SAS seaplanes and LUH's

[gf0012-aust]

Australia may seek seaplanes for special forces

By Peter La Franchi in Canberra

Australia may buy dedicated special forces light utility helicopters and seaplanes as part of revised plans for its Joint Project 2097 “Redfin” special operations upgrade project.

JP 2097 officials told a closed-door industry briefing in Canberra on 22 June that, while the immediate focus of the project would be on new vehicles, emerging special forces needs also emphasise force projection capabilities with aerospace solutions forming a major part of the requirements.

Australia’s revised 10-year defence capability plan, released last month, contained a JP 2097 funding allocation worth A$350-450 million ($260-330 million) with this due to receive government approval by mid-2008. The new equipment is required to enter service in 2010-11.

The JP 2097 industry briefing was told the proposed force projection capabilities now being examined by the project include air-to-air refuelling for selected Australian Defence Force helicopter types and new light utility helicopters.

The project is also working on requirements for a dedicated “maritime insertion system” comprising either specialised long-range small to medium surface craft, or seaplanes.

Development of the special forces reconnaissance capabilities may also necessitate additional tactical unmanned air vehicle acquisitions to augment the existing Aerovironment Raven and Elbit Skylark systems already purchased by Australia.

http://www.flightglobal.com (http://www.flightglobal.com/Articles/2006/07/11/Navigation/190/207740/Australia+may+seek+seaplanes+for+special+forces.ht ml)

Hmmm, a suggestion was made about 5 years ago for consideration for SeaPlanes for Customs/AQUIS work in north western australia - looks like its moved beyond that.

[Magoo]

I think the LUHs are a probability, possibly with funding from AIR 9000 Phase 7B and from Redfin combined.

Can't say that I can imagine seaplanes being high on the list of priorities though! Besides, what would they get...? CL-415? Cessna Caravan? DHC Beaver??? Would be a pretty limited-use capability!

It's more likely to be a helo with an amphibious capability, i.e. a conventional helo with floats.

Magoo

[old faithful]

Paspaley pearls has its own fleet of aircraft under the name of pearl aviation. The model of the aircraft escapes me, but it is a carabou sized (and vintage!) twin engined seaplane. I have sat in these things for hours. they are modified with turbo prop engines,gps etc and are a very rugged and versitile aircraft. Very short take off and landing ability.Pas pearls farms are located in remote areas of the NT and W.A. The facilities in these locations are good.Refueling,maintenance ,food and water. Nor Force visits most farms on a yearly basis and no doubt these aircraft have been assessed by DOD.the range of these planes and the flexibility of being able to land on water would be a huge asset to any SF unit.

[gf0012-aust]

Paspaley pearls has its own fleet of aircraft under the name of pearl aviation. The model of the aircraft escapes me, but it is a carabou sized (and vintage!) twin engined seaplane. I have sat in these things for hours. they are modified with turbo prop engines,gps etc and are a very rugged and versitile aircraft. Very short take off and landing ability.Pas pearls farms are located in remote areas of the NT and W.A. The facilities in these locations are good.Refueling,maintenance ,food and water. Nor Force visits most farms on a yearly basis and no doubt these aircraft have been assessed by DOD.the range of these planes and the flexibility of being able to land on water would be a huge asset to any SF unit.

When I was based in darwin in the late 70's there was a Catalina flying boat that used to do the coast watch rounds. It was still fitted it with a degaussing ring for remote detonation of sea mines.

She seemed to tale foreverrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr to take off. ;)

[old faithful]

ha ha ha! no,there not catalinas.....really cant remember the model....there are old,but with the turbo props are very reliable,not fast.I know of one case where the landing gear failed and the pilot put her down on her belly on the grass beside the runway at darwin airport!minimal damage.I have some pics of one landing on the coburg peninsular.(safly!) they or something similar would truley be an asset to the SF,and perhaps RAN? Pearl AV has three and works them to the bone!

[gf0012-aust]

ha ha ha! no,there not catalinas.....really cant remember the model....there are old,but with the turbo props are very reliable,not fast.I know of one case where the landing gear failed and the pilot put her down on her belly on the grass beside the runway at darwin airport!minimal damage.I have some pics of one landing on the coburg peninsular.(safly!) they or something similar would truley be an asset to the SF,and perhaps RAN? Pearl AV has three and works them to the bone!

They're not Grumman Goose, or Albatross? There are a couple of smaller ones I've seen that were based around Barwon Heads when I lived in Sydney - they would have been ideal small team inserters. These double dutied as water taxis to some restaurant that was near paul keatings island house (can't remember the name of the restaurant though!)

[old faithful]

will definatly find out after work...(ah,thats what im doing now!work!);)

[gf0012-aust]

will definatly find out after work...(ah,thats what im doing now!work!);)

I'm wondering whether its the canadair cl-215? are they australian registred or are they "N" prefixed registrations?

[old faithful]

they are definately Mallards....grummen? i think so,they are heavily modified,a bit like buying dirty old seasprites and doing `em up!;)

[Cootamundra]

They're not Grumman Goose, or Albatross? There are a couple of smaller ones I've seen that were based around Barwon Heads when I lived in Sydney - they would have been ideal small team inserters. These double dutied as water taxis to some restaurant that was near paul keatings island house (can't remember the name of the restaurant though!)

Either Berowra Waters or down at Cottage Point (in the Pittwater National Park). Both are lovely restuarants or more likely were as BW has closed its doors:)

[WaterBoy]

Pearl aviation probably use a Grumman 'Turbo' Mallard conversion. This is the same type as used by Chalk aviation in Miami, which are currently grounded following a catastrophic inflight wing failure. The little ones used as air taxis are either the ubiquitous DeHavilland Beaver, Maule or Cessna floatplanes, or a Lake Buccaneer (floating hull & engine on top).

Also iirc the Chinook is amphibious, just that nobody likes washing it afterwards!
:D

[icelord]

A helo would be the more viable option, as it would increase the number of avail. to 171 Aviation Squadron. A seaplane would be of little versitility and would only be used in rare if ever occasions. It has little in the way of ability to be used if an Op was conducted inland, where a caribou would be handy, and the whole process of insertion and retrieval would be difficult. do-able, but difficult.

[Whiskyjack]

I know that I am going to cop some flak for this and I will wash my mouth out with soap, but would the Osprey be considered?

I realise that the cost is just up above the US$100m each, but it would seem to be a solution.

[icelord]

I know that I am going to cop some flak for this and I will wash my mouth out with soap, but would the Osprey be considered?

I realise that the cost is just up above the US$100m each, but it would seem to be a solution.
~smack~ u needed it:D

Give it maybe 5-10years of service, once the 'rest' of the bugs have been worked out. only the marines have them at present, even the US SOCOM is cautious, as well as the US Army and USAF.

The idea is good. The osprey would do well in service, if we went with the brochure. The history that comes with it, could cause some concern within the special forces community, but after a bit of wear and tear it could even be seen as a replacment for the caribou

[Whiskyjack]

~smack~ u needed it:D

Give it maybe 5-10years of service, once the 'rest' of the bugs have been worked out. only the marines have them at present, even the US SOCOM is cautious, as well as the US Army and USAF.

The idea is good. The osprey would do well in service, if we went with the brochure. The history that comes with it, could cause some concern within the special forces community, but after a bit of wear and tear it could even be seen as a replacment for the caribou

Just looking at time frames.

My understanding is that the USMC will deploy the first Osprey unit to Iraq next year. If that is the case them IMO one operational combat tour is probably worth 2-3 years normal operational service when evaluating performance.

Does not help with cost tho.:D