Israeli Armor

[fylr71]

Just heard that a Merkava II was destroyed by a land mine in Lebanon. I have two questions about the incident. Why would the Israelis even be using the mk.II in front line combat when they have the much more modern mk.III and mk.IV Also, aren't the Merkava's supposed to be among the best protected tanks in the world?

[TrangleC]

You can't make a tank totally protected from every direction. When you increase the anti landmine armour, that makes it heavier and you have less "free weight" for the frontal armour for example. And you can't just make it heavier and heavier because the agility will decrease and you will need more fuel.
It is always an compromise.

What makes the Merkava special is that it is the only modern MBT with the engine in the front. That gives the crew more protection from frontal attacks but at the same time makes the engine more vulnerable.
So in a way the designers of the Merkava chose to increase the survial chances of the crew by reducing the survival chances of the tank itself. That makes sense, but it shows that you just can't have everything.

[Manfred]

The way I heard it, that was no land mine, it was a massive amount of explosives buried in the road and command-detonated. Anti-tank mines are desighned to break treads, and only wiegh about 10 kg. This was much more, and no tank can survive hundreds of pounds of explosives from underneath.

It seems similar to what the Japanese did in the Pacific, burying a torpedo warhead where teh Sherman tanks were bound to go, and them blowing them sky-high.

[Scorpius]

it was a massive amount of explosives buried in the road and command-detonated.
I am not an expert on military issues but could this be called a type of IED?
maybe I am wrong .....

[Aussie Digger]

I am not an expert on military issues but could this be called a type of IED?
maybe I am wrong .....

It certainly is. ZVirtually any sort of explosive device that is not designed as a specific munition is an "IED".

[marcvs75]

i read an article about an new merkava variat: the "Namer". Is this an new heavy apc or an engeneer-tank ?

[noves]

Just heard that a Merkava II was destroyed by a land mine in Lebanon. I have two questions about the incident. Why would the Israelis even be using the mk.II in front line combat when they have the much more modern mk.III and mk.IV Also, aren't the Merkava's supposed to be among the best protected tanks in the world?


The thing is,there are no good armor tank.Every tanks have it's weakness but there's 2 weakneses that all tanks has,1}It's wheel 2}The tank under{i dont know how to said it in english so hope you guys understand:p: }About why the Israel do not send the mire advance tanks is maybe because they underastimade theire opponet or they do not want the much expensive tank to be destroy.But one thing for sure,if Merkava can be destroy by the FREEDOM FIGHTER NOT TERRORIST,that's mean any tanks can be destroy.

[Ozzy Blizzard]

FREEDOM FIGHTER NOT TERRORIST


Mate every opressive regime built on hate and intollerance once called themselves "freedom fighters". would richeous freedom fighters deliberatly attack civilians and hide behind the civilian population in the country that they've imbedded themselves in? No i think the last bit of that statement is more accurate.

P.S. watch the political talk or the WebMaster will kick your butt!!!

[merocaine]

Mate every opressive regime built on hate and intollerance once called themselves "freedom fighters". would richeous freedom fighters deliberatly attack civilians and hide behind the civilian population in the country that they've imbedded themselves in? No i think the last bit of that statement is more accurate.


watch the political talk your self dude. Sounds like the israel ministry of defence statement.

On another note a Merkava 4 was hit and diabled by what the IDF suspect was a Sagger guided missle, two of the crew were badly wounded, one lost his legs, does anyone know what the capiblities of the sagger?

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/741318.html

[TrangleC]

Funny thing is... the Israelis did pretty much the same when they took Israel, or Palestina as it was called back then, from the British.
So did all the resistance movements during the nazi occupation of Europe. It is often a hard to follow selective decision to call one group freedom fighters and the other terrorists while they are doing just the same. Usually the only way to discriminate between the two options is whether they are fighting against you/people you like, or against people you don't like. And that is pure hypocrisy.

[merocaine]

Funny thing is... the Israelis did pretty much the same when they took Israel, or Palestina as it was called back then, from the British.
So did all the resistance movements during the nazi occupation of Europe. It is often a hard to follow selective decision to call one group freedom fighters and the other terrorists while they are doing just the same. Usually the only way to discriminate between the two options is whether they are fighting against you/people you like, or against people you don't like. And that is pure hypocrisy.

I could'ent agree more, Being Irish we fought a vicious girrilla campain against the british in the 1918/21. Being of the people of course they were imbedded in the population, thats the way it is. It was'ent pretty and the British forces used terristic methods to try and break the resistance, they failed thank God. Now I live in a peaceful modern Democracy that is firmly imbedded in Europe, thanks in no small part to those "Terrorists" as the British at the called them at the time.
Now it is a totally different situation at the moment in the Lebonan, but remember if you have been invaded and colonised by a larger and stronger power it gives you a different out look on who is a terroerist and who is a freedom fighter.

Thats all i want to say on this, I dont what a flame war, and i understand why you would think like that, also i think Hezbullah brough a lot of this on them selfs and my sympathy for them is minimal at he moment.

[Ozzy Blizzard]

Funny thing is... the Israelis did pretty much the same when they took Israel, or Palestina as it was called back then, from the British.
So did all the resistance movements during the nazi occupation of Europe. It is often a hard to follow selective decision to call one group freedom fighters and the other terrorists while they are doing just the same. Usually the only way to discriminate between the two options is whether they are fighting against you/people you like, or against people you don't like. And that is pure hypocrisy.


Fair enough on the political call but i think its a bit more complx than that. Personally i draw the line between freedom fighter and terrorist on an hatefull and intollerant ideals and deliberate attacks on civilians. where the french resistance in WW2 terrorists, who only attacked political/millitary targets and simply want to regain their soverianty? Or is Al Quaida a group of freedom fighters who hate the western world and are compleatly intollerant of other religions, and now primarily attack civilians? in my opinion Hizbollah fits two of the latter criteria. They might be trieing to recliam thir land but that means the destruction of antother nation and its people. If you cant see the differance then we look at the world verry differantly.

By the way i'm no posterboy for the Isrealies. Personally I dissagree with most of their actions concerning the palistinians, and i can see the palistinian point of view. And their actions now just outline their compleat disreguard for the lebonese people who have nothing to do with their war. I just hate it when people bring up the whole terrorist/freedom fighter thing!

Sorry about keeping on this topic i just had to explain myself.

[TrangleC]

I think that is a result of the increasing invulnerability of the occupying forces. When the army that is occupying your land is so powerful that you just can't do anything against them, that leaves you with two options: Either you just give up or you attack those targets that are still vulnerable to you.

After all the people later forming Al Quaeda did fight russian soldiers and not civillians in Afghanistan first. They were able to do so because the american support gave them the abilities they needed to really engage the enemy army.

The rebels in Chechnia are just the same kind of people fighting the same enemy, but without enough support and what do they do? They start terrorist attacks against russian civilians, which never happened during the first war in Afghanistan, as far as i know.

And about the resistance forces against the Nazis... there the technological advantage of the occupiing force was not as big as it is today. Also the occupation only lasted a few years instead of decades. Who knows what the french resistance would have done after decades of occupation and an increasingly invulnerable occupation force? Do you think it is so unlikely that they would have started terrorist attacks against german civilians or french traitors some day?

When the enemy is so superiour that firing homemade rockets from some hole in the ground at the raw direction of his villages is all you could possibly do against him, then that is what you do.
Who wouldn't? Would you just give up and say: "Well, they are just better than us and deserve to occupy our land and rule us. Let's go home and just hope they won't send a bulldozzer to tear it down." ? Actually the majority of palestinians is doing just that, but naturally there are young men who don't.

I feel pity for the victims of terrorist attacks, but i can't help to understand those terrorists, because it is my nature to try to see through the eyes of others and i just don't see that i would do anything else in their situation.

[Ozzy Blizzard]

i can understand the reasoning behind terrorist attacks but i dont think that makes them right (i'm not saying you are). Any morall high ground that so called "freedom fighters" have, the name alone seems to give them that, is forfeted the moment they switch attacks to civilian targets. That might be the most effective thing to do but its still wrong. And i think an organisations motives are important. Theres a difference between fighting to regain your country and fighting out of hate for those that are different than you.

Anyway arn't we just argueing ofer semantics? Isnt a terrorist someone who uses terror in the civilian population to achieve a political goal? by that reasoning you could pretty easily define who is a terrorist.

[TrangleC]

Um... if that is the definition of a terrorist, then the Israelis are terrorists too, because the goal of their attacks are, among others, to make the civililian population to abandon the Hezbollah by terrorizing them.

Or what about the bombing attacks on german and japanese cities during WW2?
Would you call Churchill, Eisenhower and all the other allied leaders and the soldiers terrorists too?
Following your definition you would have to.

Then every single person, from the commanders and the political leadership, over the bomber pilots down to the people working in the factories building the bombers and the bombs would have been a terrorist.

Yes, we are talking about semantics because they are extremely important in this case. If we would stop calling the terrorists that way and start calling them freedom fighters, although they are fighting against us (the west), then that would certainly have a profound influence on our thinking about the matter, don't you think?

Maybe then we would think about stopping to support the corrupt dictatorships in Saudi Arabia and other countries, instead of just thinking about how we can kill as many of them as possible because they are just terrorists after all.

You have to demonize your enemy, using words, to fight a war. Because if you respect your enemy as a human being with plausible motivations then you are in danger of feeling compelled to solve the problems in a peaceful way.
That would be rather bad for the people who sell weapons and fund our politicians on our side and for the religious fanatics on the other side.

[merocaine]

hate the western world and are compleatly intollerant of other religions, and now primarily attack civilians? in my opinion Hizbollah fits two of the latter criteria.

I agree with a lot of what you have said and I also think your analysis of Hezbullah is wrong, Hezbullah Primarally attacked military targets, true they hate
Israel like Poision, but they have also negotiated with Israel for things like priosner swaps and cease fires. They are not Al Quada, they have Members of Parilement and are respected by all elements of Lebonese Socity(although a lot of them dont agree with what there doing at the moment). True they are launching unguided missle attacks on Israeli citys but the Israelies are know saints when it comes to avoiding civilians causties. Most of the Israeli dead have been soldiers this has not been the case on the other side. They have only attacked Israel during there existance(formed during the Israeli invasion of 1982), and maintain cordial relations with the Christian and sunni community in the Lebanon, is that Al Queda?
They are not a nialistic terrorist organisation, they maintain schools hosptails care centers olds age homes ect. Those are facts you can look them up if you want. I dont really care to much about the situation one way or the other, but i do feel if you dont have a strong grasp of the facts on the ground then your expectations will always be confounded. If Hezbullah do enter into a dialoge with Israel I believe they would negotate in good faith, they are not religious fanatics in the sense of some islamic groups and have always show themselfs to be quite pragmatic. Nor are the Iranian/syrian puppets. In the 1990's Hezbullah restructered them selfs in order to eliminate iranian operational command, this was done to make the organisation more excepible to the other Lebanonese religious groups. The result was near unanimaty in Lebonese socity that Hezbullah was a legitimete resistance group. Finally only Israel and the US Canada and the UK have Declared Hezbullah a terrorist organisation.
this is a Good resorse for general info
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hezbullah

[Ozzy Blizzard]

Your right that was a massive oversimplification. I guess i made my point rather badly, and to be honest i agree with you. It seems the simple words "freedom fighter" and "terrorist" seem to carry alot more baggage than thier litteral meaning. Any time anyone mentions the word freedom fighter it creates immages of the noble gurrilla fighting an evil oppressor, when in reality they can be just murdering bastards. And the word terrorist seems to mean someone who simply wants do spread hate, death and destruction on inocents in the name of some cause and can be exterminated for the good of mankind. And yes if you dissreguard all that baggage then every major combattant in world war 2 could be called terrorists. But only some could be classified as freedom fighters or a similar name. Mainly the western leaders because they, for the most part, held the moral high ground.
I think in the real world its niether black or white, but a murky shade of grey. And the fact that people on both sides use such terms, and their implied meanings, to describe themselves or their adversaries in an appropriate light means that we should all be carefull when useing them especially on this site. However IMO there is still a differance between millitant organisations fighting an opressive nation or differant nations in a real war. They all do horrible things, but thir reason for doing them and the manner in which they do it are
still important. We cant just say that making judgement one of them, and yes using the words "terrorist" or "freedom fighter", or even deciding who's right or wrong is irrelivent because both sides may have allready done so to further their own interests. Even though the western allies did some terrible things in WW2, but they were still the so called "good guy's". They represented freedom, tollerance and a liberation of conquered nations to democratically ellected goverments. The Nazi's on the other hand represented racism, hatred and german superiority, and exploited every nation the conquered and allmost exterminated an intire race of people. We cant just say that judgement lays in your point of view.

The western powers should absoloutly stop supporting corrupt monarchies such as Saudi Arabia, or iether drom the liberty and freedom act. The fact that they (or should i say we) invaded Iraq in the name or "regime change", while supporting similar regimes in other nations is rediculose. Personnal i'm glad Saddam's gone but to do it in the name of freedom is pure hipocracy.

[WebMaster]

Why is Israeli Armor thread going towards geo-political discussions on mid east? :nono

[merocaine]

He started it!:cry

[Ozzy Blizzard]

Sorry! someone mentioned freedom fighters and this is kind of where it ended up! we're playing nice? But if you want everyone to get back to the Merkava thats cool. (i was wondering when you were gonna say something):D

[WebMaster]

If you play nice, we can always have a thread on it... playing nice is the condition but in a different thread. ;) Thank you.

[Ozzy Blizzard]

I agree with a lot of what you have said and I also think your analysis of Hezbullah is wrong, Hezbullah Primarally attacked military targets, true they hate
Israel like Poision, but they have also negotiated with Israel for things like priosner swaps and cease fires. They are not Al Quada, they have Members of Parilement and are respected by all elements of Lebonese Socity(although a lot of them dont agree with what there doing at the moment). True they are launching unguided missle attacks on Israeli citys but the Israelies are know saints when it comes to avoiding civilians causties. Most of the Israeli dead have been soldiers this has not been the case on the other side. They have only attacked Israel during there existance(formed during the Israeli invasion of 1982), and maintain cordial relations with the Christian and sunni community in the Lebanon, is that Al Queda?
They are not a nialistic terrorist organisation, they maintain schools hosptails care centers olds age homes ect. Those are facts you can look them up if you want. I dont really care to much about the situation one way or the other, but i do feel if you dont have a strong grasp of the facts on the ground then your expectations will always be confounded. If Hezbullah do enter into a dialoge with Israel I believe they would negotate in good faith, they are not religious fanatics in the sense of some islamic groups and have always show themselfs to be quite pragmatic. Nor are the Iranian/syrian puppets. In the 1990's Hezbullah restructered them selfs in order to eliminate iranian operational command, this was done to make the organisation more excepible to the other Lebanonese religious groups. The result was near unanimaty in Lebonese socity that Hezbullah was a legitimete resistance group. Finally only Israel and the US Canada and the UK have Declared Hezbullah a terrorist organisation.
this is a Good resorse for general info
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hezbullah


One last thing.

Fair enough, I agree hizbollah is definately not Al Quida. they seem to be reasonable and do alot of good for the community, in some ways. However IMHO the fact that their primary goal is the destruction of the jewish state, and their large scale attacks on civillian targets (however innefective) can not be excused, whatever the justification.

[merocaine]

Agreed.

On the Makerva I thought they were the best protected tank in the world, A sagger is 1970's era tech and it cut the legs off one of the crewmen. I wonder what effect a modern anti-tank weapon would have?
I think the Israelies got sloppy fighting the Pals.

[TrangleC]

Even the best tanks remain vunerable - especially against mobility kills. You just can't build the tracks strong enough to withstand every explosion. Also the engine will remain a weak point because you can't seal it totally with armour. It needs air and an exhaust. So a simple molotov cocktail can be enough to immobilize a MBT if you bring it close enough to hit the right point.

But also simple armour penetration will remain a pretty possible thread.
After all, steel is just steel and the possibilities to make it thougher and harder are limited. You can use Uranium and you can create sandwich configurations with new ceramics, or glass fibres or other stuff, but it never will take a long time till there is a armour piercing weapon that is able to get through the new super armour.

I think the future of vehicle protection will rather be active protection systems like the russian ARENA.
(Or this here, the user named Kams pointed out in another thread:
http://www.defencetalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=5101)
So the tanks of the future might rather go the same way as war ships went decades ago. Relying to more and more sophisticated active protection systems and reducing the after all less usefull armour to a minimum in favour of agility. And of course stealth characteristics.

[noves]

Mate every opressive regime built on hate and intollerance once called themselves "freedom fighters". would richeous freedom fighters deliberatly attack civilians and hide behind the civilian population in the country that they've imbedded themselves in? No i think the last bit of that statement is more accurate.

P.S. watch the political talk or the WebMaster will kick your butt!!!

"MATE",have you read the newspaper lately?Which civilian die more,Israel or Palastine and Lubnan?The casualty in the Palestine and Lubnan side is almost 500 while the Israel,less then 50 if 'm not mistaken.About the FREEDOM FIGHTER thing,they do hide behinde civilian because they are the civilian.They take arm because the are force too by the Israel.But the Israel army,they hide behind civilian because they send the conscript army which consist of civilian.

P.S:The freedom fighters are not even an army,they just a militia and I dont
hate the Jews,I just hate Jews who support the Zionisms.

[Ozzy Blizzard]

"MATE",have you read the newspaper lately?Which civilian die more,Israel or Palastine and Lubnan?The casualty in the Palestine and Lubnan side is almost 500 while the Israel,less then 50 if 'm not mistaken.About the FREEDOM FIGHTER thing,they do hide behinde civilian because they are the civilian.They take arm because the are force too by the Israel.But the Israel army,they hide behind civilian because they send the conscript army which consist of civilian.

P.S:The freedom fighters are not even an army,they just a militia and I dont
hate the Jews,I just hate Jews who support the Zionisms.

Look we've had this conversation. if you look at my earlier posts you'll see that dont agree with manny of Isreal's actions, including their targeting of civilian inferstructure. However Hizbollah is continuing to launch artillary (katusha rockets) attacks against isreali population centres, DELIBERATLY trying to kill civillians. They are not just noble "freedom fighters" ard are baced on an ideology of hate. As for Zionism, i compleatly simpathise with the palistinian, lebonese and isreali people for the hardships they are all going through. But dont the Jews desreve a homeland too? Remember, Judea existed untill the jewish revolt under the roman empire in the 1st century AD, untill the Romans sacked jerusalem and sold the Jewish people into slavery, scattering them throughout europe. The dangers of not having a homeland can be clearly seen in what happened in WW2. So if you you want to play the "we where there first" game we could go around in circles for days. Wouldn't it be more productive for all of us to move towards the "two state solution" as the only viable alternative that wont end in massive bloodshed? Maybe we should all agree that the situation is totally f**cked up, and there's no absoloute right or wrong. So i'll make you a deal, if you dont use the word "freedom fighter' I wont use the word "terrorist', we'll both just say Hizbollah? ok?:D

[DoC_FouALieR]

A sagger is 1970's era tech and it cut the legs off one of the crewmen.
On the counterpart, a there was a Merkava who withstand 7 hits from Sagger and RPG-7, and the crew wasn't injured at all nor mobility- nor fire-kill for the tank.

[Waylander]

As always you cannot take one example as a proof for the reliability (Or the absence of it) of a vehicle.
Maybe the Sagger hit a weak point.
Maybe the RPGs were hitting strong points.
;)

[DoC_FouALieR]

But anyway, if I have to choose one tank almost all others for urban combat, it will certainly be the Merkava!

[Izzy1]

But anyway, if I have to choose one tank almost all others for urban combat, it will certainly be the Merkava!

Agreed, Israel's experience at FIBUA (Fighting In Built Up Areas) especially with armoured and mechanised formations is second to none. Merkava may not be an Abrams or a Chally 2 - but it is a very effective platform that suites Israeli tactics, doctrine and battle environment better than possibly any other option available at present.

Another example of the IDF's lessons learnt, are the myriad of APC conversions she has made from older model MBT chassis (Nemar - based on Merkava 1 conversions; Nakpadon - which are converted Centurions for example). Also note the efforts made to seriously upgrade the armour on her M-113A1/2 fleet. Interesting how Israel has preffered these options over procurring systems like the M2 Bradley - which the IDF quickly shunned back in the early 1990s.

[Waylander]

Yeah, right.
They use infantry not in the same way most NATO countrys use them. I think this is due to the fact that Israel is very small. There is just not enough space for a real mobile defence.
The Merkava is also not the a tank for mobile warfare.

[Viktor]

The way I heard it, that was no land mine, it was a massive amount of explosives buried in the road and command-detonated. Anti-tank mines are desighned to break treads, and only wiegh about 10 kg.
IED are something that cant be counter and US army in Iraq are having enourmos problems with it. I have seen pics of M1A2 without ture blown up by 300kg IED. No tank in the world has such armor to withstand ii.
Against shoulder launch weapons Russian APS Arena or Drozd-2 sistem are providing max protection as well as Israel Tropy sistem and by my opinion are mutch batter than reactive armor.In Afganistan during Soviet intervention T-55/T-60 equiped with APS Drozd-1 provided 80 percent efficienty against RPG.

[Bfn42]

[QUOTE=Viktor]IED are something that cant be counter and US army in Iraq are having enourmos problems with it. I have seen pics of M1A2 without ture blown up by 300kg IED. QUOTE]


Blown up, or disabled?

[Viktor]

Blown up, or disabled?
Blown up. I know US people dont know mutch about US losses in Iraq and gang with the power in theirs hands dont like to talk about it but if you research a little you will find numerous pics of blown up and disabeld Abrams/Bradly etc, I have even seen video of a shoot down Apache helicopter down with Igla (4 US marines lost theirs lifes). Abrams is one of the most amoured Tank in the world but is not all mighty and couple of Rpg-29 or Rpg-7 hit below turet or at side etc will penetrate it. Now 300kg IED is something - there is no such armor that can whithstand suche force. Sorry to losse video I had a link - but nevertheless it would only make you nervous and mad so perhaps it is batter this way.
(it was if I remember somewhere on ogrish.com)

[Grand Danois]

I have even seen video of a shoot down Apache helicopter down with Igla (4 US marines lost theirs lifes).


Apaches have a crew of two.


Apaches are flown by Army, not Marines.

[KGB]

Time magazine reported that a Merkava was hit by a Hezbollah missile, killing a crewman. What ATGM would this most likely be?

[merocaine]

prob a Milan or Sagger.

Question is the Milan a fire and forget weapon?

[Waylander]

No, it uses a wire so you have to remain on target till the impact.

[Grand Danois]

Kornets from the Syrian Army?

[merocaine]

...wait Syria and Iran dont seem to use MILAN, Kornet sounds more like it.
Syria might want to see how effective they are against Israeli tanks. But I'm not sure even Syria would give a non state actor their best anti tank system.

[extern]

Old video about Merkava-3's on the Gaza border. You can see the work of the loader. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uoyguOcALXs

[Waylander]

There are photos showing Hizbollah members with MILAN.
But it is pure speculation which ATGM caused the damage.

[TrangleC]

Old video about Merkava-3's on the Gaza border. You can see the work of the loader. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uoyguOcALXs
Weird. I stopped the video just at the scene when you can see the loader doing his work and i can't see any amunition storage in the back of the turret. He takes the shell from the storage in the trunk/chassis and has to do a lot of lifting to load the gun.
Is all the amunition stored in the trunk/chassis of the Merkava 3? I noticed the new turret to be leaner than the old one, but wouldn't have expected that.

That way the loader will get tired in a longer battle or drop a shell if he is tired or the tank moves roughly while he is loading, or both.

[DoC_FouALieR]

Is all the amunition stored in the trunk/chassis of the Merkava 3?
I duno for the Merkava 3, but if you look at the Merkava 4 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_T-GKplzI0k&mode=related&search=)vidéo, you will notice that the rounds are located in the turret bustle..

[brian00]

Syria had some HOT atgms from france which they used effectively againts merkavas and m60s in 1982, they could still have some left

[.pt]

Saw those merkava videos, they´re great.
2 questions:
- It´s my understanding tanks usually have 2 type of main gun ammunition, one is a penetrator round for use against other tanks, and one is HE for softer targets such as APC, infantry, bunkers or helicopters. In the video, when the loader picks up a round from the storage compartment, how does he select the type of round?
- In the video we see some explosions from what seem main gun rounds with a spectacular visual effect, like fireworks. Would that be Heat rounds, or some other type of ammunition?
.pt

[PommeDeGuerre]

.pt: I would guess the shells that explode like fireworks are white phosphorus. The shell blasts apart the WP, which burns on contact with air and produces a lot of vapour (used for a smokescreen). I guess they'd use it at night (as in the clip) to light up the battlefield.

My knowledge of such things is fairly limited though... I could be completely wrong.

[Waylander]

Do you mean the black and white scene with the explosions?
They look at the impacts with a thermal imager. Even training ammunition looks big through a TI.

If you have an autoloader (T-series) or a semi-autoloader lie in the Merkavas you just push the button for the right ammo.
If you have a human loader you just make an X or so on one of the round types.

[extern]

That way the loader will get tired in a longer battle or drop a shell if he is tired or the tank moves roughly while he is loading, or both.
I cant agree with you more, TrangleC. Indeed, this method of loading I hardly can specify as effective in the condition of quick moving on the stony ground.

I duno for the Merkava 3, but if you look at the Merkava 4 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_T-GKplzI0k&mode=related&search=)vidéo, you will notice that the rounds are located in the turret bustle..
For cummulative spout or DU APFSD sabot that penetrates the 900+ mm armor it is not important at all, has Merkava its rounds in the turret bustle or not. The only thing important for hitting probability - is the area of cross-section. Bcoz Merkava has bigger armory that any T-xx, the probability of meeting its armory with the incoming cummulative jet is higher.

[PommeDeGuerre]

Waylander: I just flipped through the Merkava 4 video to about 3:39. It just looks like normal video to me, although I guess there's probably not nearly enough smoke for WP... looks like a bunch of sparks falling. Would that just be some sort of training round then?

[Waylander]

Ups, my mistake. I looked at the first video.
The explosions you mean are no main rounds they are from the smoke dischargers. There are two types of smoke normally used on tanks. Normal smoke grenades and thermal smoke grenades. The second ones are also working against TIs.
Just seconds after the first explosion you can see the same picture through a TI.

[extern]

Ups, my mistake. I looked at the first video.
The explosions you mean are no main rounds they are from the smoke dischargers.
Like those on the picture: