Unknown Iraqi Armor

[hisself]

I just uploaded two photos of an Iraqi tracked weapon. I believe that it is artillery, rather than a tank, but I could be wrong.

Can anybody identify it for me, please.

The pictures are (or will be when approved) in Home » World Armed Forces » Rest of the World » Asian Armed Forces » Middle East » ME_Army

Thanks,

[eckherl]

I just uploaded two photos of an Iraqi tracked weapon. I believe that it is artillery, rather than a tank, but I could be wrong.

Can anybody identify it for me, please.

The pictures are (or will be when approved) in Home » World Armed Forces » Rest of the World » Asian Armed Forces » Middle East » ME_Army

Thanks,

They are Russian 2S3 152mm self propelled howitzers, which Iraq used extensively.

[Sgt.Banes]

I just uploaded two photos of an Iraqi tracked weapon. I believe that it is artillery, rather than a tank, but I could be wrong.

Can anybody identify it for me, please.

The pictures are (or will be when approved) in Home » World Armed Forces » Rest of the World » Asian Armed Forces » Middle East » ME_Army

Thanks,

Yeah, those are just some old Soviet Howitzers. Not to mention you found these pictures on this site, and I don't believe they are classified as "Unknown Iraqi Armour".

[Khairul Alam]

yeah they are howitzers all right...but they surely dont seem to be in fighting shape!! they are probably remnants of the previous wars.

[eckherl]

Look at the second picture and you can see a projectile penetration point towards the rear of the turret.

[Manfred2]

Look at the second picture and you can see a projectile penetration point towards the rear of the turret.

A very small hole, a 50 cal. could have done that.
Covered with dirt... looks like a vehicle that was pulled out of it's own grave, like that Mig-25 from a while back

[grndpndr]

Interesting particularly to a military vehicle restoration outfit assuming any parts could be found for it.The turret hole does appear to be 12.7-14.5.
might have just buried it due to obsolescence and or functionally inoperative.
Iraq wasnt even inpossesion of steel recycling facilitys hearths etc to recylce such a substantial chunk of high quality steel or distance expense prohibitive?

[eckherl]

Interesting particularly to a military vehicle restoration outfit assuming any parts could be found for it.The turret hole does appear to be 12.7-14.5.
might have just buried it due to obsolescence and or functionally inoperative.
Iraq wasnt even inpossesion of steel recycling facilitys hearths etc to recylce such a substantial chunk of high quality steel or distance expense prohibitive?

Getting parts are really not too difficult, Russia still has this vehicle in it`s inventory. China has a copy of it also called the Type 83. Yes, 50 cal API will penetrate this vehicle.

[swerve]

Interesting particularly to a military vehicle restoration outfit assuming any parts could be found for it.The turret hole does appear to be 12.7-14.5.
might have just buried it due to obsolescence and or functionally inoperative.
Iraq wasnt even inpossesion of steel recycling facilitys hearths etc to recylce such a substantial chunk of high quality steel or distance expense prohibitive?

I don't think Iraq has the facilities. Iran does, is right next door, & a large proportion of the old Iraqi army inventory of AFVs & artillery, including most of the casualties of 2003, is reported to have been carted off to feed Iranian steel mills. Looks as if they missed some.

[eckherl]

I don't think Iraq has the facilities. Iran does, is right next door, & a large proportion of the old Iraqi army inventory of AFVs & artillery, including most of the casualties of 2003, is reported to have been carted off to feed Iranian steel mills. Looks as if they missed some.

That is not the case with all vehicles that have battlefield damage, if they can pull servicable parts off or get a vehicle back in running order this is what they are doing, they do have facilities to refurbish these vehicles, provided by the U.S. The artillery piece pictured should not be that big of a issue to get back in running order.

[Sgt.Banes]

Getting parts are really not too difficult, Russia still has this vehicle in it`s inventory. China has a copy of it also called the Type 83. Yes, 50 cal API will penetrate this vehicle.

To some degree China makes (rips off) most Soviet and Russian Federation, so they're lousy with parts for almost any Russian military vehicle.

[eckherl]

To some degree China makes (rips off) most Soviet and Russian Federation, so they're lousy with parts for almost any Russian military vehicle.

:onfloorl: You may be in for it now. That may be the case, but Iraq did recieve so called vehicle upgrades and parts from China.

[swerve]

That is not the case with all vehicles that have battlefield damage, if they can pull servicable parts off or get a vehicle back in running order this is what they are doing, they do have facilities to refurbish these vehicles, provided by the U.S. The artillery piece pictured should not be that big of a issue to get back in running order.

I'd like to know how many of the pre-2003 AFV & artillery stock hasn't been scrapped, & how much is repairable, but it seems hard to get hold of any numbers. Sometimes, I think nobody is counting. Ah well.

[Sgt.Banes]

:onfloorl: You may be in for it now. That may be the case, but Iraq did recieve so called vehicle upgrades and parts from China.

I'm just giving out Kool-Aid. :cool:

Again China is the King of Military Counterfeiting, I mean China makes some of Russia's uniforms and insignia. That's like a Made in China American flag.

[Waylander]

I'd like to know how many of the pre-2003 AFV & artillery stock hasn't been scrapped, & how much is repairable, but it seems hard to get hold of any numbers. Sometimes, I think nobody is counting. Ah well.

In the end it may be much easier to purchase some more ore less operational vehicles and equipment from eastern europe and start completely new than to collect all the more or less broken junk lying around in Iraq and try to build an arym out of it.

As for the counting.
Remember the hundreds of thousands of small arms delivered by the US which are missing... ;)

[eckherl]

I'm just giving out Kool-Aid. :cool:

Again China is the King of Military Counterfeiting, I mean China makes some of Russia's uniforms and insignia. That's like Made in China American flag.

I wonder how much of Russia`s uniform buttons and insignia contain lead based paint.:unknown

[grndpndr]

with the price of obsolescent chin and russ functioning equipment its quite likely the cost of refurbishing this equipment prohibitive compared to purchasing working examples.Still seems wastefull unless the vehicle was just plain scrap as far as further utility was concerened w/o major overhaul in which case worse than useless.Obviously it had either major problems or ws in danger of being captured?

[swerve]

with the price of obsolescent chin and russ functioning equipment its quite likely the cost of refurbishing this equipment prohibitive compared to purchasing working examples.Still seems wastefull unless the vehicle was just plain scrap as far as further utility was concerened w/o major overhaul in which case worse than useless.Obviously it had either major problems or ws in danger of being captured?

When the Iraqi army was dissolved by the US administration, all the guards, repair crews - everyone - was sacked. The sacked soldiers took what was portable & either useful or saleable, & left the rest to rust.

Yes, very wasteful. But that's what the US administration of Iraq in 2003 was like.

[merocaine]

I wonder how much of Russia`s uniform buttons and insignia contain lead based paint.

Ha Ha, as long as the recruits arent chewing on them they should be Ok!

[eckherl]

When the Iraqi army was dissolved by the US administration, all the guards, repair crews - everyone - was sacked. The sacked soldiers took what was portable & either useful or saleable, & left the rest to rust.

Yes, very wasteful. But that's what the US administration of Iraq in 2003 was like.

A very big blunder on the U.S part. one could only amagine the additional amount of funds that we wasted and the Iraqis to get this corrected and up and running again.

[Waylander]

Not only funds but lifes.

Imagine all the people which could have been protected by a functioning Iraqi army and police force.
Not to forget the things some of the former soldiers did after leaving the army and instead joining the rebells...

Is there a statistic about of there is any equipment left from the past which is in use now with the ne Iraqi army?
I mean when one has to ship AKs to Iraq I cannot imagine anything from the past is still used.

[eckherl]

Not only funds but lifes.

Imagine all the people which could have been protected by a functioning Iraqi army and police force.
Not to forget the things some of the former soldiers did after leaving the army and instead joining the rebells...

Is there a statistic about of there is any equipment left from the past which is in use now with the ne Iraqi army?
I mean when one has to ship AKs to Iraq I cannot imagine anything from the past is still used.

I agree, there was Iraqi soldiers who wanted to stay in uniform and we turned them away. I know some of the older Type series MBTs along with T-72s were able to be salvaged along with some of the BMPs and other land equipment, but yes they are having to also buy alot of new equipment from some of the eastern Europeans. Swerve brought up a good point of interest that it would be interesting to know the actual numbers, they are most likely very low due to the amount of equipment being purchased.

[Sgt.Banes]

I wonder how much of Russia`s uniform buttons and insignia contain lead based paint.:unknown
That is a good question. :unknown

[Sgt.Banes]

Ha Ha, as long as the recruits arent chewing on them they should be Ok!
The Chechens may win the war against the Russians, if the Russian troops start chewing on them.

[eckherl]

That is a good question. :unknown

it will turn in to a mass recall and China will execute the owner of the manufacturing facility.:D

[Sgt.Banes]

it will turn in to a mass recall and China will execute the owner of the manufacturing facility.:DYou mean the one that is currently the replacement for the one that died under "mysterious circumstances".

[Waylander]

No, the Taiwanese owner of the factory will say sorry, close the factory and open a new one in the next city... ;)

[kickars]

Since when this thread has became a China bashing thread???!!!:( Don't you guys feel strange that toys were made in China suddenly became a hot issues since this summer(2007)??? Mind you, China has been making toys for overseas market since the early 80s!!! THINK!!! :rolleyes:

It is all because of the exchange rate between USD and RMB! Since Chinese government doesn't want to increase the value of its RMB as quickly as the US and some of the other western governments want, then this childish picking and blaming became western countries' final and only solution to force China to act as western countries' wish on this ECONOMICAL issue.

Of course you guys would never think this. You just see us as enemies as always. And I'm sure my post will be deleted as soon as it's posted. Your China bashing posts will stay here till everyone gets bored of this. :(

I can't believe this! What have we done to deserve all this? If we Chinese see you westerners this way (what you westerners have done to us in the history), then I can't imagine what would happen? :confused:

I saw a thread on this forum about why do we fight. I didn't open that thread. Coz I don't see the point to discuss this kind of topic. Coz the answer is RIGHT HERE!!!!!!!!:mad:

[eckherl]

Since when this thread has became a China bashing thread???!!!:( Don't you guys feel strange that toys were made in China suddenly became a hot issues since this summer(2007)??? Mind you, China has been making toys for overseas market since the early 80s!!! THINK!!! :rolleyes:

It is all because of the exchange rate between USD and RMB! Since Chinese government doesn't want to increase the value of its RMB as quickly as the US and some of the other western governments want, then this childish picking and blaming became western countries' final and only solution to force China to act as western countries' wish on this ECONOMICAL issue.

Of course you guys would never think this. You just see us as enemies as always. And I'm sure my post will be deleted as soon as it's posted. Your China bashing posts will stay here till everyone gets bored of this. :(

I can't believe this! What have we done to deserve all this? If we Chinese see you westerners this way (what you westerners have done to us in the history), then I can't imagine what would happen? :confused:

I saw a thread on this forum about why do we fight. I didn't open that thread. Coz I don't see the point to discuss this kind of topic. Coz the answer is RIGHT HERE!!!!!!!!:mad:

I do not see China as a enemy, just a country that has a passion for lead based paint and executing people for failure.

[kickars]

I do not see China as a enemy, just a country that has a passion for lead based paint and executing people for failure.

We have 1.3b people in China. Only very few people (maybe only less than 100 people in total) in the management level of those toy factories,who were and still are under the pressure of low costs from the western supermarkets and toy companies (ultimately western consumers) decide to use cheap paint (in this case lead based paint)!!!

So tell me, how could you say that you see China just as a country has a passion for lead based paint????????????!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:mad: :mad: :mad:

So can I say US is just a country that has a passion for shooting students????!!!! NOOOO! I would never say that! Coz your country has done so much for this world for the past 100 years or so. The shootings we saw on news were just some crazy people who even hated their own people. They might be Americans. But they are not AMERICA!!!!

[Waylander]

Take it easy.
That was just some fun.
You take this much tooooo seriously.

And I can tell you, the experience of operating on the chinese market can be a little bit disturbing if you are not used to it... ;)

[eckherl]

We have 1.3b people in China. Only very few people (maybe only less than 100 people in total) in the management level of those toy factories,who were and still are under the pressure of low costs from the countries which consume those toys decide to use cheap (in this case lead based paint)!!!

So tell me, how could you say that you see China just as a country has a passion for lead based paint????????????!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:mad: :mad: :mad:

So can I say US is just a country that has a passion for shooting students????!!!! NOOOO! I would never say that! Coz your country has done so much for the world for the past 100 years or so. The shootings we saw on news were just some crazy people who even hated their own people. They might be Americans. But they are not AMERICA!!!!

My country has a passion for all kinds of bad things, but hey no one is perfect and we should always strive to make things better, China should be concerned also with the health effects of lead based paint on workers in these toy assembly facilities, maybe you can start a crusade and put together a team to go over there and give them a mind broadening session. As far as executions go I like what China does to drug dealers and wish that we would follow suite, this would eliminate one of those bad passions from my country. I hope you do not think that I am biased against China because I really am not. Now to get back on topic do you know if China is supplying any type of weapons systems to Iraq.

[kickars]

My country has a passion for all kinds of bad things, but hey no one is perfect and we should always strive to make things better, China should be concerned also with the health effects of lead based paint on workers in these toy assembly facilities, maybe you can start a crusade and put together a team to go over there and give them a mind broadening session. As far as executions go I like what China does to drug dealers and wish that we would follow suite, this would eliminate one of those bad passions from my country. I hope you do not think that I am biased against China because I really am not. Now to get back on topic do you know if China is supplying any type of weapons systems to Iraq.

From this month Chinese government has banned all lead based for exporting. So I really think the government has got the massage. Now let's wait and see if those factory bosses got the massage or not.

I much prefer this reply than the others. Coz I can see you are trying to raise a issue regarding to China, rather than being biased a country as a whole. I do appreciate your latest reply.

Some of the 'BMP1s' in Iraqi army are actually the Chinese Type-86. It hard to see the difference. I'm not sure about the guns though.

[Sgt.Banes]

I just said that China could win the war for the Chechens.