how would the UK defend from ICBMs?

[Jambo_100]

what would happen if the UK was attcked by ballistic missiles? how would we defend ourselves? would we shoot them down with intercepter aircraft? as far as im aware the UK has no anti missile system eg patriot, arrow.

[Tasman]

what would happen if the UK was attcked by ballistic missiles? how would we defend ourselves? would we shoot them down with intercepter aircraft? as far as im aware the UK has no anti missile system eg patriot, arrow.

Good to see that you worked out how to start a new thread Jambo. Welcome to the Forum.

I believe that the UK's defence, at this time, is its deterrent force of SSBNs that are deployed to ensure that such an attack doesn't happen.

Your question raises a worry that a lot of people are starting to have about an attack by a terrorist group who somehow get hold of a ballistic weapon and may be prepared to use it without fear of counter attack. It also raises the issue of defence against ballistic missiles with conventional warheads that might be used by a rogue state. A strike by the SSBNs would be inappropriate in these circumstances and therefore would not have a deterrent affect.

I stand to be corrected but I think that the Aster 30 SAM which will be deployed on the Type 45 destroyers would have some anti ballistic missile capability.

Cheers

[Jambo_100]

yes that is true. a type 45 based in the medetaranian sea could shoot down a ICBM only if it is within 5 minuits of being launched. i guess its because it would go out of range or something.

[Jambo_100]

http://navy-matters.beedall.com/imagesbig/t45-bmd.jpg

take a look at this :)

[Systems Adict]

I appreciate the question & why it was asked, but I don't understand the logic.

I believe that the UK is reasonably safe from such attack at the moment. The technology, never mind the funds or the reasoning required for such an attack to take place mean that IWO threat levels, this is just above Martians shooting us up with their green laser beams!

The logistics of such an action basically mean that the equipment/technology needed (launch facilities, tracking, access to satelites, etc) wouldn't go un-noticed by our neighbours & allies, who would probably try & avert it happening to the best of their abilities.

The other side of such an action is reasoning.

Only a complete maniac, who wanted to destroy the planet would contemplate such a move. ICBM's are usually wholly for the use of Nuclear warheads. If any of the few countries across the globe that have access to them / their technology, found that one was "missing", or had been hijacked & went missing, then no doubt the media worldwide would be alerted, as well as military forces, to track it down.

Finally, why would anyone want to attack the UK......?


Systems Adict

:confused:

[Jambo_100]

the USA is under constant threat from terrorists and rogue states like iran and N.korea. britain possibly being USA's closest ally is under threat. we help the americans in wars we shouldnt get envolved in and therfore the Uk is under threat. what if terrorists we are fighting got hold of a nuclear weapon? what if iran or N.korea fired at us? it is quite possible for Al-Quida to get hold of a nuke, remeber iran are supposedly making them and iran fund terrorism. so do N.korea. the UK should a number of patriot missiles or something similar to defend itself. germany have already done it so it would be wise if we did it aswell. the ground based air defence missile we have is the rapier and its only a short distance missile, 5km range.

though a rapier managed to track a B-2 bomber at an airshow, the british MoD released the video and it caused a massive uproar. but i cant find it on the net.

[Waylander]

How often do B-2s fly over a Rapier at 5km height? ;)
Sorry couldn't resist... :o

As to terrorists using ICBMs to deliver a nuclear weapon? How should they? Using ICBMs is not that easy...

And terrorists who are able to get a WMD are not dumb.
Put it into a container and ship it to New York.
That's it.

And against states the nuclear deterrence provided by your boomers (Not to talk of the whole NATO) should be a good reason for not attacking you.

[Jambo_100]

a scud missile is capable of holding nukes. iran are supposeldy developing nuclear weapons and have scuds and there are many long range ballistic missiles out there being developed. but what if a missile was launched at the UK. what would we do in the 10 minuits before it hit? would there be any way of intercepting it? aircraft with long range missiles? ship based missiles?

the thing about the B-2 - it happened at an airshow.

[Mouse]

People always act out desperately when they are threatened, How about try to intercept the missile with F18E maybe:nonsense ? Chance are little, better than none. It seems UK have similar experiences in the WWII with V2. (just a joke)

Anyway, I am new and innocent, correct me if I am wrong. I do not believe that Iran or any terroist can have a long rang missile can have such a level of tech that can evade the current air defense of most advance countries. For example multiple war head or irregular dodge patterns. As long as they do not lay their hands on the space tech, we are pretty safe.

I believe it's easier to to set a nuke in UK via a container or make dirty bomb in the backyard. That's what we should worried about:shudder

[Jambo_100]

right, i know this probably wont ever happen but just imagine that it does!

ok then, imagine this
--------------------

An balistic missile is launched at the UK, the radar stations in the norht of england (flyingdales i think) detect it. we would usually have 10 - 12 minuits before the missile hits london. so then, what are the government going to do? are they going to try and interecpt it? if so, how are they going to do it? or are they just going to let it kill the intire population of london while they snuggle safely in there bunkers?

---------------------

any one have any ideas what they would do or what would happen?

[Mouse]

:confused:
10~12mins?
I guess when the government knows the situation, perhaps another 2 mins has passed. What can the government do in such a short time anyway except order to fire all the Anti-Missile & Anti-Air weaponry at the missile hope to bring down to nuclear missile without let is blow up above the sky of the Island. There is not even enough time to launch fighters to intercept!

If that happens, I say forget about people:shudder , they are dead anyway. Let's prepare a speech to condemn this terrorist act and declare for war. There are may not be enough escape time for the head of the state:shudder

[ever4244]

some one think know the correct way to protect yourself in such condition can save 9 life out of 10. Perhaps UK should dig out those instruction video during the cold-war and teach her people how to survive under a nuclear attack.
-------as far as I remember , a store of preserved food and water(tin , can etc```) some iodin-pill, respirator, clean clothes ```````
and when the shock wave came , take cover beside the roadbed, river bank ,hill foot in the oppsite direction . escape to the upper wind erea , use rain coat to sheild radiated dust `````etc

[gf0012-aust]

the thing about the B-2 - it happened at an airshow.


I always get a giggle out of reading this event presented as proof.

Apparently everyone forgets that US aircraft of that capability are always "transmission hot" when they are over proscribed air space.

The important counter to that is when the F117's were ferrying over saudi airspace during the gulf war. they radioed in to the ATC and asked for a courtesy permission to land. The AFB which was on full alert (as they were worried about an Iraqi air attack) stated that they couldn't see the aircraft on scan. The lead pilot at that stage was on finals - so visible to the tower but not visible on scope. Refer to Bandits over Bagdhad - written with ex stinkbug pilots contributing.

another example is also during desert storm. stinkbugs were inbound on proscribed corridors so as to keep their mission path clean. F-15's that were in WVR airspace and knew that the corridor existed could not see them.

thirdly, I was involved with the Rapier upgrade programme in aust, I can tell you that the rapier system (even with upgrades) would crap itself trying to find an emissions shutdown B2 or F-117.

Its a nice little story, but it ignores so much fact that its not funny.

[Jambo_100]

I always get a giggle out of reading this event presented as proof.

Apparently everyone forgets that US aircraft of that capability are always "transmission hot" when they are over proscribed air space.

The important counter to that is when the F117's were ferrying over saudi airspace during the gulf war. they radioed in to the ATC and asked for a courtesy permission to land. The AFB which was on full alert (as they were worried about an Iraqi air attack) stated that they couldn't see the aircraft on scan. The lead pilot at that stage was on finals - so visible to the tower but not visible on scope. Refer to Bandits over Bagdhad - written with ex stinkbug pilots contributing.

another example is also during desert storm. stinkbugs were inbound on proscribed corridors so as to keep their mission path clean. F-15's that were in WVR airspace and knew that the corridor existed could not see them.

thirdly, I was involved with the Rapier upgrade programme in aust, I can tell you that the rapier system (even with upgrades) would crap itself trying to find an emissions shutdown B2 or F-117.

Its a nice little story, but it ignores so much fact that its not funny.

if you dont beleive me go and look it up yourself! the MoD released the video but its annoying because its been classified again. this is because it caused an uproar. go and look it up yourself my friend. you probably dont know anything about it because you live in another country.

[gf0012-aust]

if you dont beleive me go and look it up yourself! the MoD released the video but its annoying because its been classified again. this is because it caused an uproar. go and look it up yourself my friend. you probably dont know anything about it because you live in another country.

I'm well aware of the story. and its not classified at all - thats a load of bollocks.

I'm also patently aware of the fact that you've either made no attempt to read my post, or don't understand any of what I've written.

My living in another country has got nothing to do with anything - and I've probably travelled and worked in more countries than you've had hot breakfasts - which is an interesting data set but means stuff all.

Make the effort to read my post properly - and appreciate the fact that some of us in here might actually have a little clue as to what goes on in the real world as far as some of this stuff is concerned.

[Jambo_100]

yes i did read your post. please dont get angry, im very sorry if i have annoyed you. :(

[gf0012-aust]

yes i did read your post. please dont get angry, im very sorry if i have annoyed you. :(

I'm not angry - I just get a tad frustrated when throw away comments are made.

Apart from my prev comments there are other realities here.


Military aircraft over civil controled airspace are "hot" - ie they emit "normally". hence thats why the rapier tracked the aircraft - it was lit up like a normal emitting aircraft and could be easily tracked
The USAF is not going to bring its primary LO platform into open sky and open area flying space and have it "emission negative". Its dumb, it achieves nothing and its an opportunity for any other interrogating system to pick up aircraft characteristics when emission managed - something they won't do.
I tried to give you examples of how difficult it was for a fully war alert battlespace to pick up a first generation stealth platform. The B2 is an order of magnitude better than an F-117. The Saudi sensor system at their AFB in Southern Saudi Arabia was an order of magnitude more powerful than anything that a rapier unit could hope to achieve.
Stealth aircraft on combat missions are given restricted corridors to fly in - thats so other aircraft don't smack into them by accident because they can't sense them - again I gave the example of DS where aircraft (F-15's and Prowlers) were unable to see electronically the stinkbug and yet were in WVR (and even more so as they were in a parallel corridor). As soon as they hit controlled or saturated air space they light up like normal. eg, once the F117 raises its antenna it lights up on a scope - its profile is so finely tuned that raising the antenna/aerial to start comms means that it then becomes visible. In the case of the F117, once they hit the primary corridor, they are shutdown completely at a comms level. An F117 is nowhere near the LO capability of a B2, and is actually "louder" (signature wise) than an F-22.The Rapier saw the B2 because it was lit up like a whorehouse in amsterdam.

Its certainly not classified - its regarded as a standing joke as its often trotted out as an example by some enthusiasts of the fallibility of stealth.

I'm trying to help you not make the same mistake - thats assuming you're in here to learn something new every now and then (like all of us)

[Jambo_100]

Ok. can you tell me how to get that thing to appear after each message i write. i think its called a signature or something, you have one.

[eckherl]

I think Waylander hit right when he mentioned UK`s Boomers, also if any country was to try that stunt then they would feel the whole wrath of NATO including some additional tricks that the U.S would do in addition to our NATO obligations.

The suite case bomb is what scares me, how many did Russia lose or cannot account for or this only a bad rumor that was started up a few years ago.

[KGB]

The suite case bomb is what scares me, how many did Russia lose or cannot account for or this only a bad rumor that was started up a few years ago.

During the Kennedy administration, there was an atom bomb in the Soviet Embassy, probably brought in in pieces through diplomatic pouches. Kennedy knew it was there, but everyone kept quiet about it. The bomb was eventually removed, I think.

I got this from Time magazine, a couple of years ago.

[kinggodzilla87]

During the Kennedy administration, there was an atom bomb in the Soviet Embassy, probably brought in in pieces through diplomatic pouches. Kennedy knew it was there, but everyone kept quiet about it. The bomb was eventually removed, I think.

I got this from Time magazine, a couple of years ago.

Think we did the same thing to them but it could not be fully poved:rolleyes:

[DoC_FouALieR]

During the Kennedy administration, there was an atom bomb in the Soviet Embassy, probably brought in in pieces through diplomatic pouches. Kennedy knew it was there, but everyone kept quiet about it. The bomb was eventually removed, I think.
Wow! That's.. crazy! This thing and others like that thing of the Russian subs setted up to look like a chinese one to deliver a nuke on Hawai, it makes me feel that we've been very lucky to survive Cold war!

[Rich]

Wow! That's.. crazy! This thing and others like that thing of the Russian subs setted up to look like a chinese one to deliver a nuke on Hawai, it makes me feel that we've been very lucky to survive Cold war!

We are lucky. Enjoy the Link. http://www.atomicarchive.com/History/coldwar/index.shtml

[KGB]

During the Cuban Missile Crisis, the Soviets ordered some submarines to run the US blockade and enter cuba, I think they were romeo class diesel subs. Anyway, they were detected and subjected to aggressive tactics, and eventually forced to surface.

By that time, the crews of the subs were at the limits of their nerves, due to the conditions and weather. At least one of the subs had a nuclear tipped torpedo in the tube; and vague instructions from their commanders regarding the rules of engagement. The commander wasn't given any clear instructions regarding whether to fire or not; yet was sent to run a blockade (which by old conventions is an act of war). The purpose of the vague instructions one can surmise was the desire of the senior brass to be able to distance himself from any blame whatever the outcome. The sub commander though had to decide between surfacing in front of the USN which was nearly like surrender and possibly punishable, or firing the nuclear torpedo.

Anyway, the situation resulted in a confused, stressed out commander pointing a nuclear torpedo at a US task force with no oversight. We are lucky he had the courage to not start ww3.

I got this from "Rising Tide"

[gf0012-aust]

Actually, I think you'll find that all 5 subs had 1 nuke each. all but one sub was intercepted and that the ASW Group had orders to sink them as soon as they showed any sign of aggression. The russian sub commanders had also been given a weapons free directive. Its interesting to note that the ruissian commander interviewed made it quite clear that he had no desire to launch a nuke torpedo at his particular ASW group as he knew it would start WW3.

What he didn't know - and what all the russian commanders never knew was that the 5 USN ASW hunter killer groups had followed all the subs across the atlantic. As it turns out that was due to the fact that the US had also tapped the Northern Fleet seabed communication cables in some parts. (probably by the USS Parches predecessor)

During the Cuban Missile Crisis, the Soviets ordered some submarines to run the US blockade and enter cuba, I think they were romeo class diesel subs. Anyway, they were detected and subjected to aggressive tactics, and eventually forced to surface.

By that time, the crews of the subs were at the limits of their nerves, due to the conditions and weather. At least one of the subs had a nuclear tipped torpedo in the tube; and vague instructions from their commanders regarding the rules of engagement. The commander wasn't given any clear instructions regarding whether to fire or not; yet was sent to run a blockade (which by old conventions is an act of war). The purpose of the vague instructions one can surmise was the desire of the senior brass to be able to distance himself from any blame whatever the outcome. The sub commander though had to decide between surfacing in front of the USN which was nearly like surrender and possibly punishable, or firing the nuclear torpedo.

Anyway, the situation resulted in a confused, stressed out commander pointing a nuclear torpedo at a US task force with no oversight. We are lucky he had the courage to not start ww3.

I got this from "Rising Tide"

[Tasman]

We are lucky. Enjoy the Link. http://www.atomicarchive.com/History/coldwar/index.shtml

Thanks for this link Rich - lots of interesting reading to wade through as winter approaches downunder.

I grew up in the 50s and 60s and we always felt pretty safe in Australia. In hindsight though, nowhere would have been safe if nuclear war between the USSR and the USA had started and it perhaps needed only one silly action or mistake for it to actually happen. The posts by KGB and gf show just how close we were from one error of judgement causing disaster.

Cheers

[metro]

I'm not angry - I just get a tad frustrated when throw away comments are made.

Apart from my prev comments there are other realities here.


Military aircraft over civil controled airspace are "hot" - ie they emit "normally". hence thats why the rapier tracked the aircraft - it was lit up like a normal emitting aircraft and could be easily tracked
The USAF is not going to bring its primary LO platform into open sky and open area flying space and have it "emission negative". Its dumb, it achieves nothing and its an opportunity for any other interrogating system to pick up aircraft characteristics when emission managed - something they won't do.


So, if i might have "mistakenly locked on" to a B-2 with my-first-sony handy-cam (with built in IR, plus an external IR) which was flying at an airshow near my house, i don't need to keep my special filming techniques classified anymore (...if my film exists anyway)? :confused:



I tried to give you examples of how difficult it was for a fully war alert battlespace to pick up a first generation stealth platform. The B2 is an order of magnitude better than an F-117. The Saudi sensor system at their AFB in Southern Saudi Arabia was an order of magnitude more powerful than anything that a rapier unit could hope to achieve.
Stealth aircraft on combat missions are given restricted corridors to fly in - thats so other aircraft don't smack into them by accident because they can't sense them

Could this, "restricted corridor" concept, explain the "lucky shot concept..." or at least what can happen when an F-117 flies down the same "lane," everynight, and is at the exact same spot everynight, at exactly 8:37PM in the Balkins?;)


Just Playing!

RE:OP
I think the question is valid. Iran has become a Russian playground. I believe that US Congress knew as early as (perhaps this is when USINTEL saw the first test) 1994-5 that Russia had sold the "blueprints" for the SS-4 Missile (Shihab-4) to Iran. Why would Iran want a missile that can hit anywhere in Europe, when their most distant "threat" is Israel?

Iran knows the immediate response it would get from Israel if any of those mssiles have a trajectory that hints at flying towards tel-aviv (2 nukes land and Israel is done), but what if a couple missles were launched at the UK from Iran(let's just say that Russian/Iranian Kilo Class Subs, cannot carry a SLBMs)?

-Does the US turn Iran into glass?
-Does NATO respond by turning Iran into Glass?
-Does anyone: Russia, China, Europe, US, stop the UK from responding?

Iran "proves" she's not deterrable--not afraid of suicide--but they will threaten the saudis, Iraq, and the rest of the Gulf (oil) if... retaliated against.

-Everyone buying Russian Oil? I'm not so sure about that?!?!:confused:

how would states' react?

-As for suitcase nukes; I just don't think the Russians are that dumb (good prpaganda though). Any "agent" walking around with a nuke could get nervous and "double back" home!

[metro]

I'm not angry - I just get a tad frustrated when throw away comments are made.

Apart from my prev comments there are other realities here.


Military aircraft over civil controled airspace are "hot" - ie they emit "normally". hence thats why the rapier tracked the aircraft - it was lit up like a normal emitting aircraft and could be easily tracked
The USAF is not going to bring its primary LO platform into open sky and open area flying space and have it "emission negative". Its dumb, it achieves nothing and its an opportunity for any other interrogating system to pick up aircraft characteristics when emission managed - something they won't do.


So, if i might have "mistakenly locked on" to a B-2 with my-first-sony handy-cam (with built in IR, plus an external IR) which was flying at an airshow near my house, i don't need to keep my special filming techniques classified anymore (...if my film exists anyway)? :confused:



I tried to give you examples of how difficult it was for a fully war alert battlespace to pick up a first generation stealth platform. The B2 is an order of magnitude better than an F-117. The Saudi sensor system at their AFB in Southern Saudi Arabia was an order of magnitude more powerful than anything that a rapier unit could hope to achieve.
Stealth aircraft on combat missions are given restricted corridors to fly in - thats so other aircraft don't smack into them by accident because they can't sense them

Could this, "restricted corridor" concept, explain the "lucky shot concept..." or at least what can happen when an F-117 flies down the same "lane," everynight, and is at the exact same spot everynight, at exactly 8:37PM in the Balkins?;)


Just Playing!

RE:OP
I think the question is valid. Iran has become a Russian playground. I believe that US Congress knew as early as (perhaps this is when USINTEL saw the first test) 1994-5 that Russia had sold the "blueprints" for the SS-4 Missile (Shihab-4) to Iran. Why would Iran want a missile that can hit anywhere in Europe, when their most distant "threat" is Israel?

Iran knows the immediate response it would get from Israel if any of those mssiles have a trajectory that hints at flying towards tel-aviv (2 nukes land and Israel is done), but what if a couple missles were launched at the UK from Iran(let's just say that Russian/Iranian Kilo Class Subs, cannot carry a SLBMs)?

-Does the US turn Iran into glass?
-Does NATO respond by turning Iran into Glass?
-Does anyone: Russia, China, Europe, US, stop the UK from responding?

Iran "proves" she's not deterrable--not afraid of suicide--but they will threaten the saudis, Iraq, and the rest of the Gulf (oil) if... retaliated against.

-Everyone buying Russian Oil? I'm not so sure about that?!?!:confused:

how would states' react?

-As for suitcase nukes; I just don't think the Russians are that dumb (good prpaganda though). Any "agent" walking around with a nuke could get nervous and "double back" home!

[metro]

I'm not angry - I just get a tad frustrated when throw away comments are made.

Apart from my prev comments there are other realities here.


Military aircraft over civil controled airspace are "hot" - ie they emit "normally". hence thats why the rapier tracked the aircraft - it was lit up like a normal emitting aircraft and could be easily tracked
The USAF is not going to bring its primary LO platform into open sky and open area flying space and have it "emission negative". Its dumb, it achieves nothing and its an opportunity for any other interrogating system to pick up aircraft characteristics when emission managed - something they won't do.


So, if i might have "mistakenly locked on" to a B-2 with my-first-sony handy-cam (with built in IR, plus an external IR) which was flying at an airshow near my house, i don't need to keep my special filming techniques classified anymore (...if my film exists anyway)? :confused:



I tried to give you examples of how difficult it was for a fully war alert battlespace to pick up a first generation stealth platform. The B2 is an order of magnitude better than an F-117. The Saudi sensor system at their AFB in Southern Saudi Arabia was an order of magnitude more powerful than anything that a rapier unit could hope to achieve.
Stealth aircraft on combat missions are given restricted corridors to fly in - thats so other aircraft don't smack into them by accident because they can't sense them

Could this, "restricted corridor" concept, explain the "lucky shot concept..." or at least what can happen when an F-117 flies down the same "lane," everynight, and is at the exact same spot everynight, at exactly 8:37PM in the Balkins?;)


Just Playing!

RE:OP
I think the question is valid. Iran has become a Russian playground. I believe that US Congress knew as early as (perhaps this is when USINTEL saw the first test) 1994-5 that Russia had sold the "blueprints" for the SS-4 Missile (Shihab-4) to Iran. Why would Iran want a missile that can hit anywhere in Europe, when their most distant "threat" is Israel?

Iran knows the immediate response it would get from Israel if any of those mssiles have a trajectory that hints at flying towards tel-aviv (2 nukes land and Israel is done), but what if a couple missles were launched at the UK from Iran(let's just say that Russian/Iranian Kilo Class Subs, cannot carry a SLBMs)?

-Does the US turn Iran into glass?
-Does NATO respond by turning Iran into Glass?
-Does anyone: Russia, China, Europe, US, stop the UK from responding?

Iran "proves" she's not deterrable--not afraid of suicide--but they will threaten the saudis, Iraq, and the rest of the Gulf (oil) if... retaliated against.

-Everyone buying Russian Oil? I'm not so sure about that?!?!:confused:

how would states' react?

-As for suitcase nukes; I just don't think the Russians are that dumb (good prpaganda though). Any "agent" walking around with a nuke could get nervous and "double back" home!

[metro]

I'm not angry - I just get a tad frustrated when throw away comments are made.

Apart from my prev comments there are other realities here.


Military aircraft over civil controled airspace are "hot" - ie they emit "normally". hence thats why the rapier tracked the aircraft - it was lit up like a normal emitting aircraft and could be easily tracked
The USAF is not going to bring its primary LO platform into open sky and open area flying space and have it "emission negative". Its dumb, it achieves nothing and its an opportunity for any other interrogating system to pick up aircraft characteristics when emission managed - something they won't do.


So, if i might have "mistakenly locked on" to a B-2 with my-first-sony handy-cam (with built in IR, plus an external IR) which was flying at an airshow near my house, i don't need to keep my special filming techniques classified anymore (...if my film exists anyway)? :confused:



I tried to give you examples of how difficult it was for a fully war alert battlespace to pick up a first generation stealth platform. The B2 is an order of magnitude better than an F-117. The Saudi sensor system at their AFB in Southern Saudi Arabia was an order of magnitude more powerful than anything that a rapier unit could hope to achieve.
Stealth aircraft on combat missions are given restricted corridors to fly in - thats so other aircraft don't smack into them by accident because they can't sense them

Could this, "restricted corridor" concept, explain the "lucky shot concept..." or at least what can happen when an F-117 flies down the same "lane," everynight, and is at the exact same spot everynight, at exactly 8:37PM in the Balkins?;)


Just Playing!

RE:OP
I think the question is valid. Iran has become a Russian playground. I believe that US Congress knew as early as (perhaps this is when USINTEL saw the first test) 1994-5 that Russia had sold the "blueprints" for the SS-4 Missile (Shihab-4) to Iran. Why would Iran want a missile that can hit anywhere in Europe, when their most distant "threat" is Israel?

Iran knows the immediate response it would get from Israel if any of those mssiles have a trajectory that hints at flying towards tel-aviv (2 nukes land and Israel is done), but what if a couple missles were launched at the UK from Iran(let's just say that Russian/Iranian Kilo Class Subs, cannot carry a SLBMs)?

-Does the US turn Iran into glass?
-Does NATO respond by turning Iran into Glass?
-Does anyone: Russia, China, Europe, US, stop the UK from responding?

Iran "proves" she's not deterrable--not afraid of suicide--but they will threaten the saudis, Iraq, and the rest of the Gulf (oil) if... retaliated against.

-Everyone buying Russian Oil? I'm not so sure about that?!?!:confused:

how would states' react?

-As for suitcase nukes; I just don't think the Russians are that dumb (good prpaganda though). Any "agent" walking around with a nuke could get nervous and "double back" home!

[metro]

QUOTE]I'm not angry - I just get a tad frustrated when throw away comments are made.

Apart from my prev comments there are other realities here.


Military aircraft over civil controled airspace are "hot" - ie they emit "normally". hence thats why the rapier tracked the aircraft - it was lit up like a normal emitting aircraft and could be easily tracked
The USAF is not going to bring its primary LO platform into open sky and open area flying space and have it "emission negative". Its dumb, it achieves nothing and its an opportunity for any other interrogating system to pick up aircraft characteristics when emission managed - something they won't do.
[/QUOTE]

So, if i might have "mistakenly locked on" to a B-2 with my-first-sony handy-cam (with built in IR, plus an external IR) which was flying at an airshow near my house, i don't need to keep my special filming techniques classified anymore (...if my film exists anyway)? :confused:



I tried to give you examples of how difficult it was for a fully war alert battlespace to pick up a first generation stealth platform. The B2 is an order of magnitude better than an F-117. The Saudi sensor system at their AFB in Southern Saudi Arabia was an order of magnitude more powerful than anything that a rapier unit could hope to achieve.
Stealth aircraft on combat missions are given restricted corridors to fly in - thats so other aircraft don't smack into them by accident because they can't sense them

Could this, "restricted corridor" concept, explain the "lucky shot concept..." or at least what can happen when an F-117 flies down the same "lane," everynight, and is at the exact same spot everynight, at exactly 8:37PM in the Balkins?;)


Just Playing!

RE:OP
I think the question is valid. Iran has become a Russian playground. I believe that US Congress knew as early as (perhaps this is when USINTEL saw the first test) 1994-5 that Russia had sold the "blueprints" for the SS-4 Missile (Shihab-4) to Iran. Why would Iran want a missile that can hit anywhere in Europe, when their most distant "threat" is Israel?

Iran knows the immediate response it would get from Israel if any of those missiles have a trajectory that hints at flying towards tel-aviv (2 nukes land and Israel is done), but what if a couple missles were launched at the UK from Iran(let's just say that Russian/Iranian Kilo Class Subs, cannot carry a SLBMs)?

-Does the US turn Iran into glass?
-Does NATO respond by turning Iran into Glass?
-Does anyone: Russia, China, Europe, US, stop the UK from responding?

Iran "proves" she's not deter able--not afraid of suicide--but they will threaten the saudis, Iraq, and the rest of the Gulf (oil) if... retaliated against.

-Everyone buying Russian Oil? I'm not so sure about that?!?!:confused:

how would states' react?

-As for suitcase nukes; I just don't think the Russians are that dumb (good prpaganda though). Any "agent" walking around with a nuke could get nervous and "double back" home!

[ahussains]

From which ICBM and WMD UK is worried ?

[StingrayOZ]

From which ICBM and WMD UK is worried ?

Proberly from France! Ha.. No seriously there are a number of also rans that now have or will have in the next 15 years ICBM that could possibly reach the UK.

North Korea (and who knows who they will sell that onto), Pakistan (maybe a buyer from NK), India (indigious, but west friendly), Iran (not so happy customer).

Ir signatures are a different case to radar. Given the B2 mission I wouldn't be suprised if Ir wise they aren't that black. If a B2 has flown over your house under normal war time conditions, you had better bunker down before nuclear winter sets in. Your lock may be fine for a human to see with a zooming camera, but insufficent for a missile to see.

How far away from you from the B2?

[metro]

I apologize for all the posts!:(

Proberly from France! Ha.. No seriously there are a number of also rans that now have or will have in the next 15 years ICBM that could possibly reach the UK.

North Korea (and who knows who they will sell that onto), Pakistan (maybe a buyer from NK), India (indigious, but west friendly), Iran (not so happy customer).

In the mid-1990's, a French company did have a $5B "Energy deal" with Iran. US companies can't buy/sell to foreign companies that sell certain "things" to Iran (in brief). The "French Company" wasn't going hurt itself with the US, however, President Clinton found an "exception" in the law. If the President finds it imperitive to US national security interests, he/she can use a "Presidential waiver." Clinton somehow saw it as a matter of US national security interests (he used the waiver), to allow the "Energy Deal" to go to Iran. That money helped Iran continue its payments to Russia.

Ir signatures are a different case to radar. Given the B2 mission I wouldn't be suprised if Ir wise they aren't that black. If a B2 has flown over your house under normal war time conditions, you had better bunker down before nuclear winter sets in. Your lock may be fine for a human to see with a zooming camera, but insufficent for a missile to see.
How far away from you from the B2?

I was sot of joking. Sometimes before the Superbowl, the World Series, or at some air shows, a B2 or F-117s will do a flyby. Any sony video camera (day/night/Ir), anyone that can see them can film them... It just looks like a Dark B2, contrasted against a Grainy Green background.
-If it were war time, and B2s were flying, I'd definitely try to get some film of quick "Global Warming," jump in "my bunker" and then come out to document a long winter... :)

[knightz33]

what would happen if the UK was attcked by ballistic missiles? how would we defend ourselves? would we shoot them down with intercepter aircraft? as far as im aware the UK has no anti missile system eg patriot, arrow.

Haha...well, its almost impossible to shoot down a missile with a plane. An average Ballastic missile travels at about 3.5km/s dude...thats very very very fast....Correct me if i'm wrong, well, basically, Britain defends itself by military deterrence. Furthermore, it has USA as its ally...that would give Britain the upper hand. Thus, Britain will be able to defend itself by using deterrence....Maybe the British government should start its own research on anti-ballistic missile. That would give Britain the advantage....:D