Helicopters: Cost of ownership

[adroth]

We've had a lot of discussions about the next generation helicopter for the Philippine Air Force on Timawa.net; most of which focused on the purchase price of helicopters. However, there was very little discussion about how much it would actually cost to operate the various helicopter types.

To spice up our discussions, I put together the following figures from the indicated sources. The discussion can be found here: http://timawa.net/forum/index.php?topic=7943.0

Can anyone here provide additional information about other choppers that are out there?


Light helicopters

UH-1H: $835 per flight hour [1] (http://www.nationaldefensemagazine.org/issues/2004/Mar/Armys_Old.htm)

Huey II: $535 per flight hour [2] (http://www.nationaldefensemagazine.org/issues/2004/Mar/Armys_Old.htm)

S-76: $1,178 per flight hour (based on 2003 exchange rate of 7.7 $HK / USD) [6] (http://www.budget.gov.hk/2003/eng/head166.pdf)

EC 155 Dauphin: $1,157 per flight hour (based on 2003 exchange rate of 7.7 $HK / USD) [7] (http://www.budget.gov.hk/2003/eng/head166.pdf)

HH-65 Dolphin: $5,173 per flight hour (US Coast Guard version) [7] (http://www.uscg.mil/d13/publicaffairs/news/feature_stories/false_distress_page.htm)



Medium-lift helicopters

UH-60 Blackhawk: $2,199 per flight hour [3] (http://www.nationaldefensemagazine.org/issues/2004/Mar/Armys_Old.htm)

Mi-17: $2,850 per flight hour [4] (http://mst.texterity.com/mst/2006-1/?pg=30) (based on Croatian currency)

AS 332 Super Puma: $1,883 per flight hour (based on 2003 exchange rate of 7.7 $HK / USD) [8] (http://www.budget.gov.hk/2003/eng/head166.pdf)

CH-47D Chinook: $2,403 - $2,723 per flight hour [11] (http://www.d-n-i.net/fcs/comments/c342.htm)


Heavy-lift helicopters

CH-53E Super Stallion: $20,000 per flight hour [5] (http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/2007/05/ch53k-the-us-marines-hlr-helicopter-program-updated/index.php)



Attack helicopters

AH-64 Apache: $3,851 per flight hour [9] (http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/systems/aircraft/rotary.htm)

AH-1S Cobra: $1,569 - $1,757 per flight hour [10] (http://www.d-n-i.net/fcs/comments/c342.htm)

[tiddles]

On some relaxing "Armchair"occasions I have daydreamed of Super Stallions being ideal for heavy lift off the LHDs if and when we get them. Having read your post I think they are too expensive to operate even in "armchair daydreams"

[meh]

I don't know if this directly relates to the topic but what about copters like the Mi-17. Does anyone know it's operating cost?:confused:

[regstrup]

Mi-17: $2,850 per flight hour [4] (http://mst.texterity.com/mst/2006-1/?pg=30) (based on Croatian currency)

Yes, adroth knows ;)

[spectre]

http://www.piasecki.com/w-3a.htm

try this guy out...

[adroth]

http://www.piasecki.com/w-3a.htm

try this guy out...

I don't see any cost-per-flight-hour data on that link.

[spectre]

I don't see any cost-per-flight-hour data on that link.

I wouldn't get any info off the internet...I would call them myself and see what they say.

[adroth]

I wouldn't get any info off the internet...I would call them myself and see what they say.

Information on the net will be sufficient for my purposes. The expense and the hassle of having to explain why I need this information just ain't worth it.

All I need are ballpark figures to help keep discussions on our forum grounded. Far too many kids posting fantasy threads.

[weasel1962]

Deleted

[adroth]

Do those figures include maintenance, fuel, pilot and parking costs? Its not that easy finding a public helicopter parking lot...

References for each value can be viewed by clicking the italicized numbers.

To keep from going insane, I've assumed that there is some "industry standard" definition for what costs are included in "operating cost". Given that, I've refrained from digging up country-specific considerations like labor cost, prevailing fuel cost at time of study, etc.

That could very well be a bogus assumption, of course, since some of these figures come from marketing oriented "brochure" Web sites, and there are just soooo many variables that have to be taken into consideration.

[spectre]

References for each value can be viewed by clicking the italicized numbers.

To keep from going insane, I've assumed that there is some "industry standard" definition for what costs are included in "operating cost". Given that, I've refrained from digging up country-specific considerations like labor cost, prevailing fuel cost at time of study, etc.

That could very well be a bogus assumption, of course, since some of these figures come from marketing oriented "brochure" Web sites, and there are just soooo many variables that have to be taken into consideration.

May we ask what this is for?

[adroth]

May we ask what this is for?

As I mentioned in the first post on this thread, and in my response to you when you suggested that I actually call a helicopter dealer, this exercise is merely meant to gather additional information that we will use to keep discussions on a Philippine Defense forum (http://timawa.net/forum/index.php) grounded.

Too many of our people have been making too many flippant remarks about what helicopters the PAF should acquire -- focusing only on the "sticker" price, without considering their impact on overall operations. By bringing these facts to light, we hope to improve the quality of the discussions on Timawa.net.

I believe that discussions in this direction will benefit any forum where it is hosted, so I felt there was no harm in starting a companion thread for the original discussion (http://timawa.net/forum/index.php?topic=7943.0) here at Defense Talk.

It was my hope that by sharing the information that we've already gathered thus far, we could encourage other folks, who may have done similar studies, to share their own findings. Thereby enriching the body of information.

[adroth]

Anyone here tried using this piece of software?

=== ~~~ ===

http://store.tailwinds.com/aircraft-operating-costs-helicopter.html

Aircraft Operating Costs Helicopter Edition

System Requirements: Multimedia PC running Windows 98/2000/ME or XP, 100 Mhz or faster processor, 1024x748 screen resolution, 32 MB RAM and mouse.

Aircraft Operating Costs : The Interactive Aircraft Budget Analyzer ™, Helicopter Edition, provides operating cost analysis for aircraft owners. Helicopters owners, can get the cost of the aircraft’s real operating expenses and it also allows users to compare different aircraft before purchase. The software uses preloaded aircraft numbers that were derived by extensive research from numerous sources. But, the real power of the program is the ability of the user to custom tailor the numbers to reflect the true figures for their own aircraft giving an accurate picture of the true operating cost.
Each preloaded aircraft includes figures for:


Gallons used per hour
Airframe maintenance expenses
Engine reserve expense
Average crew salaries including benefits
Average hangar expense
Average insurance expense


Miscellaneous expenses which include:


Weather service
Recurrent training
Refurbishing costs
Navigation charts

[adroth]

Managed to add a few more birds to the list since the previous list. The main list can be found here:

http://timawa.net/forum/index.php/topic,7943.0.html

Note, these figures should be taken with a grain of salt since there are many factors that can affect actual costs (e.g., labor cost in the operating country, etc.). However, they give some feel as to how expensive operating these aircraft are.

Light helicopters

UH-1H:
USD: $835 per flight hour [1] (http://www.nationaldefensemagazine.org/issues/2004/Mar/Armys_Old.htm)

Huey II: $535 per flight hour [2] (http://www.nationaldefensemagazine.org/issues/2004/Mar/Armys_Old.htm)

UH-1N / Bell 412: P31,094 per flight hour (1999 prices) [18] (http://timawa.net/forum/index.php?topic=9541.msg86800#msg86800)

S-76
USD: $1,178 per flight hour (based on 2003 exchange rate of 7.7 $HK / USD) [6] (http://www.budget.gov.hk/2003/eng/head166.pdf)

MG520: P21,431 per flight hour (1999 prices) [15] (http://timawa.net/forum/index.php?topic=9541.msg86800#msg86800)

MD-530 (Civilian version): $357 per flight hour (Police version) [14] (http://www.mdhelicopters.com/helicopters/pdf/MD530FTechSpecs/530f_doc.pdf)

EC 155 Dauphin: $1,157 per flight hour (based on 2003 exchange rate of 7.7 $HK / USD) [7] (http://www.budget.gov.hk/2003/eng/head166.pdf)

HH-65 Dolphin: $5,173 per flight hour (US Coast Guard version) [12] (http://www.uscg.mil/d13/publicaffairs/news/feature_stories/false_distress_page.htm)

Zhi-11 Changhe: $370 per flight hour (Police version) [13] (http://www.policeaviationnews.com/Acrobat/PANPDFNovember2005.pdf)

Robinson R-22: $104 per flight hour [19] (http://www.robinsonheli.com/pdf_files/r22_eoc_rev.C_15jan2007.pdf)


Medium-lift helicopters

UH-60 Blackhawk: $2,199 per flight hour [3] (http://www.nationaldefensemagazine.org/issues/2004/Mar/Armys_Old.htm)

S-70A Blackhawk: P38,894 per flight hour (1999 prices) [19] (http://timawa.net/forum/index.php?topic=9541.msg86800#msg86800)

Mi-17: $2,850 per flight hour [4] (http://mst.texterity.com/mst/2006-1/?pg=30) (based on Croatian currency)

AS 332 Super Puma: $1,883 per flight hour (based on 2003 exchange rate of 7.7 $HK / USD) [8] (http://www.budget.gov.hk/2003/eng/head166.pdf)

CH-47D Chinook: $2,403 - $2,723 per flight hour [11] (http://www.d-n-i.net/fcs/comments/c342.htm)


Heavy-lift helicopters

CH-53E Super Stallion: $20,000 per flight hour [5] (http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/2007/05/ch53k-the-us-marines-hlr-helicopter-program-updated/index.php)



Attack helicopters

AH-64 Apache: $3,851 per flight hour [9] (http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/systems/aircraft/rotary.htm)

AH-1S Cobra: $1,569 - $1,757 per flight hour [10] (http://www.d-n-i.net/fcs/comments/c342.htm)