Portuguese frigates for Urugay

[Pedro Monteiro]

On my blog you can find some information about the portuguese frigates that Urugay is stuying.
In the same page, you hava a brief report about the acquisition itself.

All the best,
Pedro Monteiro

[Rich]

On my blog you can find some information about the portuguese frigates that Urugay is stuying.
In the same page, you hava a brief report about the acquisition itself.

All the best,
Pedro Monteiro

Wheres the link to your blog?

[Pedro Monteiro]

Actually, according the rules of the forum I can't post any links until I reach 15 posts. I thought that I had the link visible on my profile. In any case it's pedromonteiro-photography (in the blogspot network).

If you have any problem in acess it, please let me know.

All the best,
Pedro Monteiro

[contedicavour]

Congratulations, your home page is extremely interesting !
It makes sense that Uruguay takes your 2 remaining FFs since they are almost identical to the ex French Navy FFs Uruguay took over in the early '90s.
A question for you : are there any plans to update the 2 Doorman or the 3 Meko's SAMs to ESSM ?

cheers

[Pedro Monteiro]

Currently, nothing offical has been released. In the portuguese foruns is frequent that question. Actually, by what's know, we can only speculate. However, three things are clear:
a) compared with the original AIM-7, the improved ESSM can give has more effectiveness in the interception of missiles and, because of that, in air defence missions.
b) Portugal always searched for two air defence frigates; the Karel Doorman are, in fact, multi-role vessels; adding to this fact the construction of a LPD ship, it's clear that Portugal must adquire some capabilities on this area.
d) the Mk29 launcher of the Vasco da Gama class and the Mk48 from the Karel Doorman class, as well as the radar systems, can fire and guide the ESSM.

But, as you know, the use of the ESSM with the current ships' sensors is limited. So, I would advance with this hypothesis: the introduction of the ESSM will only happen after the modernization of the Vasco da Gama class and probably will envolve the substitution of the radar system. In any case, the Vasco da Gama class is, presently, well fitted for ASW missions, so it's questionable if the portuguese Navy would transform it on a dedicated AAW ship.

I hope that I've been clear - sorry for my english :( .

All the best,
Pedro Monteiro

[Sea Toby]

Has Portugal ordered a new multi-role sealift/small oiler shiip ye? I read recently that they were interested in buying such a ship.

[Pedro Monteiro]

Yes we are. But currently there's nothing planned. The Lei de Programação Militar, which plans the acquisition of new equipements, was reviewed last year and didn't inclue such program.
Some sources talk about the hypothesis that such ship should be constructed in Viana do Castelo.

All the best,
Pedro Monteiro

[contedicavour]

On Jane's 06/07 I've seen a drawing of the potential design of the LPD for Portugal, it looks like a slightly smaller version of the Spanish/Dutch Rotterdam LPDs.
I wonder if Portugal wouldn't have done better to go the same path as Denmark, ie forget about submarines and improve AAW on its ships. I doubt Portugal can keep a permanent submarine fleet with 2 type 209PN.

cheers

[Pedro Monteiro]

Can you post that draw? Currently, no project has been release. If you knew what the press has said... my sources have said that almost has no support...

About the submarines, I doubt too that we could mantain two submarines in the sea, but we have been goof operational standarts in the remaining submarines of the Daphné type (actually, we only have one leff). A third has an option, but we'll not buy it. Instead, the Navy adquired the two Karel Doorman.

All the best,
Pedro Monteiro

[Spanish]

Pedro, i think at home i got some information about the LPD on a spanish magazine, Fuerzas Armadas del Mundo. If i found it, i mail you. Please, enter on my blog and send me an email so i can get your mail address.

eltiradorsolitario.blogspot.com

Saludos

[Pedro Monteiro]

Well, I have that magazine. Actually, I'm their correspondent for Portugal. The article is not mine. In fact, the source is old and, in that time, nothing had been release. The project stills going and probably it will not look like the picture in the magazine. I have read several versions, including the Enforcer 10000 project and a pure LHD!...

All the best,
Pedro Monteiro

[contedicavour]

Jane's 06/07 reports on page 601 a very simple drawing which is virtually identical to the Spanish-Dutch Rotterdam LPD (to be accurate, Schelde Enforcer 1300 design).
It's given at 10,500 t full load, 162 metres long, 4 diesels, 19kn, military lift 650 troops, 4 LCMs, 40 APCs. It also says landing spots for 4 EH101 and potentially 2 RAMs for self defence.
What's strange though is that the plan was for laying down end of 2006 in Viana do Castelo Shipyard... so I imagine the information is old ...

cheers

[Pedro Monteiro]

Yes, it's old. But is like what was reported by the Navy a few years ago, on its official magazine. I believed that, in the end, the vessel will be like that descripition.

All the best,
Pedro Monteiro

[harryriedl]

Portugal and Uruguay MoDs signed yesterday afternoon several Defense Agreements, the most visible one is the Transfer of the 2 "João Belo" Frigates still active within the Portuguese Navy to the Uruguaian Navy.

Some small details are still being negociated but both frigates will be transferred to Uruguay between end 2007, begginning 2008.

Yesterday the ships received the visit of the President of Uruguay, at the Naval Base in Lisbon, Portugal.

thats all the detail ive found but the two ships are to be transfered

[contedicavour]

Portugal and Uruguay MoDs signed yesterday afternoon several Defense Agreements, the most visible one is the Transfer of the 2 "João Belo" Frigates still active within the Portuguese Navy to the Uruguaian Navy.

Some small details are still being negociated but both frigates will be transferred to Uruguay between end 2007, begginning 2008.

Yesterday the ships received the visit of the President of Uruguay, at the Naval Base in Lisbon, Portugal.

thats all the detail ive found but the two ships are to be transfered

Makes sense since the original French frigates of the same class already operate in Uruguay. The question though is whether they will be FFGs or simple FFs. IIRC the French ships stopped carrying MM38 Exocets upon transfer to Montevideo. They are also old (late '60s) and require a lot of personnel for their size and armament (gun only since ASW was taken out).

cheers

[kato]

They are also old (late '60s)

The four Comandante Riviere? Early 60s even. The three ships transferred were commissioned in the MN in 1962 and 1963.
The two ships Uruguay is buying aren't much newer - 1967 and 1969.

They are also old (late '60s) and require a lot of personnel for their size and armament (gun only since ASW was taken out).

When? I've seen pics of them still carrying the ASW torpedoes in 2003 (yes, for both Uruguayan and Portuguese ships, if this is unclear).

[contedicavour]

The four Comandante Riviere? Early 60s even. The three ships transferred were commissioned in the MN in 1962 and 1963.
The two ships Uruguay is buying aren't much newer - 1967 and 1969.



When? I've seen pics of them still carrying the ASW torpedoes in 2003 (yes, for both Uruguayan and Portuguese ships, if this is unclear).

Yes, the Commandante Rivière Class, exactly.

IIRC I read that in 2004-05 the Portuguese navy stopped using the Joao Belo and the Baptiste de Andrade/Joao Coutinho corvettes for ASW, leaving the role to the Vasco da Gama/Meko who also carry helos.

cheers

[kato]

IIRC I read that in 2004-05 the Portuguese navy stopped using the Joao Belo and the Baptiste de Andrade/Joao Coutinho corvettes for ASW, leaving the role to the Vasco da Gama/Meko who also carry helos.


Ah. Interesting since their ASW capability was just upgraded in the late 90s (with the last ship finishing the refit in 2000).

Part of that upgrade was a new hull sonar, updated torpedo tubes (now carrying Mk46 Mod 5 torpedoes), removal of the ASW mortar and installation of towed torpedo decoy equipment (SLQ-25 Nixie). Plus installation of Link 11 to interface with the Vasco da Gama frigates.

[contedicavour]

Ah. Interesting since their ASW capability was just upgraded in the late 90s (with the last ship finishing the refit in 2000).

Part of that upgrade was a new hull sonar, updated torpedo tubes (now carrying Mk46 Mod 5 torpedoes), removal of the ASW mortar and installation of towed torpedo decoy equipment (SLQ-25 Nixie). Plus installation of Link 11 to interface with the Vasco da Gama frigates.

Hmm yes I remember you're right. Though Uruguay isn't interested in ASW AFAIK so may be the systems are still there but are not being used by Portugal and will most likely a bit rust in place...

cheers