indian small arms thread .

[aaaditya]

hey guys iam creating this thread so that we can post any images and specifications of indian weapons(indigenously developed as well as jointly developed),so that this thread can be used as a source of refence as well as for discussion and comparison.

here check out this link:

http://ofbindia.gov.in/products/data/weapons/wsc/24.htm

the weapon displayed here is the minsas 5.56mm personnel carbine a derivative of the insas assault rifle.

http://ofbindia.gov.in/products/data/weapons/wsc/23.htm

the insas excalibur mk1 is the latest version of the insas assault rifle developed for the paramillitary forces.

[aaaditya]

this is the vidhwanshak multi caliber anti material rifle (a reverse engineered version of the denel truvello and mechem rifles).

Anti Material Rifle VIDHWANSAK

•Multi Calibre – 12.7 mm, 14.5 mm & 20 mm
•Anti Material Weapon up to the range of 2000 metres
•Manual Bolt Action
•Magazine Feed
•One Minute Change of Calibre (12.7 mm or 14.5 mm or 20 mm)
•Easily carried by Two Men Specifications- 12.7/14.5/20 MM
Ammunition 12.7 × 107 mm 14.5 × 114 mm 20 × 82 mm Weight
25 kg
29 kg
26 kg
Overall Length
1.7 m
2.015 m
1.795 m
Barrel
8 Grooved, 1.1 m length, Quick Change type
8 Grooved, 1.22 m Length, Quick Change type
8 Grooved, 1 m Length, Quick Change Type
Pitch of Rifle
1: 390 mm
1 : 420 mm
1 : 560 mm

Sights

8 X 42 Power Telescopic Sight with Parallax adjustment
8 X 42 Power Telescopic Sight with Parallax adjustment
8 X 42 Power Telescopic Sight with Parallax adjustment
Muzzle Velocity
845 m/s
1,080 m/s
720 m/s
Range
1,800 m
1,800 m
1,300 m

[aaaditya]

this weapon is known as the 38mm multi shot anti riot gun:

http://ofbindia.gov.in/products/data/weapons/wsc/22.htm

http://ofbindia.gov.in/products/data/weapons/wsc/25.htm

the zitara carbine is based on the tavor and most probably is jointly developed with israel.this is ambidextrous weapon.

http://ofbindia.gov.in/products/data/weapons/wsc/6.htm

this is a 12 bore pump action shot gun.

http://ofbindia.gov.in/products/data/weapons/wlc/4.htm

this is the indo-israeli metamorphosis gun which is an upgrade of the existing 130mm guns.

[dabrownguy]

Great OFB updated their site. But did you need to start a new thread?:rolleyes:

[nuke_em]

thank you for ADDING THIS THREAD aadithya, umm why did the indian army purchase tar 21s instead of the zittarra and is the pump shotty and the excalibur operational or are they still prototypes. keep me posted and dabrownguy should read some rules

[suryaaa]

aaditya good job there ,but you forget to post info about insas .

[aaaditya]

thank you for ADDING THIS THREAD aadithya, umm why did the indian army purchase tar 21s instead of the zittarra and is the pump shotty and the excalibur operational or are they still prototypes. keep me posted and dabrownguy should read some rules

i dont know about the shot gun,but the excalibur is in service.

the zittara ia a variant based on the tavaor2 and is coproduced with israel.

[dabrownguy]

You got a source that says Excalibur is in service or are you just assuming.

[powerslavenegi]

I was really impressed with the website,however would like to know how the Excaliber Mk1 would compare with HecK. & Koch G-36,M-16 and Galil.Moreover honestly INSAS is a Hybrid between SLR and the AK-47/AK-74

[aaaditya]

You got a source that says Excalibur is in service or are you just assuming.

i dont have any particular source ,though i have seen troops flunting this rifle on the gettyimages(indians as well as nepalis),also i have seen images of nepali maoists using the insas assault rifles(most probably captured from the nepali troops),in real life i have also seen soldiers of the punjab regiment with the excalibur ,besides the insas seems to be quite common with the paramillitary forces(if you travel to any airport in india or a railway station you would see the cisf soldiers brandishing the insas).

the insas is also in service with the navy and the garud commando force (of the airforce).

[aaaditya]

well here is the link from which i got these information you just have to click one the one that you are interested.

http://ofbindia.gov.in/index.php?wh=Weapons

also check out the taimur aifv concept based on the t55.

[nuke_em]

your right i myslef have seen the industrial forces in the airports but he carried SLR, can u show the getty images and nepal bought insas rifles for cheap from India right?

[aaaditya]

your right i myslef have seen the industrial forces in the airports but he carried SLR, can u show the getty images and nepal bought insas rifles for cheap from India right?

well iam sure you can google for them.it has been quite sometime since i saw those images.you can recognise the weapon by its buttstock,also in some cases the excalibur can be seen with a flat fore grip instead of the usual insas type of foregrip.

[aaaditya]

I was really impressed with the website,however would like to know how the Excaliber Mk1 would compare with HecK. & Koch G-36,M-16 and Galil.Moreover honestly INSAS is a Hybrid between SLR and the AK-47/AK-74

you can cosider this weapon to be between the g36,tavor and the ak series and the g3.

i believe it has also derived some influence from the g3.

in my opinion the insas is intended as a low cost rugged weapon ,more accurate than the ak series,but definitely not intended to be as expensive the hk-g36 or the tavor,you can see that from its conventional design rather than the bullpup design.

early variants of insas had only iron sight,it is only the later versions and the excalibur that have the israeli mars sight(also used on the tavor).

[nuke_em]

you can cosider this weapon to be between the g36,tavor and the ak series and the g3.

i believe it has also derived some influence from the g3.

in my opinion the insas is intended as a low cost rugged weapon ,more accurate than the ak series,but definitely not intended to be as expensive the hk-g36 or the tavor,you can see that from its conventional design rather than the bullpup design.

early variants of insas had only iron sight,it is only the later versions and the excalibur that have the israeli mars sight(also used on the tavor).
In some book si have read about firearms it stated that the INSAS rifle also finds some of its origins in the M-16, i think it might have meant interior obvoiusly the guns dont look alike. I would also liek to comment on the fact that recently i have been noticing more and more articles(some nepali) on the flaws of the INSAS. Nepal says that the guns INdia exported were faulty, but India says that the guns have been in service with India and has served its purpose smoothly. Nepal says that their INSAS were getting extremely hot therefore they had to wait for them to cool. I dont think blaming the gun will hide the fact that probably Nepali soldiers havent been taught to utilize the INSAS properly.

[aaaditya]

In some book si have read about firearms it stated that the INSAS rifle also finds some of its origins in the M-16, i think it might have meant interior obvoiusly the guns dont look alike. I would also liek to comment on the fact that recently i have been noticing more and more articles(some nepali) on the flaws of the INSAS. Nepal says that the guns INdia exported were faulty, but India says that the guns have been in service with India and has served its purpose smoothly. Nepal says that their INSAS were getting extremely hot therefore they had to wait for them to cool. I dont think blaming the gun will hide the fact that probably Nepali soldiers havent been taught to utilize the INSAS properly.

any weapon system will overheat and malfunction if used non stop for long durations.besides nepal these weapons are also used by the nepali rebels(captured from their soldiers) and the bhutanis.

[parm]

any weapon system will overheat and malfunction if used non stop for long durations.besides nepal these weapons are also used by the nepali rebels(captured from their soldiers) and the bhutanis.

complete waste on time and money on INSAS. question is why indian army imported east european AKs after inducting INSAS in the army? answer is that INSAS dont perform as they are suppose to. DRDO should be shut down.

being an indian im totally disgusted by what DRDO is doing!

[powerslavenegi]

complete waste on time and money on INSAS. question is why indian army imported east european AKs after inducting INSAS in the army? answer is that INSAS dont perform as they are suppose to. DRDO should be shut down.

being an indian im totally disgusted by what DRDO is doing!

INSAS is inducted and well recieved by the Army,it's a misconception that AK's were bought because INSAS did not perform.Infact in counter insurgency ops and guerilla WF IA needed a gun with a fast rate of fire and high calibre munitions and hence they equipped their J&K based counter Insurgency troops with Ak's.It is also been speculated that OFB imported forging,and other precision equipment from Aug-Styer for manufacturing INSAS.The INSAS specs are available on-line the only problem it has been plagued with is splitting or breaking of magazine casing.

[aaaditya]

ak's were acquired since the indian army could not get the insas in sufficient quantities ,however that problem has now been rectified,indian army currently use in excess of 300000 insas rifles which are to be replaced by the excalibur.

[Archer]

complete waste on time and money on INSAS. question is why indian army imported east european AKs after inducting INSAS in the army? answer is that INSAS dont perform as they are suppose to. DRDO should be shut down.

being an indian im totally disgusted by what DRDO is doing!


You are talking BS. The Army just placed another huge order for INSAS, ask any guy in procurement if you know any.

The Aks were inducted for three reasons:
1. Ammo for INSAS was unavailable, delaying its induction in units a few years back, till the ammo plants started churning out ammo
2. In COIN, troops prefer volume of fire, which Ak has (auto mode, vs Insas's 3 round burst)
3. Ammo is not a concern in COIN (ready lines of supply), nor is accuracy- most of the engagements occur at CQB scenarios (close quarter battle).

For the above, Aks are present in COIN dedicated units- Rashtriya rifles and the like. The other units tasked with regular ops, all use INSAS.

[aaaditya]

hey guys india nad germany have signed the defence cooperation agreement,is there any chance for the indian ordinance factories board to acquire german small arms technology?

here check out this link:

http://www.outlookindia.com/pti_news.asp?gid=73

Paving the way for bilateral strategic and security cooperation, India and Germany have signed their first-ever defence pact encompassing joint training, technology transfers and co-production of hi-tech military hardware.

The Indo-German Defence Cooperation agreement, which would help New Delhi broadbase its military equipment suppliers to make arms purchases more competitive, was signed late last night here by Defence Minister Pranab Mukherjee and his German Counterpart Franz Josef Jung.

Though both the leaders refused to elaborate what areas of defence the agreement was aimed at, Jung said it would mostly cover exchange of cooperation in the field of Navy and in electronic and sureviellance systems, in which Germany recently had made big breakthroughs.

German defence industries are keen on participating in major Indian defence projects as they feel Berlin is being left out in the race for Indian defence markets by countries like France and Britain.

Germany is also keen to tap Indian expertise in counter terrorism operations, as recently the German army is being deployed overseas in such operations.

Answering a volley of queries from newsmen after the signing of the pact, Mukherjee said the agreement, which comes into force immediately, provides for setting up of a high defence committee which would work out the areas of cooperation between the two countries.

[parm]

You are talking BS. The Army just placed another huge order for INSAS, ask any guy in procurement if you know any.

The Aks were inducted for three reasons:
1. Ammo for INSAS was unavailable, delaying its induction in units a few years back, till the ammo plants started churning out ammo
2. In COIN, troops prefer volume of fire, which Ak has (auto mode, vs Insas's 3 round burst)
3. Ammo is not a concern in COIN (ready lines of supply), nor is accuracy- most of the engagements occur at CQB scenarios (close quarter battle).

For the above, Aks are present in COIN dedicated units- Rashtriya rifles and the like. The other units tasked with regular ops, all use INSAS.

1.well if INSAS cant perform in COIN, why was it made in the first place and inducted into IA? i think they forgot india has insurgency!!
2.if INSAS is home made, did they forget to make ammo for it?
3. why have two or three different kinds of guns in the IA as there can be wrong ammo goin to wrong units in time of a war?

why NATO standardised there ammo? i guess now u know!

looks like indian ordinance factories work with absent minded peaple, after all its a GOVT department!!
looks like ministers or top officials sitting in higher posts dont care about the IA jawan putting his life on risk for his country and all they come up with is a remix version of AK, GALIL and FAL to make INSAS!!!

[Archer]

1.well if INSAS cant perform in COIN, why was it made in the first place and inducted into IA? i think they forgot india has insurgency!!

It was made for the Indian Armys GQSR for a BATTLE RIFLE. Which insisted on a 3 round mode for ammunition conservation. During trials at Mhow, and based upon their experience in Sri Lanka, the IA determined that a rifle at full auto was practically f**k all in terms of accuracy, and soldiers would often squeeze off entire mags without realizing it. However in COIN ammunition resupply is NOT a problem, nor is accuracy (beyond 150 mtrs) an issue. Most engagements occur at relatively close range where the inaccuracy of the Ak does not matter, or for that matter its weight (ammo & multiple mags).

2.if INSAS is home made, did they forget to make ammo for it?

Do you have a problem reading? The Ammunition factory didnt come from the sky. It had to be set up, the production had to be tested for consistency. In the meanwhile, the IA imported Aks.

3. why have two or three different kinds of guns in the IA as there can be wrong ammo goin to wrong units in time of a war?

Again, the INSAS is the battle rifle. And the IA has well earmarked lines of ammunition for supply and deployment. They deal with this on a daily basis.

why NATO standardised there ammo? i guess now u know!

Without you, the IA would not have known anything! Thank the Almighty!

looks like indian ordinance factories work with absent minded peaple, after all its a GOVT department!!
looks like ministers or top officials sitting in higher posts dont care about the IA jawan putting his life on risk for his country and all they come up with is a remix version of AK, GALIL and FAL to make INSAS!!!

Do you actually have any sense or just like to talk rubbish for the heck of it? Perhaps you are going through the "lets rant for rantings sake" phase! How many rifles have you designed btw? :rolleyes:

[aaaditya]

also it was the first time that indian army was using the 5.56 caliber ,it used the 7.62 earlier.the production technology was acquired from belgium for the nato standard ss109 rounds,for the earlier insas guns(used during the kargil war for trials) the ammo was imported from belgium,once the production facilities were set up there was no problem in acquiring these rounds or the guns.