Swiss combat pilots

[Pedro Monteiro]

Once I read that the Swiss Air Force had some pilots from the militia system, which mean that they only flew and were assigned to an operational unit for a few months a year (or during a certain ammount of time). Can anyone answer me to this question: all the air force's pilots are under this system? how many are professionals? how can the air force solve the problem of the big spending in thei formation of a militia's pilot? does make sense to gave a fighter formation to a pilot who just flies a few months a year?

Once again, sorry for my english. If you don't understand any of my questions, I can try to reformulate them.

All the best,
Pedro Monteiro

[kato]

Ok, if i get the Swiss Luftwaffe website (in German) right, it's like this:

All regular pilots are professional soldiers with 8-year contracts. As part of their training, all pilots get a commercial CPL/IR pilot license. After conclusion of contract, Luftwaffe pilots can go on to work for commercial airlines, and can also be reserved as a militia pilot, depending on individual situation.

My guess would be that only those are selected for militia service who for example fly commercial aircraft regularly, and are earmarked for flying similar aircraft (transports and helicopters in particular) in reserve service. Four weeks per year (the regular militia service) would probably be enough for transition familiarisation in helicopters at least. Could also be an option for e.g. police helo pilots.

[johngage]

I was reading the Wikipedia entry for the Swiss Air Force and it mentioned that they had shot down both Luftwaffe and Allied aircraft during the WWII. Now, Wikipedia is notorious for its unreliability, is there any truth to this statement?

[Waylander]

Jup, there were several interecption missions in the war and they shot down aircrafts of both sides.

[kato]

I was reading the Wikipedia entry for the Swiss Air Force and it mentioned that they had shot down both Luftwaffe and Allied aircraft during the WWII. Now, Wikipedia is notorious for its unreliability, is there any truth to this statement?

The Swiss Airforce states it like following (roughly translated from German). The Swiss Airforce entry on German wikipedia pretty much copies this.

"Only after German mobilization in the West after the 10th of May 1940 border violations by German aircraft increased. The aggressive spirit of the Swiss crews, which especially during the beginning of June fulfilled their defense task, became a symbol of the will to resist. The airforce shot down multiple aircraft of Göring's Luftwaffe. During the same time, they also suffered three KIA however. On June 20th (until the end of October 1943 [, when Germany occupied Italy]), General Guisan outlawed all air combat over Swiss territory for political reasons. There was another deadly shooting of a Swiss aircraft in September 1944, this time by US aircraft. The protection of neutrality during this time [June 1940 to October 1943] was transferred to the air defence forces. [...] The Swiss Military, during WW2, counted 6501 border violations by aircraft, 198 foreign aircraft landed [were forced down] on Swiss territory, 56 were shot down."

Original source in German, with pictures (http://www.lw.admin.ch/internet/luftwaffe/de/home/about/history/krieg.html)

Regarding interaction with Allied aircraft, it seems that Swiss aircraft had orders to force down any bombers etc that violated Swiss borders. The above link contains e.g. a picture of a B-24 Liberator being escorted to land on a Swiss airfield. There were also some accidental bombardments of Swiss cities (e.g. Schaffhausen) along the Swiss-German border by Allied aircraft.
During the early time (1940), Swiss airdefence occasionally "exploited" opportunities, and e.g. shot down German aircraft that were earlier damaged in dogfights with French forces.

[contedicavour]

It's strange to see the Swiss air force operated a lot of Messerschmitt fighters... back then without IFF there must have been a few difficult dogfights between identical planes bearing German and Swiss insignias...

cheers

[Waylander]

Especially because both are crosses.

Maybe they painted their planes like the patrol de suisse... :D

[johngage]

The Swiss Airforce states it like following (roughly translated from German). The Swiss Airforce entry on German wikipedia pretty much copies this.

"Only after German mobilization in the West after the 10th of May 1940 border violations by German aircraft increased. The aggressive spirit of the Swiss crews, which especially during the beginning of June fulfilled their defense task, became a symbol of the will to resist. The airforce shot down multiple aircraft of Göring's Luftwaffe. During the same time, they also suffered three KIA however. On June 20th (until the end of October 1943 [, when Germany occupied Italy]), General Guisan outlawed all air combat over Swiss territory for political reasons. There was another deadly shooting of a Swiss aircraft in September 1944, this time by US aircraft. The protection of neutrality during this time [June 1940 to October 1943] was transferred to the air defence forces. [...] The Swiss Military, during WW2, counted 6501 border violations by aircraft, 198 foreign aircraft landed [were forced down] on Swiss territory, 56 were shot down."

Original source in German, with pictures (http://www.lw.admin.ch/internet/luftwaffe/de/home/about/history/krieg.html)

Regarding interaction with Allied aircraft, it seems that Swiss aircraft had orders to force down any bombers etc that violated Swiss borders. The above link contains e.g. a picture of a B-24 Liberator being escorted to land on a Swiss airfield. There were also some accidental bombardments of Swiss cities (e.g. Schaffhausen) along the Swiss-German border by Allied aircraft.
During the early time (1940), Swiss airdefence occasionally "exploited" opportunities, and e.g. shot down German aircraft that were earlier damaged in dogfights with French forces.

I am an M.Phil History student and am just about to finish my PhD and I had absolutely no idea of these incidents. I always assumed that the Swiss were not involved at all in any fighting. Feel extremely ignorant and stupid :confused:

Thank you Kato and Waylander. If there is any links that you can recommend on these incidents, please let me know.

[kato]

I always assumed that the Swiss were not involved at all in any fighting.

The Germans often used Switzerland for shortcuts, especially during the Battle of France. The Swiss Airforce, during that time, engaged the German aircraft (and shot down several), which led to several pointed notes from the Germans. The Swiss Commanding General decided to pretty much ground the airforce after France fell, complying with German demands. Air defence batteries, however, were not ordered to stand down, and continued shooting at anything crossing the border. Aircraft operations were taken back up after Italy "defected" and was occupied by Germany, with the Swiss citing increased security demands due to the closeness of the fighting.
The Allies primarily used Switzerland as a "safe haven" for damaged bombers or similar to land. The Swiss escorted any such aircraft in and had them land or, if they didn't comply with orders, shot them down.

Just noticed that the link i quoted is also available in english (http://www.lw.admin.ch/internet/luftwaffe/en/home/about/history/krieg.html), like most of the Swiss Airforce site. Interestingly, btw, the english version of the same article does not separate forced-down aircraft from shot down ones, and doesn't have the same added-up number (244 combined instead of 254=198 landed + 56 shot-down). As a bonus, it gives the number of interned foreign aircrews though, at 1,620.

[johngage]

The Germans often used Switzerland for shortcuts, especially during the Battle of France. The Swiss Airforce, during that time, engaged the German aircraft (and shot down several), which led to several pointed notes from the Germans. The Swiss Commanding General decided to pretty much ground the airforce after France fell, complying with German demands. Air defence batteries, however, were not ordered to stand down, and continued shooting at anything crossing the border. Aircraft operations were taken back up after Italy "defected" and was occupied by Germany, with the Swiss citing increased security demands due to the closeness of the fighting.
The Allies primarily used Switzerland as a "safe haven" for damaged bombers or similar to land. The Swiss escorted any such aircraft in and had them land or, if they didn't comply with orders, shot them down.

Just noticed that the link i quoted is also available in english (http://www.lw.admin.ch/internet/luftwaffe/en/home/about/history/krieg.html), like most of the Swiss Airforce site. Interestingly, btw, the english version of the same article does not separate forced-down aircraft from shot down ones, and doesn't have the same added-up number (244 combined instead of 254=198 landed + 56 shot-down). As a bonus, it gives the number of interned foreign aircrews though, at 1,620.

Many thanks Kato ! Really fascinating post on a subject which has not really been discussed. Btw, do you have any info on whether these were the first kills of the Swiss air force? Were they in any way involved in the WWI?

[kato]

Were they in any way involved in the WWI?

Nope, zero involvement really. The air defence forces (relatively unorganized, in the army at the time) apparently did engage German, Swiss and British aircraft from 1915 on, but didn't shoot down any during the war.

However, WW1 was the "starting point" for the Swiss Airforce: On July 31st 1914, it was decided to form an aviation unit. Their official first 3 aircraft were commandeered from a flight show in Berne, a few more - along with mechanics for them - were brought in by civilian pilots. During the war, the Swiss Airforce pretty much only trained their few new pilots, seeing about zero combat action.

This all after, initially, the Swiss Military regarded aircraft as relatively useless - there had been initial trials with a rented Dufaux-5 airplane in 1911 for recon missions (and aerial recon trials in 1910), which convinced the military of the relative low worth: Performing multiple flights during a 3-day maneuver period, the crew managed to get lost on one flight, and twice had to do an emergency landing, destroying the aircraft during the second time (the first time it turned onto its nose).

The army already operated captive balloons though since 1900, primarily for artillery spotting and static reconnaissance. These balloon troops were rather bolstered during WW1 still, and, in 1928, also received a few airships. The balloon troops along with their balloons and airships were decommissioned in 1937, after the Airforce had been formed as its own service in 1936.


Trivia thing:
The only aircraft ever confirmed shot down by Swiss "light" air defence (20mm Oerlikons) was a P-47 Thunderbolt over Chiasso, in February 1945. All other "kills" were made by the "heavy" air defence (75mm guns) and aircraft. The "light" air defence was however also the first to shoot during WW2 on the Swiss side: In April 1940, they engaged a German aircraft near the main Swiss Airbase (not hitting it).

[contedicavour]

Once I read that the Swiss Air Force had some pilots from the militia system, which mean that they only flew and were assigned to an operational unit for a few months a year (or during a certain ammount of time). Can anyone answer me to this question: all the air force's pilots are under this system? how many are professionals? how can the air force solve the problem of the big spending in thei formation of a militia's pilot? does make sense to gave a fighter formation to a pilot who just flies a few months a year?



I doubt part time pilots can master a F18 ... At least the top of the line fighters are flown by professionals (all year long).
Besides, the French air force does do exchanges with the Swiss one (these exchanges started when both countries had Mirage IIIs but were kept afterwards). Part time pilots probably wouldn't have the possibility to spending several months flying in another country.
No Swiss members of Defence Talk around ??

cheers

[rister48]

The Swiss Airforce Pliots have more flying hours per year than the average western fighterpilot.
" Kuntz, a pilot for the Swiss air force for 11 years, boarded the ship July 9, just before the two-week underway. By July 12, he was flying an F/A-18 Hornet, taking off and landing on a carrier for the first time. Kunz came aboard Truman as part of Strike Fighter Squadron (VFA) 106. His job on this underway is to instruct junior pilots on flying Hornets. "

[contedicavour]

The Swiss Airforce Pliots have more flying hours per year than the average western fighterpilot.
" Kuntz, a pilot for the Swiss air force for 11 years, boarded the ship July 9, just before the two-week underway. By July 12, he was flying an F/A-18 Hornet, taking off and landing on a carrier for the first time. Kunz came aboard Truman as part of Strike Fighter Squadron (VFA) 106. His job on this underway is to instruct junior pilots on flying Hornets. "

Wow I doubt Swiss public opinion is aware of this :rolleyes: bye bye neutrality :D
Suppose the Truman ends up fighting for real in the Gulf or elsewhere and a Swiss-piloted F18E/F has to shoot (even in self-defence).
Anyway, congrats to the Swiss air force !!

cheers

[rister48]

The winner of the Royal International Air Tattoo’s Flying competition were as follows:
Paul Bowen Solo Jet Trophy:
Capt Thomas ‘Pipo’ Peier flying the F-18C of Fliegerstaffel 18, Swiss Air Force.

Background - An unprecedented event recently took place in Switzerland when Luftwaffe MiG-29s, from Laage AB in Germany, deployed to Dübendorf AB near Zurich, for two weeks of air combat training with F/A-18s of the Schweizer Luftwaffe during operation - "Fulcrum Campaign 2002" - or FULCA 2002.

The deployment was unique in many ways; being politically significant due to Switzerland's strict policy of neutrality, and militarily because it was the first occasion in which a foreign air arm was able to conduct Dissimilar Air Combat Training (DACT) over Swiss territory on such a large scale.

As part of a five year Swiss Air Force F/A-18 training programme, the "Campaign" took place between 17 April and 3 May with MiG 29 crews from Jagdstaffel 1 / Jagdgeschwader 73 being hosted by Dübendorf's resident Fliegerstaffel 11.

Like many other Swiss Air Force missions involving NATO countries, such as Operation's NOMAD and NIGHTWAY, the legal basis for FULCA 2002 was provided through a special agreement passed by the Swiss Federal Council. The operation was also conducted in accordance with a Memorandum of Understanding, (MoU), signed by both the Swiss and German Air Forces to promote mutual training.

The mission - The primary aim of FULCA 2002 was to provide a mutual air defence training operation for both Air Forces and to broaden the experience of their respective pilots by operating aircraft of two very different types over the unique Alpine environment. For the Swiss F/A-18 crews in particular it provided the first opportunity to gain experience of flying against an ex-'Eastern Bloc' aircraft and to see how the Hornet and the Swiss FLORIDA radar systems would perform against this very potent "Dogfighter". The MiG-29 'Fulcrum', equipped with the superb AA-11 'Archer' missile, coupled to the passive IR detection and helmet mounted fire control system, makes the aircraft a particularly difficult close-in adversary, and this was exploited to the full during training. Conversely the Beyond Visual Range (BVR) and Advanced Medium Range Air to Air Missile (AMRAAM) system of the F/A-18s, combined with the unique tactical operations in the Alps, also provided the MiG crews with strong training benefits as well.

FULCA 2002 is go! - Following an invitation to train in Switzerland, and initial planning, the first German MiG-29 arrived at Dübendorf on 13 February this year when MiG-29GT s/n 29+22 visited Dübendorf as part of a "pre-campaign" visit to arrange details for the main operation. This duly commenced a couple of months later when, on Wednesday 17 April, four MiG-29s (29+03, 29+15, 29+17 and 29+23) were escorted into Swiss airspace by F/A-18s of FlSt.11 and landed at Dübendorf to begin two weeks of intensive operations. Supporting their arrival were two C-160 "Transall" aircraft, (one on the 17th and the other on the 18th), which brought in necessary personnel and ground equipment, although some of this also arrived by road from Laage.

After their arrival aircrews spent the next day in safety and procedural briefings for familiarisation with operations in Switzerland's unique terrain and airspace. This theme was continued on 19 March when flying operations began with familiarisation flights around Switzerland, including practise approaches to some of the unique Alpine airfields like Meiringen and Sion.

After a weekend break combat training then began in earnest on Monday 22 April with a variety of Hornet v MiG missions taking place from Dübendorf daily. These were primarily 1 v 1 and 2 v 1 packages, with sortie tasking generally between three and four missions per day. However, due to strong environmental considerations, particularly in respect to the effect on the local population, other regular Tiger and Mirage flights were reduced during the course of the campaign so that the normal level of flight activity at Dübendorf effectively remained the same (after-burner departures are also banned at Dübendorf as a normal requirement).

Although initially reported to be a four "core" aircraft operation, i.e. 4 MiG-29s and 4 F/A-18s, by the end of the first week up to eight MiGs could be found on the airfield at anyone time, plus other GAF aircraft such as Heer CH-53s.

The start of the second week saw a shift in training away from Basic Fighter Manoeuvring operations, (BFR), to Beyond Visual Range, (BVR), training - but the tempo of missions remained the same. During this phase larger 4 v 4 sorties were undertaken, plus packages involving F/A-18 and F-5 v MiG combinations. The week also included a chance to do some sight-seeing before the MiGs finally left for home on 3 May.

An intensive interest - Throughout the operation the Swiss people, the Swiss Press and of course the Swiss aviation enthusiasts, all took an immense interest in this operation. The Press covered the event in depth both in the Newspapers and on TV, whilst the usual vantage points around the airfield at times became swamped by people watching and taking photographs. Naturally this also led to an increase in security and some of the roads had to be blocked off as there was nowhere to park.


On two occasions during the deployment however the public got a close look at their visitors as a single MiG made a flypast at the "Tag der offenen Ture" day at Payerne AB on 26 April and a single MiG and F/A-18 were displayed on the static at the Airshow held for the new museum opening at Dübendorf on the 27th (see right).

Conclusion and the future - The deployment was a highly successful training operation for both parties and a significant political and military event for the Swiss Air Force in particular. Moreover the mission achieved its primary aim of promoting mutual gain in both training and friendship and to this end it is hoped that a reciprocal visit to Laage AB may be possible next year. For the MiG-29 the future is not so bright as it is likely that this will be phased out of service by 2004, the airframes having been sold to the Polish Air Force for the grand sum of one Euro! On the positive side the aircrews of 1./JG 73 will, however, have the honour of being the first front-line Luftwaffe unit to convert to the Eurofighter Typhoon, thus continuing its famous and proud tradition as a premier fighter unit

[contedicavour]

Well training with neighboring countries' air forces is a bit more normal than sending pilots aboard USN F18E/Fs ;)

I know French pilots fly with the Swiss Air Force in the context of exchanges. The same must be true with the Germans, Austrians, Italians I imagine.

Btw what about new acquisitions by the Swiss Air Force ? with all the F5s and Mirage IIIs being retired it's about time to start new acquisitions to complement the 40 or so F18C/Ds. F18E/Fs, Typhoons, Rafales ???

cheers

[rister48]

JAS39«Gripen», Raffale, F/A18E/F, Eurofighter (Typhoon) are in the race for the F-5 substitute.

[contedicavour]

JAS39«Gripen», Raffale, F/A18E/F, Eurofighter (Typhoon) are in the race for the F-5 substitute.

Are there any official dates/deadlines ? For how many planes ? The plane must be more of a pure fighter or fighterbomber ?
Switzerland is surrounded by 3 Typhoon countries (true, to the west there's France and its Rafales...) so for joint training it might make more sense to take Typhoon. For commonality with existing jets, F18E/F might make more sense...

cheers

[kato]

Total requirement is for at least 33 new fighters (total fighter requirement is 66, Switzerland has 33 F/A-18C/D). The number 66 is calculated based on full-duty 24-hour CAP over Switzerland, apparently.
Afaik, requirement is for a multirole aircraft with fighter/interceptor primary role and recon capacity (to complement the drones again that had to take the entire role after the Mirage IIIRS was decommed).
The whole thing has already gone on since 2004; Swiss officials have by now visited the four proposing companies.

Temporarily, Switzerland will not extend a lease contract to Austria, which currently operates 12 Swiss F-5; the lease expires in 2008. Switzerland plans to have these aircraft back in service.

There's a Swiss military blog (http://www.offiziere.ch/?cat=5) (in German) that discusses the planned procurement in-depth, and also evaluates the four models with regard to Swiss requirements, especially towards interoperability with other forces.

Eurofighter is considered the Swiss Airforce's favourite afaik.

[contedicavour]

Total requirement is for at least 33 new fighters (total fighter requirement is 66, Switzerland has 33 F/A-18C/D). The number 66 is calculated based on full-duty 24-hour CAP over Switzerland, apparently.
Afaik, requirement is for a multirole aircraft with fighter/interceptor primary role and recon capacity (to complement the drones again that had to take the entire role after the Mirage IIIRS was decommed).
The whole thing has already gone on since 2004; Swiss officials have by now visited the four proposing companies.

Temporarily, Switzerland will not extend a lease contract to Austria, which currently operates 12 Swiss F-5; the lease expires in 2008. Switzerland plans to have these aircraft back in service.

There's a Swiss military blog (http://www.offiziere.ch/?cat=5) (in German) that discusses the planned procurement in-depth, and also evaluates the four models with regard to Swiss requirements, especially towards interoperability with other forces.

Eurofighter is considered the Swiss Airforce's favourite afaik.

Thanks, very interesting ! Even if my German is basic-level I understood most of it. I'd definitively expect the "final" to be between Typhoon and F18E/F. When neutrality mattered Gripen could have played the "Sweden is neutral just like Switzerland" card, but nowadays Gripen is sold by the same BAE that pushes Typhoon so I guess the smaller Swedish jet doesn't stand a chance.
Operating Rafale (mostly fighterbomber nowadays given French air force requirements for the first batches) would mean introducing French AAMs next to the US material already procured for F5 and F18C/D.

cheers

[rister48]

I think in the end price will be an issue...and i'm not quite sure we are willing to pay for the Typhoon or F/A18E/F(my bet would be on Raffale or JAS39Gripen)

[rattmuff]

It's "official"... "Fact sheet page" (at the bottom) (http://www.gripen.com/en/MediaRelations/Publications/FactSheet/Archive/FactSheetArchive.htm)

Another possibility is a gov-to-gov deal. My assumption is made because of this article (http://www.f7.mil.se/index.php?lang=S&c=news&id=37664)(no english version available). It's about Lt Gen Walter Knutti (Cdr SAF) visiting SwAF 7th fighter wing to take a closer look at the SAAB JAS 39 Gripen. Of course he also got some time in the air in the backseat of a 39D. ((Are there more articles of this nature out on the net?))

The Swedish Air Force has around 70 A/B Gripens which will be scrapped if no one wants them. :(

[swerve]

... but nowadays Gripen is sold by the same BAE that pushes Typhoon ...

cheers

Not since January 2005. I suspect that Saab felt BAe was using its involvement in Gripen International to favour Typhoon when both were in contention. Officially it was because Saab had gained enough marketing experience, & no longer needed the tie-up.

[kato]

It's about Lt Gen Walter Knutti (Cdr SAF) visiting SwAF 7th fighter wing to take a closer look at the SAAB JAS 39 Gripen.

The Swiss military has done similar visits to the other three offering companies in the last 2-3 years, including close examinations and such (I think they visited Dassault first). Sweden just wasn't "available" at that time or something like that.

[Izzy1]

Not since January 2005. I suspect that Saab felt BAe was using its involvement in Gripen International to favour Typhoon when both were in contention. Officially it was because Saab had gained enough marketing experience, & no longer needed the tie-up.

Must admit Swerve, I'm almost certain BAE are still involved in the Grippen International joint venture, our literature and the Grippen website seem to indicate so. Lets not forget also, BAE own a 20% share in Saab AB Group as a whole.

Anyway, I'm straying off topic. Sorry.

[contedicavour]

Well if Sweden sells second hand Gripens for a pittance vs new acquisition costs, then I guess it would be hard to refuse. Especially as the Gripens are the most closely comparable to the F5E/Fs being replaced (in terms of size and role I mean).
I guess Sweden is smart enough however to want a minimum order for new aircrafts before selling on the cheap the unneeded ones in their air force.
By the way, minus the 70 Gripens mentioend, how many remain in Swedish service ?

cheers

[Ryttare]

I think in the end price will be an issue...and i'm not quite sure we are willing to pay for the Typhoon or F/A18E/F(my bet would be on Raffale or JAS39Gripen)

How about the operational budget? The F-5 is known for its low operational costs. Typhoons and Super Hornets would probably require the yearly budget to increase substantially or the numbers cut drastically. Even Rafale would be quite more costly to operate.

[contedicavour]

How about the operational budget? The F-5 is known for its low operational costs. Typhoons and Super Hornets would probably require the yearly budget to increase substantially or the numbers cut drastically. Even Rafale would be quite more costly to operate.

True, but keeping up maintenance for a jet that's not being in production for 25 years now will gradually become more and more difficult and expensive. Also, it depends on what performance you're looking for. The F5 has no BVR capability and is slow vs the other planes mentioned. Still good for some advanced training though I must admit.

cheers

[swerve]

Must admit Swerve, I'm almost certain BAE are still involved in the Grippen International joint venture, our literature and the Grippen website seem to indicate so. Lets not forget also, BAE own a 20% share in Saab AB Group as a whole.

Anyway, I'm straying off topic. Sorry.

I put it poorly, & I thought the pullback was bigger than it was. My mistake.

It looks as if BAe pulled out of direct participation in marketing, leaving it all to be done by Gripen International, & led by Saab. BAe puts it as "SAAB takes increased marketing responsibility for Gripen Fighter Aircraft", & linked it with the reduction of BAes Saab shareholding, from 35% to 20.5%.

And you're right, we're pulling this off-topic. Enough?

[rattmuff]

By the way, minus the 70 Gripens mentioend, how many remain in Swedish service ?

cheers

:offtopic :D
SwAF ordered 204. Six of those don't exist, crashes and so on. 28 is temporarily in the hands of Hungarian and Czech AF. So SwAF, FMV and FOI should have 170 Gripens in all versions. Ca 70 of those is the latest (hardware-)version, that is C/D. 30 A/B will be upgraded to C/D.
I haven't found anything about what will happen to the 70 "old" Gripen jets.
In a few years SwAF should have 100 of the latest Gripen fighter jets and probably alot of spare parts.

[rister48]

The F5 has no BVR capability and is slow vs the other planes mentioned.
I quite agree...as Switzerland has no agressor role, flying in and between the mountains with the agilty, the F-5/E could pose quite a threat to other 4 th generation fighters, as allready proven in Switzerland. Check out: airshowaction.com/axalp06

[swerve]

:offtopic :D
SwAF ordered 204. Six of those don't exist, crashes and so on. 28 is temporarily in the hands of Hungarian and Czech AF. So SwAF, FMV and FOI should have 170 Gripens in all versions. Ca 70 of those is the latest (hardware-)version, that is C/D. 30 A/B will be upgraded to C/D.
I haven't found anything about what will happen to the 70 "old" Gripen jets.
In a few years SwAF should have 100 of the latest Gripen fighter jets and probably alot of spare parts.

I thought the Czech Gripens were new-built for the Czech Republic?

DiD lists production & orders as -
Prototypes 6 (5 single-seat, 1 2-seat)
JAS-39A 105 (Sweden)
JAS-39B 14 (Sweden)
JAS-39C 70 (Sweden)
12 (Czech Republic)
19 (S. Africa)
JAS-39D 14 (Sweden)
2 (Czech Republic)
9 (S. Africa)

Total 251 built or on order: 203 for Sweden (-14 sold on), 6 prototypes, 42 for export.

Hungary - 12 JAS-39C & 2 D rebuilt from Swedish As & Bs.

A few are kept busy by the Empire Test Pilots School & testing of Meteor.

[rattmuff]

I was only describing the swedish Gripens.

The leased Gripens are upgraded A/B-versions.
If I got it right those leased Gripens will be replaced by new ones. The leased Gripens can be bought, if not - the fighters will be returned to SwAF.
http://www.fmv.se/WmTemplates/Page.aspx?id=1413
ETPS has one 39B.


[[[Move posts to new threads? Mods?]]]

[swerve]

I was only describing the swedish Gripens.

The leased Gripens are upgraded A/B-versions.
If I got it right those leased Gripens will be replaced by new ones. The leased Gripens can be bought, if not - the fighters will be returned to SwAF.
http://www.fmv.se/WmTemplates/Page.aspx?id=1413
ETPS has one 39B.

[[[Move posts to new threads? Mods?]]]

You included both Czech & Hungarian Gripens among the Swedish tally, but they were new-build for the Czechs, not ex-SwAF.

Also, the Czech Gripens are leased, like the Hungarian ones. Or so says the FMV.
http://www.gripen.com/NR/rdonlyres/882ED813-5035-4DEF-A9CB-35644DA9E302/0/FMV_Status_Update_Gripen_Cz.pdf

IIRC (but I could be wrong) it's a "lease to buy" contract, under which if they make all the payments, at the end of the lease they keep the aircraft. That's definitely what the Hungarian deal is, & it's for C & D standard aircraft. The original Hungarian lease arrangement was changed. Again, from the FMV via Gripen.com -
http://www.gripen.com/NR/rdonlyres/3AC7AE9D-2BB6-4198-9AAD-FFD6915F271B/0/Hungary_FMV_Update.pdf
Page 2, paragraph 3 - "The lease is for a ten year period, ... following which the aircraft become the property of the Hungarian government.

http://www.fmv.se/WmTemplates/page.aspx?id=1189

I agree, this might deserve a new thread. Start a suitable one, & perhaps someone will move the posts. I will later, or tomorrow, if nobody else does. But got to do something else now.