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eaf-f16
July 16th, 2008, 06:20 PM
Thought this would be worthy of discussion. Here's the article if you haven't seen it already.

US freezes arms sales to Taiwan (http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20080716/wl_asia_afp/ustaiwanchinaweapons;_ylt=AqtTtwR976O5Luqr2ry6QKJv aA8F)

WASHINGTON (AFP) - The United States has frozen arms sales to Taiwan following concerns expressed by China and amid warming ties between Beijing and Taipei, top US military commander in Asia Admiral Timothy Keating said Wednesday.

The decision was made after having "reconciled Taiwan's military posture, China's current military posture and strategy that indicates there is no pressing, compelling need for, at this moment, arms sales to Taiwan," he said.

There had been no "significant" arms sales from the United States to Taiwan "in relatively recent times," he acknowledged at a forum of the Washington based Heritage Foundation. "It is administration policy," he said.

Taiwan experts said Keating was the first official to confirm the freeze following reports last month that senior US officials were holding up an 11 billion dollar arms package and the delivery of dozens of F-16 jets for Taiwan, possibly until President George W. Bush leaves office.

The Bush administration must give Congress formal notification for the approval of weapons sales to foreign governments, but the Washington Post recently cited unnamed sources saying Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice and National Security Adviser Stephen Hadley had frozen the deal.

The reports appeared as China and Taiwan began their first formal talks in a decade in June, the latest step in a rapprochement that is likely to see the long-time rivals quickly deepen trade and tourism ties.

Keating said while Washington was committed to the defense of Taiwan, as enshrined in US law, "We want to do nothing to destabilize the (Taiwan) Strait," which separates the Taiwan and the mainland.

"The Chinese have made clear to me their concern over any arms sales to Taiwan," he said when asked whether Beijing had asked Washington to review military ties with Taiwan.

Taiwan has been governed separately since the end of a 1949 civil war, but Beijing has repeatedly threatened to invade should the island declare formal independence.

Washington has been the island's leading arms supplier, despite switching diplomatic recognition from Taipei to Beijing in 1979.

The last time the Bush administration notified the US Congress about potential arms sales to Taiwan was on November 9, 2007, for a Patriot-2 missile deal worth 939 million dollars. But Taipei wanted the newer Patriot-3 missiles.

On September 21, the Pentagon notified its intention to sell the island 12 P-3C Orion anti-submarine warfare aircraft and anti-aircraft missiles worth several billion dollars.

Taiwanese President Ma Ying-jeou, who took over from independence-leaning Chen Shui-bian earlier this year, said last week that the island needed to secure defensive weapons from the United States despite warming ties with China.

Some US experts said Washington's freeze left Ma with "no cover" in his talks to boost ties with Beijing.

"Ma has urgently requested the United States to provide these arms in the hope that they would reinforce an impression of a strong US-Taiwan security relationship and thereby encourage China to accept the island as it is, not as a part of China," John Tkacik, a former State Department China expert, told AFP.

"But the Bush administration, by ignoring Taiwan's request, ensures that Taiwan deals with Beijing from a position of weakness," he said.

"It's clear to me that the Bush administration has abandoned all commitments to defend Taiwan's democracy," said Tkacik, now with the conservative Heritage Foundation.

So, the points that should be known:


This has been a policy of the Bush admin. for a while now.
This freeze in arms sales probably doesn't include spare parts and support.
The freeze may end after Bush is gone.
This came at the request of the People's Republic of China and has been in effect for a while, now it is just official.




Pro'forma
July 20th, 2008, 06:23 PM
News are of worthy around the globe .

Considered serious situation in Taiwan. Are you thinking here participation
and aid is out of control, or is this temporary arrangement ?
Surely 409 pieces of artillery stuff is prohibited.

kliu1
July 20th, 2008, 06:45 PM
So what, the freeze includes the 12 P-3C and harpoon missiles? I'm pretty sure they were under transfer and procurement before the freeze already (Meaning that the US agreed). By the way, I'm pretty sure that the PAC deal from 2007 was upgrading to PAC III standard not PAC II because Taiwan currently has PAC II. (http://www.domainb.com/industry/defence/20071114_patriot.htm)

Whats shocking about this is that the State Department says completely different things to what Pacific Command says. If it is indeed "administration policy" then its absurd and violates the Taiwan Relations Act by denying Taiwan weapons. Congress has nothing to say about this? Even though the weapons procurement allows more employment and further enhancement of the US defence industry? Rumors are that they are trying to please Beijing for the Olympics, if that is so they'll sell after Olympics?

cyberstranger
July 21st, 2008, 05:56 PM
Unnecessary comment. Please familiarize yourself with the rules of DT.

http://defencetalk.com/forums/rules.php

/GD

swerve
July 23rd, 2008, 08:18 PM
I suppose the French will calculate that it isn't worth annoying the Chinese by offering to make up the shortfall, but you never know. Maybe 60 or so ex-UAE Mirage 2000-9 could mysteriously make their way to Taiwan, with the French saying "Sacre bleu! Nothing to do with us, mate, honest!". Or maybe they'll decide that for a really big sale of Rafale, AASM, SAMP/T etc. it's worth annoying the Chinese.

eaf-f16
July 23rd, 2008, 08:45 PM
I suppose the French will calculate that it isn't worth annoying the Chinese by offering to make up the shortfall, but you never know. Maybe 60 or so ex-UAE Mirage 2000-9 could mysteriously make their way to Taiwan, with the French saying "Sacre bleu! Nothing to do with us, mate, honest!". Or maybe they'll decide that for a really big sale of Rafale, AASM, SAMP/T etc. it's worth annoying the Chinese.

This could have very well been a divine Gift from God to the Rafale and to the French defense establishment as a whole.

I actually see a good shot of them selling it to Taiwan if the next prez continues this policy. They already operate large numbers of Mirage 2000-5 so clearly the French don't care too much.

Plus Sarko's gunna wanna see the Rafale sell.

ROCK45
July 23rd, 2008, 08:52 PM
swerve you mentioned annoying the Chinese and I always wanted to know why the French never followed up on their Mirage 2000-5 sales. Does China have power over Frances economy the way if does over the US? I wondered why Rafale's weren't pushed to Taiwan? Taiwan would gain a good platform just a little more expensive then late model Vipers.

Chino
July 23rd, 2008, 09:32 PM
I thought the US want to scale down arms supply because they can see that eventually... inevitably - Taiwan will re-unite with China. It may take another 20 years' negotiation, but it will likely happen.

Even though the terms is to allow Taiwan to keep her armed forces intact and no PLA forces will be stationed on Taiwan soil... you never know what's actually gonna happen.

No Western powers would want to sell hi-tech stuff to Taiwan now and after reunification find cheap knockofffs appearing within 2 weeks at half the price.:onfloorl:

swerve
July 24th, 2008, 02:53 PM
Does China have power over Frances economy the way if does over the US?
China doesn't own huge amounts of French debt, the way it owns huge amounts of US debt. The only economic hold is the attraction of selling French goods to the huge Chinese market. But the debt doesn't give China much power over the US economy. If China ever tried to use it as a weapon, it would give the USA sound grounds for repudiating it, & if China & the USA went to war, Chinas US Treasury notes would all be frozen immediately.

If you owe the bank a thousand pounds, you have a problem. If you owe a million, they have a problem. Same with countries.

ROCK45
July 24th, 2008, 10:44 PM
So it comes down to trade if the French do more business with China in other areas, then selling a squadron or two may not be worth it to them.

autumn child
July 25th, 2008, 02:58 AM
resons for the french not to sell weapons to Taiwan:

1) trade - we have already seen massive anti french protest in China, boycots of french products, etc due to the olympic protest in Paris and the pro-tibetan attitude. Companies like LVMH subsidiaries, Carrefour, airbus are already big in China. Selling weapons to taiwan at this critical time will seriously effect the well being of these companies.

2) Politics - China has shown the world that its beggining to assert its influence on its developing countries allies (e.g. six party talk). China's role in the world stage is increasingly visible. The french probably want the most sensible course of action by appeasing rising powers such as China so that the french can further their own political goals in the future.

Selling weapons to Taiwan is only worth the money and perhaps some ideology, but money is more practical.

contedicavour
August 16th, 2008, 02:17 PM
With the recent bad news for the Rafale (Saudi buying another 72 Typhoons, Brazil and Romania expressing strong interest in the Typhoon...) a sale to Taiwan would indeed be likely. On top Taiwan wouldn't have to ask the US for AIM120s because the Rafales come with their own fire and forget MICAs

cheers