Iraq's "Hungarian" T-72s may actually be ex-Belarussian

[drg]

Call me crazy, but i think i've found something here.
Just flicking through some old notes on Belarus, looking for nothing in particular, when i found something i'd wrote 2-3 years ago, from the UNROCA website, about Belarus selling (claimed) 100 T-72s to Hungary.
Hmmm I says, that looks familiar...
So yeah, anyone else reckon this is a distinct possibility,(I'm thinking that maybe Hungary would have had more advanced T-72s of its own) or am i a couple of cents short of a dollar?

[Izzy1]

To be fair drg, if one recalls, Hungary transfered to Iraq a sizable numberof T-72 MBT.

Adding to that, this years Jane's describes the BTR-80 as the only armoured vehicle now operated - no MBTs.

[FSMonster]

You think you've heard something about it somewhere and you'd like to hear exactly what from us? No links, no quotes no articles, no nothing it's like you're only interested in some idle speculation.

Hungary donated 77 tanks to Iraq. These are the original version of T72 fron Hungary's own stocks.

"The final convoy of tractor-trailers hauling the equipment delivered its load Nov. 11, completing the long journey of 77 T-72s, 36 armored vehicles (BMPs), four recovery vehicles and several containers of parts and weaponry from Hungary to the 9th Iraqi Army Division (Mechanized).

The largest equipment donation to the Iraqi Army to date - dozens of T-72 tanks and armored personnel carriers - arrived at Taji Military Base over a three-day period last week."

You can read the whole article here (http://www.defendamerica.mil/articles/nov2005/a111405tj1.html).

[drg]

Yeah, that's right.
Simple speculation FSMonster. And without such speculation, you'll just accept everything you're fed (which may be fine for you, but alas not for me).

[eckherl]

Yeah, that's right.
Simple speculation FSMonster. And without such speculation, you'll just accept everything you're fed (which may be fine for you, but alas not for me).

There is nothing special about the T-72s recieved from Hungary, they are T-72M1 export models. If Iraq wanted anything better then all they need to do is ask, they could get the T-80U if they wanted it.

[contedicavour]

Or Hungary could get some surplus Leo2 from Germany or the Netherlands... probably a better solution for interoperability during NATO exercises.

cheers

[Przezdzieblo]

There is nothing special about the T-72s recieved from Hungary, they are T-72M1 export models. If Iraq wanted anything better then all they need to do is ask, they could get the T-80U if they wanted it.

Hello
T-72M1 and T-72M (older variant, without smoke grenade launchers and `Dolly Parton` sand core turrets). But do not know exact numbers how many -Ms and -M1s in that 77 stock.

[Cutaway]

Or Hungary could get some surplus Leo2 from Germany or the Netherlands... probably a better solution for interoperability during NATO exercises.

cheers

Just like Poland using F-16s and Georgia dumping AKs for M16s as part of adjusting to NATO regulations.

Howabout the new Iraq?, Are they going to do the same or stick with the Russian stock?.

[eckherl]

Just like Poland using F-16s and Georgia dumping AKs for M16s as part of adjusting to NATO regulations.

Howabout the new Iraq?, Are they going to do the same or stick with the Russian stock?.

Everything seems to be leaning that way with the bulk of their armor purchases.

[kato]

probably a better solution for interoperability during NATO exercises.


Except Hungary cooperates more closely with Eastern European nations within NATO than with Western nations (unlike Poland, which got its Leos for MNC NE).

Besides which, Hungary iirc only has plans for one active overstrength company of tanks in its army anyway.
Only thing (other than aircraft) where i could see them go Western are SAMs - those SA-6 will need to be replaced sometime.

[Chrom]

Except Hungary cooperates more closely with Eastern European nations within NATO than with Western nations (unlike Poland, which got its Leos for MNC NE).

Besides which, Hungary iirc only has plans for one active overstrength company of tanks in its army anyway.
Only thing (other than aircraft) where i could see them go Western are SAMs - those SA-6 will need to be replaced sometime.
Every old western equipment is not out of possibilty. Old Leos and Challys comes especeally to mind. They could be literally given out for free - hard to beat that offer really...

[eckherl]

To be fair drg, if one recalls, Hungary transfered to Iraq a sizable numberof T-72 MBT.

Adding to that, this years Jane's describes the BTR-80 as the only armoured vehicle now operated - no MBTs.

You are so incorrect with that Izzy1, Not only are they running T-72s but they are also running a full array of other vehicles.

Wrong country, My mistake.

[Izzy1]

Eck, don't shoot the messenger.

Jane's World Armies quotes only the BTR-80 in Hungarian service.

I didn't write it Chief.

(I confirm though. They did hand over most of their T-72s over to Iraq however)

[eckherl]

Eck, don't shoot the messenger.

Jane's World Armies quotes only the BTR-80 in Hungarian service.

I didn't write it Chief.

Ad

added vehicles from current Iraq, my mistake.

[Izzy1]

You are so incorrect with that Izzy1, Not only are they running T-72s but they are also running a full array of other vehicles.

Your more than welcome to back that up Eck.

I'll stick with Jane's and my MK1 in the meantime.

[Izzy1]

T-72s, BMP1 and 2s, MTLBs, and BTR94s are on patrols and manning checkpoints.

Wow, hold on. A few BRDM-2 I could believe. But the loosest border in central Europe has that contingent?

[eckherl]

Your more than welcome to back that up Eck.

I'll stick with Jane's and my MK1 in the meantime.

I thought we were talking about Iraqi T-72s and equipment that they are operating, why are we discussing what Hungary is currently using. My mistake

[eckherl]

Your more than welcome to back that up Eck.

I'll stick with Jane's and my MK1 in the meantime.

After digging around Hungary still has a small batch of T-72s that is still operational in units. Other vehicles still on inventory would also include BMP 1, MTLBs and T-55s, all these vehicles are pretty much sitting around and eroding in the outer elements due to not having any buyers at the moment. maybe Iraq can get additional BMPs and T-55s at dirt cheap prices.

[drg]

Nah, Greece has shipped approximately 100 BMP-1s to Iraq over the last two years according to UNROCA.

[eckherl]

Nah, Greece has shipped approximately 100 BMP-1s to Iraq over the last two years according to UNROCA.

So - whats your point, they are recieving armored vehicles from other countries also. Is there something special about Greeces BMP-1.

[kato]

They're ex-East-German, modified in West Germany to SPz BMP-1A1 standard. Afaik all BMP1 exported to Greece were BMP-1A1.

Nothing special.

BMP-1A1 means they have the AT-3 launcher removed (and AT-5 added), 73mm autoloader removed, fuel cells in back doors removed. Western standard smoke grenade launchers added. Fifth gear was blocked, lowering speed to 40 kph max; modified transmission for better handling. Boarding ladder on the left side of the vehicle, some anti-sliding covering of the hull. Added crew compartment heating. Rubber track pieces originally planned for German service, as the BMP-1A1 didn't get a road license due to its metal tracks.

Later Greek upgrades included a M2HB for the TC.

[eckherl]

They're ex-East-German, modified in West Germany to SPz BMP-1A1 standard. Afaik all BMP1 exported to Greece were BMP-1A1.

Nothing special.

BMP-1A1 means they have the AT-3 launcher removed (and AT-5 added), 73mm autoloader removed, fuel cells in back doors removed. Western standard smoke grenade launchers added. Fifth gear was blocked, lowering speed to 40 kph max; modified transmission for better handling. Boarding ladder on the left side of the vehicle, some anti-sliding covering of the hull. Added crew compartment heating. Rubber track pieces originally planned for German service, as the BMP-1A1 didn't get a road license due to its metal tracks.

Later Greek upgrades included a M2HB for the TC.

I would assume that it is the same spandrel launcher found on the BMP 2, Sweden purchased a big batch of BMP1s many years ago from Germany that are apparently no longer being used, what happened to them besides some of them making it to the tank ranges.

Iraq is pulling and making deals with alot of different countries at the current time for a variety of different vehicles, what they haven`t managed to scavenge from battlefield wrecks for spare parts they are purchasing vehicles just for this purpose. With the success rate that Iraq is experiencing with newly established units we will see even more of a mechanized growth rate.

[Izzy1]

Eckherl...



I take it that Jane's was right...


BTR-80....


A lousy piece of kit x