The Current State of Iraqi Arms...?

[Manfred2]

Today {23 Oct.), I have heard some crazy things.

Estimates of Iraqi Army strength from 30 to 300 thousand men.
B-1 bombers being preped for Iraqi service :onfloorl:
and a host of other crazy things.

I need some help setting people straight here in the wilds of Oregon. Got any links, articles or Current first hand information?

[kato]

Washington Post: "Building Iraq's Army: Mission Improbable" (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/06/09/AR2005060902245_pf.html) (2005 though - but it's the classic)

Washington Post: "Iraqi Army Unable To Take Over Within A Year, Report Says" (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/09/05/AR2007090501282.html) (about a month old, so it's relatively new)

US DOD: Official "Handover" site (http://www.defenselink.mil/home/dodupdate/iraq-update/Handovers/index.html) (relatively current, rare updates)

UK MOD: "Irish Guards Train Iraqi Army" (http://www.mod.uk/DefenceInternet/DefenceNews/MilitaryOperations/IrishGuardsTrainIraqiArmy.htm) (current article; the number 30,000 pops up in there)

[Manfred2]

Thanks Kato.

So, the DOD says they have 350,000 men, but no details at all on what they are equipped with, or how those 96 battlaions are organized.

Well, its better then nothing. What I don't understand is why this site has no run-down one that Army and it's TO&E. I guess it changes too fast to keep up with... and then there is the security issue.:shudder

[kato]

So, the DOD says they have 350,000 men, but no details at all on what they are equipped with, or how those 96 battlaions are organized.


350,000 "security forces". That includes at least two-thirds as police forces.

The 97 battalions "in the lead" each supposedly contain "500-700 soldiers". That would average out to 58,200 soldiers.

[Waylander]

Some interesting things are that the Iraqi forces are appereantly a little bit weak in the support part.
I read reports that while everybody rushed to get as many frontline troops combat ready as possible the support branches are behind and so most parts of the Iraqi forces are not able to run operations on their own but have to rely on US support.

It is also interesting that 80.000-100.000 men in the Iraqi Army and Police are from Kurdish origin.
And these are the more reliable ones.

One can just imagine what happens if the situation in the north between the Kurds, Turkey and Iran turns really hot. I expect a lot of deserters travelling to the north which bring some nice equipment and, even more interesting, some good training with them.
Doesn't make live easier for the Turkish Armed Forces...

[Sgt.Banes]

Today {23 Oct.), I have heard some crazy things.

Estimates of Iraqi Army strength from 30 to 300 thousand men.
B-1 bombers being preped for Iraqi service :onfloorl:
and a host of other crazy things.

I need some help setting people straight here in the wilds of Oregon. Got any links, articles or Current first hand information?

I don't think its anywhere near 300,000 I mean that would be nearly as much as Saddam mustered(1981: 200,000 to 1985: 500,000) during the Iran-Iraq war. The estimate that I have made and that I've heard of myself are roughly 150,000 to 165,000. Not to mention they have 138 combat aircraft which rolls out to be 80 or so Chengdu J-7's, 53 Mirage F1's, and 5 Dassault-Breguet Super Étendards. Also they have a few Mi-8 transport helicopters, and few Mi-24 attack choppers that were donated.

[Chrom]

Some interesting things are that the Iraqi forces are appereantly a little bit weak in the support part.
I read reports that while everybody rushed to get as many frontline troops combat ready as possible the support branches are behind and so most parts of the Iraqi forces are not able to run operations on their own but have to rely on US support.

It is also interesting that 80.000-100.000 men in the Iraqi Army and Police are from Kurdish origin.
And these are the more reliable ones.

One can just imagine what happens if the situation in the north between the Kurds, Turkey and Iran turns really hot. I expect a lot of deserters travelling to the north which bring some nice equipment and, even more interesting, some good training with them.
Doesn't make live easier for the Turkish Armed Forces...
Iraq army number is sorta virtual thing. It heavely depended of what it will fight. For example, against kurds most soldiers of kurdish origin will desert or sabotage... against sunnits most soliders of sunnits origin will sabotage, same against shiits, Muqtada al-Sadr, etc.

However, this is normal thing for country involved in civil war...

[eckherl]

Some interesting things are that the Iraqi forces are appereantly a little bit weak in the support part.
I read reports that while everybody rushed to get as many frontline troops combat ready as possible the support branches are behind and so most parts of the Iraqi forces are not able to run operations on their own but have to rely on US support.

It is also interesting that 80.000-100.000 men in the Iraqi Army and Police are from Kurdish origin.
And these are the more reliable ones.

One can just imagine what happens if the situation in the north between the Kurds, Turkey and Iran turns really hot. I expect a lot of deserters travelling to the north which bring some nice equipment and, even more interesting, some good training with them.
Doesn't make live easier for the Turkish Armed Forces...

It was a matter of priorities for the Iraqi government and U.S forces, providing supporting elements will be the next phase that you will see, matter of fact it has already started.

[Firehorse]

Iraqi officers go missing in U.S. (http://washingtontimes.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20071206/NATION/112060084/1001)
I think this article doesn't need any comments. IMO, if those Iraqi officers are saving their skins while they can, there is no way for the so-called "Iraqi Army" & "security forces" to maintain stable numbers on the ground there.

[eckherl]

Iraqi officers go missing in U.S. (http://washingtontimes.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20071206/NATION/112060084/1001)
I think this article doesn't need any comments. IMO, if those Iraqi officers are saving their skins while they can, there is no way for the so-called "Iraqi Army" & "security forces" to maintain stable numbers on the ground there.

Then you should not of posted it, what are you tyring to accomplish by it.:rolleyes:

[Firehorse]

Negative. I can't just post a link here, you now that. I accomplished letting you all know about them deserting here, not only in Iraq. Now you can make your own judgement without me assisting you.

[Grand Danois]

Negative. I can't just post a link here, you now that. I accomplished letting you all know about them deserting here, not only in Iraq. Now you can make your own judgement without me assisting you.

Easy to pass judgement. The U.S. is a nice place to be. Many seek entry and/or asylum, the difference is that these guys get their tickets and entry paid. It's not an atypical pattern of illegal immigrants.

Tells you nada on the War in Iraq, nor loyalty of the people there.

F.i. my country has specific measures when granting sports teams from certain countries visa, because they tend to disappear as a whole.

Not material to conclude what you allude to.

[Firehorse]

"We are considered policewomen. We face kidnapping. We could be assassinated. If anyone knew where we worked, of course they would try to do something to us," said a 27-year-old interviewed Sunday.
http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/world/la-fg-policewomen11dec11,1,7397870.story?coll=la-headlines-world
Many men been hiding their involvement with coalition & Iraqi Government as well, for fear of isurgents getting them or their families.
More than two years of sectarian violence have replaced one country called Iraq with three emerging states: one Kurdish, one Sunni, and one Shiite.
http://www.motherjones.com/commentary/columns/2007/12/iraq-surge-great-awakening-anbar.html
"How do I know I’ll really get the job?” Abu Ali said he asked. “He told me, ‘I’ve put in 70 or 80 people already. Don’t worry about it.’”
Five months later, Abu Ali’s name appeared in the newspaper. At the police academy in September, he said, he discovered that most of his class was from Sadr City and that everyone paid $400 to $800 to join.
“There’s not a single person among the 850 people in my class who joined for free,” he said.
His commanders, he added, also now collect the salaries of recruits who quit, a payout of more than $100,000 a month. “No one can stop it,” Abu Ali said. “Corruption runs from top to bottom.” http://www.nytimes.com/2007/12/02/world/middleeast/02baghdad.html?hp=&pagewanted=all


IMO, the notion that Diversity is strength for new Iraqi Army (http://www.marines.mil/marinelink/mcn2000.nsf/ad983156332a819185256cb600677af3/c3aa9761c2ab32c985257345001a7b77?OpenDocument) will have to endure well past the "surge" to be believable.

[DefConGuru]

Today {23 Oct.), I have heard some crazy things.

Estimates of Iraqi Army strength from 30 to 300 thousand men.
B-1 bombers being preped for Iraqi service :onfloorl:
and a host of other crazy things.

I need some help setting people straight here in the wilds of Oregon. Got any links, articles or Current first hand information?

I would be focusing more on paramilitary and military police first, there needs to be a stable infrastructure at ground level, you can't bomb a terrorist holding a politician captive with a B-1, with scenarios like that very possible if and when the coalition leaves Iraq in charge with the Iraqi military I would hope they are acquiring the right equipment and focusing on the right areas and making damn sure that weaponry is not getting in the wrong hands.