Canada prepares tank unit for Afghanistan

[PhillTaj]

http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/20060910/afghanistan_mackay_060910/20060911?hub=Canada

Canada prepares tank unit for Afghanistan
Updated Mon. Sep. 11 2006 9:13 AM ET

CTV.ca News Staff

It has been revealed that Canada is preparing to inject a major increase of troops and equipment into Afghanistan, one day after Foreign Affairs Minister Peter MacKay called for other nations to contribute more to the mission.

the Canadian Forces has asked its main tank unit to prepare 15 Leopard tanks and a 120-troop tank squadron for departure by Sept. 19.

The Globe and Mail report quotes Bob Bergen, a military expert with the Centre for Military and Strategic Studies at the University of Calgary, who spent two days watching the unit make the preparations.

Ottawa still has to set a deployment date, dependent on hitching a ride for the tanks on U.S. planes.

___________________

Word is they are going to be used for convoy protection and direct fire against cover used by insurgents. This will be the first time I believe German tanks have seen combat since WW2- not sure about kosovo though? Could be a boost to KM.

[Aussie Digger]

http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/20060910/afghanistan_mackay_060910/20060911?hub=Canada

Canada prepares tank unit for Afghanistan
Updated Mon. Sep. 11 2006 9:13 AM ET

CTV.ca News Staff

It has been revealed that Canada is preparing to inject a major increase of troops and equipment into Afghanistan, one day after Foreign Affairs Minister Peter MacKay called for other nations to contribute more to the mission.

the Canadian Forces has asked its main tank unit to prepare 15 Leopard tanks and a 120-troop tank squadron for departure by Sept. 19.

The Globe and Mail report quotes Bob Bergen, a military expert with the Centre for Military and Strategic Studies at the University of Calgary, who spent two days watching the unit make the preparations.

Ottawa still has to set a deployment date, dependent on hitching a ride for the tanks on U.S. planes.

___________________

Word is they are going to be used for convoy protection and direct fire against cover used by insurgents. This will be the first time I believe German tanks have seen combat since WW2- not sure about kosovo though? Could be a boost to KM.

Be interesting to see if the Leopards are given any "rapid" upgrades for their Afghan deployment. The alleged difficulty of upgrading the platform was one of the reasons justifying the Abrams purchase for Australia, not that I'm complaining mind you...

I wonder if the Canadian use of tanks in "The Ghan" will give their Government pause to reconsider it's decision to scrap it's tank fleet in favour of a wheeled gun system based on the LAV???

I reckon if they come under intense fire and "shrug" off a few ATGW's or RPG's they might...

[isthvan]

Be interesting to see if the Leopards are given any "rapid" upgrades for their Afghan deployment. The alleged difficulty of upgrading the platform was one of the reasons justifying the Abrams purchase for Australia, not that I'm complaining mind you...

IIRC some Canadian Leo I were upgraded to LeoC2 standard whit upgraded armor and FCS... If they send Leo to Afghanistan they will probably send upgraded examples…

[PhillTaj]

We only have a few left and we did send them through a $145 million upgrade a few years back and I SEEM to recall we have a few ERA packages avaliable but dont quote me on it.

The Army has recommended that MGS and MMEV be scrapped and a tank capability retained. The current Tory gov't was never a fan of the wheeled programs so its safe to say those two programs are dead.

[icelord]

Ottawa still has to set a deployment date, dependent on hitching a ride for the tanks on U.S. planes.


How many can u get on a C-17? same as Abrahms, one, maybe two without anything else. and how about a C-5, load capacity anyone?
They could just get a boat like most people, or a lift off the Jervis Bay from the USN>I know its called swift, but to me, Jervis bay is a more fitting title, after the fine work it did during Timor 99.
A

[Waylander]

There are pictures of the C2 in the "european armor" thread.

[Aussie Digger]

How many can u get on a C-17? same as Abrahms, one, maybe two without anything else. and how about a C-5, load capacity anyone?
They could just get a boat like most people, or a lift off the Jervis Bay from the USN>I know its called swift, but to me, Jervis bay is a more fitting title, after the fine work it did during Timor 99.
A

Er, I'm pretty sure Afghanistan's landlocked...:rolleyes:

[icelord]

Er, I'm pretty sure Afghanistan's landlocked...:rolleyes:
i'm intreged as to how the US managed to get their armour their, soemthing tells me getting an abrahms on a C-17, and flying an entire regiment would be long, expensive and a waste of time. How do they manage without a fleet of aircraft normally may i knowingly ask?

[Grand Danois]

i'm intreged as to how the US managed to get their armour their, soemthing tells me getting an abrahms on a C-17, and flying an entire regiment would be long, expensive and a waste of time. How do they manage without a fleet of aircraft normally may i knowingly ask?

Doesn't Canada have a 150 hrs/yr minimum lease of An-124 SALIS time? If they dig deep into those and perhaps bough a few hrs more, then it could be done in 7-8 flights...

(I know it may be optimistic, but worth considering ? ;))

[Aussie Digger]

i'm intreged as to how the US managed to get their armour their, soemthing tells me getting an abrahms on a C-17, and flying an entire regiment would be long, expensive and a waste of time. How do they manage without a fleet of aircraft normally may i knowingly ask?

The only US armour presently in Afghanistan is light armour (USMC LAV-25's). The Canadians are the first Country to deploy tanks there. The heaviest armour deployed to date has been 4x Dutch Pzh2000 155mm self-propelled guns which have been airlifted by USAF C-17's... :)

[icelord]

The only US armour presently in Afghanistan is light armour (USMC LAV-25's). The Canadians are the first Country to deploy tanks there. The heaviest armour deployed to date has been 4x Dutch Pzh2000 155mm self-propelled guns which have been airlifted by USAF C-17's... :)
So in 5years of fighting, the heviest armour in Afghanistan is the LAV-25s.....flown in by C-17

[Sea Toby]

The USAF has a fleet of 100 larger C-5As, and will soon finish building a fleet of 180 C-17s. Recently, Canada and Australia have acquired four C-17s towards the end of the C-17 construction run. While I am not sure about the exact number, the United Kingdom has a few C-17s as well, maybe 5, surely 4. Yes, the USAF does have a wonderful fleet of transport planes.

[Grand Danois]

The USAF has a fleet of 100 larger C-5As, and will soon finish building a fleet of 180 C-17s. Recently, Canada and Australia have acquired four C-17s towards the end of the C-17 construction run. While I am not sure about the exact number, the United Kingdom has a few C-17s as well, maybe 5, surely 4. Yes, the USAF does have a wonderful fleet of transport planes.

I know that UK will buy their 4 leased C-17's and probably buy an additional C-17. :) I thought Canada hadn't received their 4 C-17's yet, that's why I was thinking of SALIS. Especially as my impression is that all C-17's and C-5's are working overtime. ;)

NATO may acquire 4+ C-17's for a joint pool of airlift like SALIS relatively soon. It will be helpful if that happens.

[swerve]

Er, I'm pretty sure Afghanistan's landlocked...:rolleyes:

Yes, but overland transport through Pakistan is possible. Dunno if they've done it, though.

[icelord]

Yes, but overland transport through Pakistan is possible. Dunno if they've done it, though.
There is also the northern borders, Tajikistan ,Turkmenistan, Uzbekistan, which have provided staging points for NATO and other countries to send in its forces, boat to france, then train to Takka...tekeis...., turkus...? the northen country is viable, it just seems easier then asking the USAF to lease say, 5-10 as pointed out, overworking aircraft.

[Sea Toby]

Considering Canada's contribution with NORAD, rest assured the USAF will find the needed airlift Canada is requesting as quickly as possible. Some American flights may have to be delayed, but I doubt the United States will ever let Canada down.

[Grand Danois]

Considering Canada's contribution with NORAD, rest assured the USAF will find the needed airlift Canada is requesting as quickly as possible. Some American flights may have to be delayed, but I doubt the United States will ever let Canada down.

It's very obvious for Canada to let her southern neighbour help out, but why not SALIS ?

[Waylander]

As long as I know the US Army deployed a company of Abrams in the first weeks of the A-stan campaign but they redeployed them quickly after some time.

[Aussie Digger]

So in 5years of fighting, the heviest armour in Afghanistan is the LAV-25s.....flown in by C-17

Pretty much. Other countries have armour there, but they are all currently of the "light armoured" variant. Australia presently has Bushmaster IMV's there, and ASLAV's will be accompanying the PRT.

NZ has borrowed HUMVEE's with armour kits and other countries have other wheeled armoured vehicles. The Dutch SPG's are the heaviest armour in "the Ghan" in terms of weight (48 tons I believe) but they are a howitzer, not an armoured fighting vehicle.

Canada to my knowledge, is the first Country to announce a deployment of a tracker armoured fighting vehicle to Afghanistan.

[aaaditya]

i wonder how effective would a heavy main battle tank like the leopord be in the terrain of afghnistan ,which is excellent for anti tank warfare and also there are a lot of anti tank missiles(shoulder fired or tripod mounted),i believe the russian tanks realy struggled there.

i believe some thing smaller (in the 20-25 ton class),like a variant of the swedish cv90-120 light tank destroyer(weighing 25 tons and equipped with a very powerfull 120mm gun and also available as ifv or cfv variants) would be very effective in afghansitan.

[Gladius]

Canada to my knowledge, is the first Country to announce a deployment of a tracker armoured fighting vehicle to Afghanistan.

If I recall correctly, that's wrong. About IFV/APCs obviously.

The US Army deployed the M-113 in Afghanistan years ago (Anaconda Op.), I don't know if any remain there now. Also, some BV-206S are being deployed on Afghanistan by Italy, Canada, and the US Army (some time ago).

However, Canada will be the only (and first, IIRC) country with tanks deployed to suport their troops in Aghanistan, at this moment.

[scraw]

The US Army deployed the M-113 in Afghanistan years ago (Anaconda Op.)

Are you sure about that one? Reading 'Not a Good Day to Die' I don't recall any mention of M113s, nor during 18 Hours (by an Australian SAS guy that was there).

[icelord]

To my knowledge, i'm gettign 18hrs next weeks, but wasn't anaconda chinooks deploying marines into a retarded, defenceless position, with Aus SAS calling air support from the near by mountain, with no APCs involved, mainly air resources.

[Gladius]

Are you sure about that one? Reading 'Not a Good Day to Die' I don't recall any mention of M113s, nor during 18 Hours (by an Australian SAS guy that was there).

They were mentioned in many Spanish newspapers articles, quoting AP reports. But you know the journalists, and their "exact" and "always trustworthy" informations.

Still conserve some of those articles in my Hard Disc. They are of different media, from there my credit to the information. But reading them with greater care, they all quote as source "informations" of AP (Associated Press). Unfortunately, they don't refer literally those news notes of AP. Therefore I haven't be able to verify if the information is all correct or not. Or if there is a confusion (in the AP notes or in the Spanish Newspapers interpretation of those) over the canadian BV-206S of the detachment comanded by the Lt. Col. Pat Stogran. Unfortunately that type of errors is very common in the spanish media.

Thats the source of my mention of M-113.

In the other hand "icelord", during Anaconda the BV-206S (an APC) were in fact deployed by Chinooks near the Shah-I-Kot Valley to evacuation and resupply purposes. In reserve positions it's true, but they were included in the operation.

[icelord]

In the other hand "icelord", during Anaconda the BV-206S (an APC) were in fact deployed by Chinooks near the Shah-I-Kot Valley to evacuation and resupply purposes. In reserve positions it's true, but they were included in the operation.
Ahh ok, but no APC attack per say.

[Gladius]

That's right. :)

[scraw]

To my knowledge, i'm gettign 18hrs next weeks, but wasn't anaconda chinooks deploying marines into a retarded, defenceless position, with Aus SAS calling air support from the near by mountain, with no APCs involved, mainly air resources.

Not just US Marines, there was all sorts running about the place.

To be honest where they were put was less of an issue than who was picked for the job, poor appreciation of what they were getting into and completely ferked (or completely lacking) communications between commands.

But anyway, we're running well off topic.

[Waylander]

The Norwegians have CV-90 out there.