrom]

Chrom I knew I saw it some place but the text doesn't match. Does this ring a bell but I can't find the article.

Re: Algeria MiG row -- Part 2
Belarusian experts advised Algeria to turn back MIG 29 aircrafts ... Algeria's decision returning MIG 29 aircrafts to Russia has been taken . ...
newsgroups.derkeiler.com/Archive/Soc/soc.culture.algeria/2008-02/msg00100.html - 11k - Cached - Similar pages

http://newsgroups.derkeiler.com/Archive/Soc/soc.culture.algeria/2008-02/msg00100.html

This is the search I did
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=Who+advised+Algeria+to+refuse+Mig-29&btnG=Search

Most likely someone have understood something wrong - it is likely there were some blocks of Belarussian origin in these Mig's, not what Belarus advised against. Belarus value its close military and economical relations with Russia, and many Belarussian manufactures closely cooperate with russian corporations in internal and export contracts. As i said, it is very likely some parts in these Migs were of Belarussian origin.

P.S. Ah well, really everything is possible. Even some "independent" Belarussian experts. The main thing however remains clear - this refuse, whoever advised it, had little to do with any old parts and imaginable deficiencies.

[Feanor]

It probably had more to do with the SMT being an inferior machine in the first place.

[Chrom]

It probably had more to do with the SMT being an inferior machine in the first place.
Inferior to what? To Mig-29M/M2? Su-30MKI? Sure. But Algerians knew what they ordered well before, dont they?

[flyer19999]

I just saw where Belarus also supplied the S-300PMU1 and S-300PMU2 air defense missile system to Iran. I hope they can also supply Iran with the latest MIG-29 air defense fighter jets.

[Chrom]

I just saw where Belarus also supplied the S-300PMU1 and S-300PMU2 air defense missile system to Iran. I hope they can also supply Iran with the latest MIG-29 air defense fighter jets.

Lol? Belarus do not produce S-300PMU. At most they can sell old S-300 from USSR stocks, but it is also very unlikely. Either way, any rumors about S-300 in Iran from whichever sources are completely false.

[flyer19999]

Iran already had the S-300PMU1 air defense system for several years now. The ones Belarus supplied are additional units to include S-300PMU1 and S-300PMU2. It makes perfect sense since accounts have said for some time that Russia would supply Iran with these missile thru Belarus.

[Chrom]

Iran already had the S-300PMU1 air defense system for several years now. The ones Belarus supplied are additional units to include S-300PMU1 and S-300PMU2. It makes perfect sense since accounts have said for some time that Russia would supply Iran with these missile thru Belarus.

Lol. Please, provide a credible link about S-300 in Iran ;)

[flyer19999]

Here is the link on Iran already having the S-300PMU1 missile system and about to get more:


http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?pagename=JPost%2FJPArticle%2FShowFull&cid=1215331076183

[ROCK45]

Hi flyer19999
That link doesn't say Iran has the weapons system now.

From your link
The systems will likely be supplied to Iran via Belarus.

[Grand Danois]

Here is the link on Iran already having the S-300PMU1 missile system and about to get more:


http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?pagename=JPost%2FJPArticle%2FShowFull&cid=1215331076183

First the semantics; you said Iran already has them. The title of the article goes: 'Advanced S-300 on the way to Iran'.

Second, the source for this is Jane's who published a grotesquely absurd story on how S-300's were to be smuggled to Iran from Belarus. The sources for this? Unnamed individuals and speculations in the popular Russian press. *Not* a credible mix.

There are no S-300 in Iran. Only internet rumours and circular references (e.g. Rense and FAS). I thnk I've explained in another thread (about Syria?) how the rumour started. :D

Here is the link to the story in Jane's: http://www.janes.com/news/defence/systems/idr/idr080117_1_n.shtml

[Feanor]

Inferior to what? To Mig-29M/M2? Su-30MKI? Sure. But Algerians knew what they ordered well before, dont they?

Compared to the Su-30MKA (similar to the MKI) which they also ordered. Which is why they asked for more MKA's instead of the SMT's.

[flyer19999]

The following states that Iran procured a limited number of S-300PMU-1 missiles in 1993, the link is below. Before jumping to conclusions the article is paragraph eight so please read long enough to get to the article::onfloorl:


http://missilethreat.com/missiledefensesystems/id.50/system_detail.asp

[Grand Danois]

The following states that Iran procured a limited number of S-300PMU-1 missiles in 1993, the link is below. Before jumping to conclusions the article is paragraph eight so please read long enough to get to the article::onfloorl:


http://missilethreat.com/missiledefensesystems/id.50/system_detail.asp

And yet Iran has no S-300? That's because FI (the source, in hard copy) based it on speculations on observations of surveillance radars associated with the S-300. Elements unique to the S-300 complex has never been spotted by any means.

Btw, the Iranian defence minister said on dec. 26 2007 that Iran was set to receive S-300 in the future, so obviously a report that alledges possesion in 1993 must suck. On top of that the absence of logic in Russia exporting a top system to Iran in 1993.

So any source claiming that Iran had S-300 prior to dec. 26 2007 is false.

And again I'll believe it when I see the non-Photoshopped pics of S-300 in Iran.

Now think about that.

Cheers

[Chrom]

Compared to the Su-30MKA (similar to the MKI) which they also ordered. Which is why they asked for more MKA's instead of the SMT's.

As i said, Algerians knew what they ordered before.

[Feanor]

The following states that Iran procured a limited number of S-300PMU-1 missiles in 1993, the link is below. Before jumping to conclusions the article is paragraph eight so please read long enough to get to the article::onfloorl:


http://missilethreat.com/missiledefensesystems/id.50/system_detail.asp

First off the source is a cnp of different time periods. If you're interested MDB has a comprehensive list of Russiand AD systems export. Second off SAM's are not the main part of russian military export, aircraft are. The source also does not specifically claim that Iran has the missile. It merely speculates that it's possible. It's not evidence.

http://mdb.cast.ru/mdb/1-2008/item4/article2/

[flyer19999]

Another link stating Iran received two S-300C missiles systems in 2003 and they were placed near Tehran. Also our (USA) government has stated that there are two S-300C missile systems around Tehran. Item is about five or six paragraphs down article. Additionally, the USA comment was confirmed by satellite imagery.


http://archive.newsmax.com/archives/articles/2002/1/9/154806.shtml

[Grand Danois]

Frm your link:

Iran to Buy Russian Weapons

Referring to U.S. concern over Russian arms sales to Iran, Russian President Putin noted that profits from such military deals was measured by their "foreign policy consequences."

Defense analysts note that Iran is likely to be the third-largest importer of Russian weapons, behind China and India. In 2001 Iran acquired a limited number of Russian SA-10C Grumble surface-to-air missiles. The missiles are reportedly stationed outside Tehran. Iranian armed forces personnel have traveled to Moscow to receive training on the SA-10 system.

Iranian Defense Minister Ali Shamkhjani noted during a recent visit to Moscow that future large purchases of Russian weapons are in the works.

http://archive.newsmax.com/archives/articles/2002/1/9/154806.shtml

And what you wrote:

Another link stating Iran received two S-300C missiles systems in 2003 and they were placed near Tehran. Also our (USA) government has stated that there are two S-300C missile systems around Tehran. Item is about five or six paragraphs down article. Additionally, the USA comment was confirmed by satellite imagery.


http://archive.newsmax.com/archives/articles/2002/1/9/154806.shtml

Sorry, they don't have them. It's a circular reference.

[Feanor]

I've got a better one. What does it matter, for practical purposes, if Iran has two S-300's? They might as well have 0. The only way that the S-300 is even remotely an argument, is if Iran has it in numbers, to provide redundant coverage, and within a supporting system. Even if it has a handful of assembled from bought spare components, systems, they will make no difference.

[Feanor]

Sorry to bring this thread back, but I ran into two interesting articles from newsru.com and arms-tass.su which both mentioned that Russia has completed delivery of 12 MiG-29 of an unspecified variant to Sudan. I can't seem to figure out whether this is the completion of the 2004 contract, which I thought had already been completed, or whether this is indeed a different contract. The articles also mention a team of Russian specialists that are working in Sudan with the Sudanese government.

This comes immediately after Sudan unilaterally announced a ceasefire in Darfur. I hope this ceasefire is upheld, which is quite likely given the genocide charges being leveled against Sudanese officials.

http://newsru.com/world/14nov2008/12migs.html
http://arms-tass.su/?page=article&aid=62673&cid=24

EDIT: Here's another article with more of the same.

http://www.arms-expo.ru/site.xp/049056050057124053049049057.html

[SkolZkiy]

http://www.lenta.ru/news/2008/11/14/sudan/
here is said that Sudan confirmed the deal on 12 Russian MiG-29. It was said by MoD of Sudan

[Feanor]

But is it the same deal that was mentioned earlier? Or a different one? Remember Russia has already signed for sure one deal with Fulcrums, and those Fulcrums have already participated in combat. One was even shot down. Is this a second batch? Does Sudan now fly two squadrons of 12? Or is this simply a notice of completion of the same deal?

[SkolZkiy]

I think the second. And even more I think that Rosoboronexport will reject this info or even won't comment it. But if soon Ru oil-companies wiil get some new contracts in Sudan then may be it is the second squadron =) At least I haven't found any other info