Nuclear-capable Akash missile test fired

[funtz]

Nuclear-capable Akash missile test fired
13 Dec 2007, 20:07 hrs IST PTI

Balasore (Orissa): On the heels of conducting trials of interceptor missiles, India on Thursday revived its surface-to-air nuclear-capable Akash missile programme by carrying out its fresh test firing near here.

The multi-target missile with a strike range of 25 kms and capable of carrying a nuclear warhead of 50 kg was test fired from a mobile launcher, Defence sources said.

The missile targeted a flying object using the Pilotless Target Aircraft (PTA), Lakshya, as support system, they said. The PTA was flown at 11:36 am and Akash missile was test fired at around 11:55 am.

For the next ten days, a series of test firings of the missile would be carried out to pave the way for its induction into the Indian Air Force.

The IAF had not been satisfied by performance of the missile in earlier test firings and this had led to the government clearing a deal to procure ground-to-air missiles from Israel.
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/India/Nuclear-capable_Akash_missile_test_fired/articleshow/2620568.cms

Is this even possible? :unknown

[mysterious]

Perhaps, but what remains to be seen is a credible independent report outlining both Indian and Pakistani capabilities & success at miniaturizing nuclear warheads. Much of it remains shrouded in mystery.

Btw, I think this thread should be merged with the original Indian Missile & Nuclear Development thread. Mods?

[Firehorse]

IMO, using nuclear-tipped interceptors are sure way to destroy incoming warheads- better be safe than sorry!
India: Major cities to get missile defence shield (http://www.tribuneindia.com/2007/20071213/main5.htm)
Major cities of the country, including Delhi, Mumbai, Kolkata, Chennai and other “high value targets” will get the anti-ballistic missile defence shield, once the ballistic defence system (BMD) is fully operational within the next three to four years, missile and strategic system chief of the Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO) Dr V.K. Saraswat said here today.

[mysterious]

As far as I am aware, the old Cold War adage still exists that as expensive it is to develop & deploy an ABM system; for the aggressor it is far cheaper to counter it or simply overwhelm it. And with missile flight times varying from 5mins-15mins; I don't see how Akash would help unless it targetted incoming missiles in their boost phase.

[Awang se]

using nuke warhead means the missile are not accurate enough for a direct hit.

[funtz]

The ignorant journalists have put this on the national newspaper, couldnot believe my eyes when i was going through it.

Lets look at this.


Akash which is a SAM waiting complition of user trails, and is going though intensive tests as we speak, so that the matter of induction can be resolved. Its another one of DRDO "on forever" projects.

Now the PTI claims to have a news that

- This SAM is a Multi Target Missile, that is to say it can hit more that 1 target.
- This SAM has a 50KG nuclear warhead to do the hitting, now that means a willingness on the part of the India to allow nuclear weapon usage over her own soil.

This might just be the biggest BS ever ny the great indian defense journalists, or some one at DRDO thought that extracting some revenge for the negative reports on DRDO was a good idea, as 1st of April is still far away.

[Awang se]

This SAM has a 50KG nuclear warhead to do the hitting, now that means a willingness on the part of the India to allow nuclear weapon usage over her own soil.

i believe the nuke was intended to detonate above the atmosphere. The Russian and united States have a comparable Anti-Missile system. Of course there will be some effect on the ground (EMP mainly) but it will be far less then the one that'll explode 600 meters above Indian soil.

[funtz]

i believe the nuke was intended to detonate above the atmosphere. The Russian and united States have a comparable Anti-Missile system. Of course there will be some effect on the ground (EMP mainly) but it will be far less then the one that'll explode 600 meters above Indian soil.

Which kind of defeats the work the other project team working on the missile shield is doing on PAD(prithvi air defence) and AAD(advanced air defence). Apparently with some success and claiming to start installation in 3 years.
http://www.defencetalk.com/forums/ext.php?ref=http://www.outlookindia.com/pti_news.asp?id=526629

What is a multi-target missile are they talking about the ability of the whole air defense system with the radar to handle more than one target at a time?

[EnigmaNZ]

Another report mentioned the missiles radar could handle 100 targets simitaneously, I think it said the onboard radar, but that seems rather wasteful.

[kams]

As far as I am aware, the old Cold War adage still exists that as expensive it is to develop & deploy an ABM system; for the aggressor it is far cheaper to counter it or simply overwhelm it. And with missile flight times varying from 5mins-15mins; I don't see how Akash would help unless it targetted incoming missiles in their boost phase.


Akash is anti-aircraft, not anti-missile missile. Just look at it's Range, Max height and max speed, how can it intercept Ballistic missile? DRDO is testing AKash against Lakshya, a Target drone. DRDO also leased Mirach for there trials.

As for BMD, it also forces the country without BMD to spend more to build up missile inventory, in the hopes of saturating the BMD. Why do you think US and Former USSR had ABM treaty?

[kams]

using nuke warhead means the missile are not accurate enough for a direct hit.


That report is mostly DDM (Desi Dork Media). Akash is meant for Indian Air force, meant to protect Airfields etc. Not much point in protecting the airfield if you own SAM coverts it in to a Radio active wasteland!!!:)

[kams]

Another report mentioned the missiles radar could handle 100 targets simitaneously, I think it said the onboard radar, but that seems rather wasteful.

They are talking about 3D CAR, BSR and BLR (Rajendra), not onboard seeker.

[SABRE]

Due to continues violations of the forum by INDIANBULL, I am closing down all India related Threads under my jurisdiction until action has been taken by the Admin & Supermods.

The threads would be reopened after consultations with the Admin & moderators' board.

Meanwhile it is recommended to all the members not to open any new India related thread or a clone of the older ones.

Sorry for the inconvenience.

[SABRE]

Thread Reactivated

[funtz]

Surface to Air Akash missile declared ready for induction

By PTI
Friday December 21, 08:12 PM

New Delhi, Dec 21 (PTI) India's Surface to Air Akash missile was cleared by the Government today for induction into the Armed forces after a series of trials in the last few days successfully proved the weapon's "kill capability." The induction came close on the heels of successful firing of the long range surface to surface nuclear capable missile Agni and strides in indigenous development of an anti-missile system.

An official announcement here said a series of user trials of the missile over the last days at the Interim Missile Test Range in Balasore in Orissa had been " fully successfull" demonstrating the weapon's intended objective.

"The evaluation of the missle has been completed and the weapon system is now available for indigenoous production," Sitanshu Kar, the Defence Ministry spokesman said.

" The missile system is uniquely configured and customised for Indian Air Force and Indian Army", the spokesman said in significant remarks clarifying that Indian defence scientists had now managed to rectify flaws in the missile.


http://in.news.yahoo.com/071221/20/6oqg7.html

This part is fine, its a surface to air missile system that is capable of handling more than one threat simultaneously. And after a long time is finally ready for induction, the user trails etc. all done, finished, ready to be inducted anytime now.

It is a very popular national news paper (Times of India) giving a report that states


NEW DELHI: India on Friday test fired Akash, the nuclear capable surface-to-air missile, from the test range of Chandipore-on-sea in Balasore district of Orissa. It was the fifth and last trial, a defence ministry spokesperson said.

In the finale of the 10-day user's campaign, the missile destroyed an unmanned aerial vehicle which was simulating an air attack. The warhead was destroyed soon after the guided missile was launched.

With the conclusion of trials, Akash will now go for indigenous production. The missile system is uniquely configured and customised for the Army and the air force.

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/India/Akash_missile_set_for_production/articleshow/2642082.cms

This i do not follow.

Well of course if one has a 50-55 Kg nuclear warhead then every missile capable of carrying that 50-55 Kg warhead can be a nuclear capable missile, however why on earth will a SAM be nuclear capable?
Have there been any SAMs in history that were envisioned to use a "nuclear capability" if need be?
The whole trails i suppose judged the ability of the missile to hit a threat that has been detected and tracked by the systems radar.

[Chrom]

http://in.news.yahoo.com/071221/20/6oqg7.html

This part is fine, its a surface to air missile system that is capable of handling more than one threat simultaneously. And after a long time is finally ready for induction, the user trails etc. all done, finished, ready to be inducted anytime now.

It is a very popular national news paper (Times of India) giving a report that states


http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/India/Akash_missile_set_for_production/articleshow/2642082.cms

This i do not follow.

Well of course if one has a 50-55 Kg nuclear warhead then every missile capable of carrying that 50-55 Kg warhead can be a nuclear capable missile, however why on earth will a SAM be nuclear capable?
Have there been any SAMs in history that were envisioned to use a "nuclear capability" if need be?
The whole trails i suppose judged the ability of the missile to hit a threat that has been detected and tracked by the systems radar.

1. Abiltity to hit relative tight bomber formations.
2. Ability to serve as ABM.
3. Ability to work in heavy ECM enveronment by guiding missile manually and then denotating warhead close to target.

[funtz]

1. Abiltity to hit relative tight bomber formations.
2. Ability to serve as ABM.
3. Ability to work in heavy ECM enveronment by guiding missile manually and then denotating warhead close to target.

Interesting, indeed that is an advantage in case of a very intensive war for survival.
And given that a national news paper has reported the nuclear capable part twice their has to be some basis for the statement, i suppose.

about the Akash Surface to Air Missile from the only resource covering it to some details.


This allows the missile to carry a heavier warhead (60 kg). The solid-propellant booster accelerates the missile in 4.5 seconds to Mach 1.5, which is then jettisoned and the ramjet motor is then ignited for 30 seconds to Mach 2.8 - 3.5 at 20g. Akash has a range of 27 km, with an effective ceiling of 15 km.


So the questions that i will like someone to answer are:

- What will be the capability of a 50-55KG nuclear device?

- When this nuclear device detonates at an altitude of 15 Km from surface what effect will it have on the ground below?

[Grand Danois]

Have there been any SAMs in history that were envisioned to use a "nuclear capability" if need be?

Yes. Both against air and ground targets.

Some examples.

http://www.designation-systems.net/dusrm/m-14.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RIM-8_Talos

[kato]

On the US side... also Spartan and Sprint for ABM, and also Hawk and Terrier of course. Um... what else... Typhon LR, RIM-66M and RIM-67D Standard of course, the Bomarc-B ramjet SAMs... um, that's it i think. For ground-launched stuff anyway, the list for AAM is a bit longer.

During the cold war up till the 80s, Nike Hercules and Hawk sites throughout Europe were standard-equipped with nuclear warheads.

On the Soviet side ... ermmm... about everything of the bigger kind (i.e. with the requisite range) had nukes available in some version - meaning S-25, S-75E, S-200, S-300PS.

[Chrom]

Interesting, indeed that is an advantage in case of a very intensive war for survival.
And given that a national news paper has reported the nuclear capable part twice their has to be some basis for the statement, i suppose.

about the Akash Surface to Air Missile from the only resource covering it to some details.



[/COLOR][/FONT][/SIZE]
As if ANY employing of nuclear weapon is not the question about war for survival...

[EnigmaNZ]

The W48 was 846 mm long and weighed 58 kg; it could be fitted in a 155 mm M-45 AFAP (artillery fired atomic projectile) and used in a more standard 155 mm howitzer. The fission warhead was a linear implosion type, consisting of a long cylinder of subcritical mass which is compressed and shaped by explosive into a supercritical sphere. The W48 yielded just 72 tons TNT equivalent.
The Mk-54 Davy Crockett was designed to be fired from the M-388 recoilless rifle. Weighing only 23 kg, the warhead in its casing was 400 mm by 273 mm. It was first tested in October 1958 as part of Operation Hardtack and yielded 10 tons, but later developments increased that to 1 kt.

So lightweight warheads have been available for a long time in the West, so it is entirely possible that India may have a suitable <60Kg design using the simpler gun or linear implosion type.