Saudi Arabia may Order 24 more Typhoons

[SaudiArabian]

Saudi may order 24 Eurofighter jets
Sat Nov 17, 2007 6:46am EST

DUBAI (Reuters) - Saudi Arabia could order 24 Eurofighter Typhoon combat jets from BAE Systems for about 1.5 billion pounds ($3.06 billion), the Middle East Economic Digest (MEED) reported on Friday.

Saudi Arabia and Britain announced in September a 4.43 billion pound deal for 72 of the Eurofighters.

"The kingdom is set to decommission a number of aircraft and is thinking about a possible order for 24 more Eurofighters," MEED quoted an adviser to the Saudi government, that it did not identify, as saying.

"There is a need for new aircraft given the situation in the region, particularly the issue of Iran," the adviser was quoted as saying.

Saudi Arabia would also consider French fighter Rafale, made by Dassault Aviation , or the upgraded Boeing F-15, but favoured the Eurofighter, the adviser said.

Saudi Arabia and Britain have signed arms deals since the 1960s, including the Al Yamamah arms-for-oil pacts first signed in the 1980s which have produced an estimated 43 billion pounds of business.

© Reuters2007All rights reserved
http://www.reuters.com/article/businessNew...714982220071117 (http://www.reuters.com/article/businessNews/idUSL1714982220071117)


i remember an early statement by Prince Sultan (in late december of 2005) that the Saudi plans are to aquire more than 200 Typhoon Eurofighters

[jaffo4011]

Saudi may order 24 Eurofighter jets
Sat Nov 17, 2007 6:46am EST

DUBAI (Reuters) - Saudi Arabia could order 24 Eurofighter Typhoon combat jets from BAE Systems for about 1.5 billion pounds ($3.06 billion), the Middle East Economic Digest (MEED) reported on Friday.

Saudi Arabia and Britain announced in September a 4.43 billion pound deal for 72 of the Eurofighters.

"The kingdom is set to decommission a number of aircraft and is thinking about a possible order for 24 more Eurofighters," MEED quoted an adviser to the Saudi government, that it did not identify, as saying.

"There is a need for new aircraft given the situation in the region, particularly the issue of Iran," the adviser was quoted as saying.

Saudi Arabia would also consider French fighter Rafale, made by Dassault Aviation , or the upgraded Boeing F-15, but favoured the Eurofighter, the adviser said.

Saudi Arabia and Britain have signed arms deals since the 1960s, including the Al Yamamah arms-for-oil pacts first signed in the 1980s which have produced an estimated 43 billion pounds of business.

© Reuters2007All rights reserved
http://www.reuters.com/article/businessNew...714982220071117 (http://www.reuters.com/article/businessNews/idUSL1714982220071117)


i remember an early statement by Prince Sultan (in late december of 2005) that the Saudi plans are to aquire more than 200 Typhoon Eurofighters

i hope this goes through,it will be fantastic news for the uk and eurofighter.
in addition it will strengthen the saudi's airforce against potential threats.

as an aside i wonder if the recent scares with the grounding of the usaf f15's has had any bearing on this issue.

[harryriedl]

i hope this goes through,it will be fantastic news for the uk and eurofighter.
in addition it will strengthen the saudi's airforce against potential threats.

as an aside i wonder if the recent scares with the grounding of the usaf f15's has had any bearing on this issue.
well what ive gathered the French are person non grata so the Rafs out.
the F15 grownding will put off the Saudis buying more plus its an old desgin and their fleet is being upgraded [GE engins] like their Gr1 or is Gr4 im not sure.

im sure the Typoon will be getting more orders from Saudia arabia but how will the partener nations be effected they can't seem to get enough aircraft in servise quick enough. can they ramp up production so that the partners are delayed two much

[Musashi_kenshin]

im sure the Typoon will be getting more orders from Saudia arabia but how will the partener nations be effected they can't seem to get enough aircraft in servise quick enough. can they ramp up production so that the partners are delayed two much

I don't think more orders would affect European deliveries - more Saudi planes would probably have to wait until partner countries got their tranche 2 planes.

[Waylander]

Or partner nations are happy about changing from early to late slots in favor of export customers...

[Alpha Epsilon]

Eurofighter GmbH shouldn't have a problem delivering aircraft quickly, the UK should be glad to divert aircraft and take up later slots, it makes the 232 aircraft for the UK more affordable and it increases the production run. Final Assembly capacity shouldn't be affected as these 24 would probably be added to the 48 (of the initial 72) that will be assembled in Saudi-Arabia. I would be quite surprised if the RSAF did not order more than 72, actually over time I could imagine them ordering more than 96 Eurofighter Typhoons. With around 140 Eurofighter Typhoons produced the programme is picking up speed quite nicely, 87 export Eurofighter Typhoons signed for and BAE Systems alone is talking to more than 10 countries about the Eurofighter Typhoon, add the countries EADS and Finmeccanica are talking to and you get around 20 interested countries currently.

[JWCook]

The final assembly part is relatively easy, the long lead items and expensive tooling are the bottle necks, 5 axis mills and large autoclaves spring to mind, these items are complex, expensive and require suitable environments, these are the bottlenecks not final assembly.

But if the Japanese order 100+, then it may become economical to add capacity, remember it may take a few years to setup addition sites/machinery, the project is huge, complex, and political and this sort of step change in production is not to be taken lightly.

Your looking at ~2012-14 for that extra capacity to actually kick in to deliver aircraft to customers if you started right now.

Cheers

[jaffo4011]

within a couple of years the export potential of the typhoon has increased massively and could well be the best selling next gen fighter bar the f35 with the saudi and austrian orders already on the move and a good chance of winning the indian and japanese competitions too.
development and production costs may well be reduced as a result,to the benefit of all the partners

perhaps the u.s should be taking a look as a way of replacing their f15's with the typhoon at a much lower cost than buying additional f22's but with more capability in the air to air role than the f35!:)

id sell my left butt cheek if that happened!

[harryriedl]

within a couple of years the export potential of the typhoon has increased massively and could well be the best selling next gen fighter bar the f35 with the saudi and austrian orders already on the move and a good chance of winning the indian and japanese competitions too.
development and production costs may well be reduced as a result,to the benefit of all the partners

perhaps the u.s should be taking a look as a way of replacing their f15's with the typhoon at a much lower cost than buying additional f22's but with more capability in the air to air role than the f35!:)

id sell my left butt cheek if that happened!
its certainly the best selling Euro-fighter now the sky the limit

[barra]

within a couple of years the export potential of the typhoon has increased massively and could well be the best selling next gen fighter bar the f35 with the saudi and austrian orders already on the move and a good chance of winning the indian and japanese competitions too.
development and production costs may well be reduced as a result,to the benefit of all the partners

perhaps the u.s should be taking a look as a way of replacing their f15's with the typhoon at a much lower cost than buying additional f22's but with more capability in the air to air role than the f35!:)

id sell my left butt cheek if that happened!

When was the last time the Americans operated a foreign made fighter jet? The decision to buy foreign fighters would be way to unpalatable for any US President to consider. I reckon any "cheap" stop gap measure to replace old F-15's would revolve around Super Hornets for the USAF.

I think your left butt cheek is safe!! :)

Barra

[eckherl]

The issue with the F-15 could possibly get the U.S Air Force additional F-22 purchases.

[jaffo4011]

When was the last time the Americans operated a foreign made fighter jet? The decision to buy foreign fighters would be way to unpalatable for any US President to consider. I reckon any "cheap" stop gap measure to replace old F-15's would revolve around Super Hornets for the USAF.

I think your left butt cheek is safe!! :)

Barra

i guessed it might be!...however the americans dont mind flying our hawk trainers so....................

[Izzy1]

i guessed it might be!...however the americans dont mind flying our hawk trainers so....................

Easy now jaffo4011 - that deal was a little bit different.

Under UK Government/MoD instruction, BAE traded Harrier technologywith McDonnell Douglas for a very significant US Navy- Hawk sale. One we may even now extend to India.

[jaffo4011]

hey,im only joking.

it was a very tongue in cheek statement.i cant ever imagine that the us would buy foreign.it only ever works the other way when we are talking fighters and combat aircraft...

shouldn't be tho,if the u.s valued free trade as much as they say they do......

we could always call it the Macdonald Douglas/Boeing typhoon......:onfloorl:

[Izzy1]

The RSAF will order 24 new Typhoons - this is an Air Force which feels obliged to strike.

[metro]

I didn't see this discussed (sorry if I missed it).
-I read that these typhoons' will be fitted with french avionics/targeting pod.
Is that your (collective) understanding?
-The typhoons that the UK have use the Lightening 3 instead, right?

Thanks swerve & radiosilence,
I just found the the article I read a while ago (slightly different than radiosilence's link).
Yeah, I don't know if avionics=navigation, or if they're two completely different things?

snippet from geo-strat.org
"Industry sources said the Saudi Eurofighter would be equipped with a French-origin navigation and targeting pod. Saudi Arabia also plans to acquire 30 Damocles pods for the upgrade of its Tornada fighter-jet fleet. Damocles has been manufactured by the Paris-based Thales.
Under the deal, Thales would subcontract pod component assembly to the Saudi firm Advanced Electronics Co. The United Arab Emirates has also purchased Damocles."

[swerve]

I didn't see this discussed (sorry if I missed it).
-I read that these typhoons' will be fitted with french avionics/targeting pod.
Is that your (collective) understanding?
-The typhoons that the UK have use the Lightening 3 instead, right?

Correct, RAF Typhoons use the Litening 3.

I'm sure you're right that the Saudis will buy a different targeting pod - an Israeli product is a no-no, even if made elsewhere. I've seen suggestions that they'll use the Thales Damocles, which AFAIK has been selected for their Tornado upgrade. But I don't see any reason why any other French avionics would be fitted.

[radiosilence]

I came across this article a few weeks back with regards to the Saudis choosing Damocles for their Typhoons.

Saudi choice for targeting pod won’t be Israeli

Typhoon combat aircraft destined for Saudi Arabia are set to be fitted with a French-made targeting pod rather than the Israeli system fitted by the British Royal Air Force.
BAE Systems inked a deal earlier this year to deliver 72 Typhoons to the Saudi air force. Part of that agreement involves Thales supplying the Damocles designator pod, said industry sources at the show....


link (http://www.isrjournal.com/story.php?F=3185129)

[eaf-f16]

Am I the only one who gets the feeling that as soon as RSAF gets their Typhoons the IAF will start retrofitting their F-15I's with AESA's? USAF did that to their F-15E's so it's plausible that Israelis would.

[swerve]

Am I the only one who gets the feeling that as soon as RSAF gets their Typhoons the IAF will start retrofitting their F-15I's with AESA's? USAF did that to their F-15E's so it's plausible that Israelis would.

USAF hasn't begun retrofitting its F-15Es yet, though it has (after a couple of years dithering) decided to go ahead, & decided which radar. Should begin soon.

It retrofitted 18 F-15Cs several years ago, & the ANG has begun retrofitting some of its F-15Cs - first 6 contracted for in the current budget.

[Izzy1]

I came across this article a few weeks back with regards to the Saudis choosing Damocles for their Typhoons.




link (http://www.isrjournal.com/story.php?F=3185129)

Damocles is BAE's choice for TSP-Tornado. RSAF has shown a bit of resistance to it. But...

[oxforduniversit]

I like the Eurofighter but the Russian SU-27, SU-30, SU-37, SU-37 or MIG-35 are better fighters. At least there are not buying the ridiculously expensive F-35 or F-22 jets, a waste of money.

It is too bad they wouldn't wait another 3 years as Russia has it's new T-50 super jet fighter set for release to out due both the F-35 and F-22 but better yet, a lot cheaper too.

[old faithful]

I like the Eurofighter but the Russian SU-27, SU-30, SU-37, SU-37 or MIG-35 are better fighters. At least there are not buying the ridiculously expensive F-35 or F-22 jets, a waste of money.

It is too bad they wouldn't wait another 3 years as Russia has it's new T-50 super jet fighter set for release to out due both the F-35 and F-22 but better yet, a lot cheaper too.

my God! What are you studieing at Oxford? Art? :onfloorl:

[harryriedl]

my God! What are you studieing at Oxford? Art? :onfloorl:
i think perhapses is creative writing :onfloorl:

[oxforduniversit]

What so American jets are best best best? Everything in America is best best best? No matter what it is America is the best and don't buy anything else?
Are you just Pro American and love your country and feel you have the best of everything?

Do you hate Russian fighters?
If so why are so many countries buying more Russian miltary arsenals
over the US? Tell me why is Russia the top seller in miltary equipment? Do you know how many F-22's have been sold in the last 5 years? Take a guess

Do you know how many Russian SU-27, SU-30, SU-37, SU-37 or MIG-35 have been sold in the last few years besides the MIG-35? Take guess

I suggest you read about the new Russian T-50:nutkick

[Waylander]

And another one bites the dust...

Back to topic.

I found the question of eaf-f16 rather interesting.
Are there plans in the IAF to upgrade the current fleet (Besides the possible F-35 purchase)?

[oxforduniversit]

It is about the topic.

[eckherl]

What so American jets are best best best? Everything in America is best best best? No matter what it is America is the best and don't buy anything else?
Are you just Pro American and love your country and feel you have the best of everything?

Do you hate Russian fighters?
If so why are so many countries buying more Russian miltary arsenals
over the US? Tell me why is Russia the top seller in miltary equipment? Do you know how many F-22's have been sold in the last 5 years? Take a guess

Do you know how many Russian SU-27, SU-30, SU-37, SU-37 or MIG-35 have been sold in the last few years besides the MIG-35? Take guess

I suggest you read about the new Russian T-50:nutkick

In your opinion Russian aircraft are better over F-22 and Typhoons, why because of cost or do you know some dirty little secrets that the pentagon is keeping from the Americans in regards to the F-22. What gives the Tyhpoon a lagging edge over Russian aircraft.:unknown

[kato]

I know i shouldn't, but...

Tell me why is Russia the top seller in miltary equipment?

Russian total volume in the 1999 to 2006 period was $54.316 billion worldwide (17% market share). US volume for the same period was $123.543 billion (39% of world market).
The European "Big Four" (France, UK, Germany, Italy) combined scored $67.122 billion in sales over the same period (21% of world market).

[oxforduniversit]

If the adminstrators would allow me to incert links, I have some Russian figures to provide what Russia has sold. Second, you forgot Ukraine, Kazakhstan and Belarus too, all are still connected to Russia's miltary companies (what they make and sell) as well and lets not forget Russia's private miltary companies too. Also the big 4 are NATO and the US is part of those figures. Take NATO out and what do you have?

And that is not off the topic

[kato]

Also the big 4 are NATO and the US is part of those figures. Take NATO out and what do you have?
Sales to developing nations by:

USA - $79.533 billion
Russia - $51.159 billion
"EU Big Four" - $36.472 billion (France, UK, Germany, Italy)
"Other European" - $18.398 billion (includes eg. Ukraine, Romania, Sweden, Spain)
China - $10.119 billion

Other Nations - $14.746 billion (includes eg. South Africa, Canada, Brazil)

lets not forget Russia's private miltary companies too
Note that these are the entire arms exports of these nations.

And that is not off the topic
Oh, it definitely is.

[old faithful]

If the adminstrators would allow me to incert links, I have some Russian figures to provide what Russia has sold. Second, you forgot Ukraine, Kazakhstan and Belarus too, all are still connected to Russia's miltary companies (what they make and sell) as well and lets not forget Russia's private miltary companies too. Also the big 4 are NATO and the US is part of those figures. Take NATO out and what do you have?

And that is not off the topic

...errr...Saudi Arabia may order 24 more Typhoons....:unknown is the topic....and they are NOT American aircraft...

[adam-alm]

Anyone knows when the Saudis will get their 1st delivery of eurifighters?

[Scorpion82]

Anyone knows when the Saudis will get their 1st delivery of eurifighters?

It is planned from next year onwards. Probably from summer or later that year.

[Izzy1]

It is planned from next year onwards. Probably from summer or later that year.

I'm truly sick and tired of saying this, here on DT.


Saudi's first 24 Typhoons will be drawn direct from current RAF tranche 2 Production.

Their following 48 will be built - in kit-form, within Kingdom.

[Izzy1]

I'm truly sick and tired of saying this here on DT.

For the ninth time.

Saudi's first 24 Typhoons will be drawn direct from current RAF tranche 2 Production.

Their following 48 will be built - in kit-form, within Kingdom.


RSAF are now looking at another 24 Typhoon's short term - to replace their 1970's block F-15C/Ds.

[adam-alm]

i didnt think the f-15s were due for replacing . They cost the Govt a fortune i thought the saudis were gonna retire the old f-5s and some tornadoes for the eurofighters. It would be silly to retire the f-15s they are still one of the worlds best jets .

[Scorpion82]

I'm truly sick and tired of saying this, here on DT.


Saudi's first 24 Typhoons will be drawn direct from current RAF tranche 2 Production.

Their following 48 will be built - in kit-form, within Kingdom.

Have I said something different? Please read carefully before acussing someone for things they haven't said. The question was when the first aircraft will be delivered and the answer is from next year. Block 8 is scheduled for delivery from summer 2008, so that's the earlies date first RSAF aircraft will be delivered.

RSAF are now looking at another 24 Typhoon's short term - to replace their 1970's block F-15C/Ds.

That is what the topic is all about, additional 24 Typhoons for the RSAF next to the 72 currently ordered.

[eaf-f16]

RSAF are now looking at another 24 Typhoon's short term - to replace their 1970's block F-15C/Ds.

Maybe, to replace A/B models? Did Saudi Arabia receive any? Because to me-unless this is an issue about the airframes being worn out-C/D model F-15's pretty much match anything in the Middle East and should meet RSAF requirements for an A2A fighter unless KSA is looking for something superior to what everyone else has.

[Scorpion82]

Maybe, to replace A/B models? Did Saudi Arabia receive any? Because to me-unless this is an issue about the airframes being worn out-C/D model F-15's pretty much match anything in the Middle East and should meet RSAF requirements for an A2A fighter unless KSA is looking for something superior to what everyone else has.

No the RSAF never received any A/B just C/D from 1986 if I remember right.

[eaf-f16]

No the RSAF never received any A/B just C/D from 1986 if I remember right.

If they received them on 1986 then what on earth would make RSAF want to replace them?:confused:

I think they are buying more to replace more of their Tornado's not their F-15's. I maybe wrong...

[Scorpion82]

If they received them on 1986 then what on earth would make RSAF want to replace them?:confused:

I think they are buying more to replace more of their Tornado's not their F-15's. I maybe wrong...

Because 20 years old aircraft are hardly new and need to be replaced in the not to distant future. BTW the RSAF just bought a limited number of Tornado ADV (AFAIK just 24 aircraft).

[SaudiArabian]

they were received in 1982

several F-15C's have crashed , current F-15C's flight hours are huge and its probably gonna pass its lifetime (if it didn't already!) , very few F-15S's are in hangars , one F-15S crashed and one is damaged

these planes might need replacement for their position , and if the replacement is by the Typhoons then i find it better and excellent choice because it moves Saudi Air Force away from the US and the complications of its congress and israeli lobby to the opened European neutral market

the F-5's are now for sale at 1.5 million$/plane , some of them are sold to Brazil while there's been news about Kenya and Mexico to buy some. few F-5's are still at service in Taif as last i know about.

advanced MIG-29 , MIG-35 or SU-(of any new kind) option would be an excellent strategic choice (after what recently happened in the Congress by stalling the 20 Billion $ deal by israel lobby) and will secure the Kingdom against external pressure BUT technicaly its a terrible choice because it will damage the capability , experience and training of the RSAF and will cost much more money that damages the KSA's economy.

[swerve]

If they received them on 1986 then what on earth would make RSAF want to replace them?:confused:

I think they are buying more to replace more of their Tornado's not their F-15's. I maybe wrong...

The newest F-15C is over 20 years old. The first was delivered in 1981, & I think the last in 1986. By the time they could begin replacing them (the Typhoons will replace the Tornado ADV initially), they'll be between 25 & 30 years old.

The Tornado IDS are undergoing an upgrade, including the integration of new weapons. The aircraft sent to the UK for development of the upgrade have been seen flying with Storm Shadows. I don't think they'll be replaced for a while.

I presume the F-15S is not scheduled for replacement yet. They were delivered in the 1990s, & are the newest type in service at the moment.

[Scorpion82]

Yes I have to correct my statement, Swerve is right the first example was delivered in 1981. The RSAF additionally received some new aircraft and some used after Operation Desert Storm.

[eaf-f16]

The newest F-15C is over 20 years old. The first was delivered in 1981, & I think the last in 1986. By the time they could begin replacing them (the Typhoons will replace the Tornado ADV initially), they'll be between 25 & 30 years old.

The Tornado IDS are undergoing an upgrade, including the integration of new weapons. The aircraft sent to the UK for development of the upgrade have been seen flying with Storm Shadows. I don't think they'll be replaced for a while.

I presume the F-15S is not scheduled for replacement yet. They were delivered in the 1990s, & are the newest type in service at the moment.

Oh, I see...

I wonder if any IAF F-15's are going to be retired soon. They have some of the older A/B models and I think they got their F-15's before Saudi did.

This may have been asked before but are Saudi Typhoons going to be British air-air missiles (ASRAAM, Meteor) or US-made ones (AIM-9X, AIM-120)?

[harryriedl]

Oh, I see...

I wonder if any IAF F-15's are going to be retired soon. They have some of the older A/B models and I think they got their F-15's before Saudi did.

This may have been asked before but are Saudi Typhoons going to be British air-air missiles (ASRAAM, Meteor) or US-made ones (AIM-9X, AIM-120)?

ASRAAM's a cert as its being integrated on the Tornadoes[the Saudi upgrades not the RAF planes] so it will be on the Typhoons i presumes sauid will be in on METEOR but don't know for sure

[eaf-f16]

And another one bites the dust...

Back to topic.

I found the question of eaf-f16 rather interesting.
Are there plans in the IAF to upgrade the current fleet (Besides the possible F-35 purchase)?

Apparently, there is. And like I said with AESA radars.

Tied closely to the F-35 procurement is a decision to upgrade the F-15s and F-16s, particularly with new AESA radars that offer more range, small-target detection and broadband communications. However, the advanced radars are expensive.

Here is the article:http://www.aviationweek.com/aw/generic/story_channel.jsp?channel=defense&id=news/aw121707p1.xml&headline=Israel%20Wants%20JSF%20As%20Soon%20As%20P ossible